O.K. Fess Up. Come Clean. Sing Like A Canary.

In the last several days I have gotten myself involved in a couple of threads regarding lifting (or forgetting about lifting) the stylus at the end of play. One individual was considering getting rid of his existing turntable, and replacing it with an older semi-automatic model.

He considered himself "lazy & forgetful".

Another individual was very upset with himself because he allowed himself to forget about the stylus for "20-30 minutes" after play.

He considered himself a "moron".

Am I another "lazy and forgetful moron"? Or is this just something that happens on occasion when you choose to endure the world of analog?

As of late, this does not happen to me anymore. I installed a "lifter". Problem solved. But before this point?

I can recall sometime back, arriving home after a weekend in Manhattan with my better half. It was Sunday evening about 11:00pm. We had left the previous Friday evening. We walked through the front door, I put down the bags and noticed something out of the corner of my eye. I looked over at my stereo and exclaimed "Uh-Oh".

Needless to say, I turned on the lights, walked over to the stereo, and as I looked down at the turntable (my head now spinning in a circular motion in unison with the rotating LP), had realized that this phenomenon had been in occurence over the last 50 hours or so.

I then cued the stylus, placed the tonearm on it's rest, turned off the turntable in disgust, sighed, and silently acknowledged the fact my NEW $800.00 Grado was toast.

Alright. I admit it. I can and did admit to such a mistake. Well, the word "mistake" sound a little extreme. Let's call it an "inopportune loss of mental focus". Now..... Let's see who else will step up to the plate.

What is the longest period of time that you have forgotten your stylus in the "rotating circle of death"?
I have never done this with any of my current TT's. Having said that, i did nod off briefly ( 10 - 20 minutes ) with music playing on older fully manual TT's that i used to own many years ago. After coming to and realizing why i was hearing that sound coming out of the speakers, you can bet that i was wide awake and sprinting for the tonearm : )

As a side note, this is what happens when you get used to the "convenience" of digital. Those damn little discs make it all to easy to go about your business and forget all about "vinyl responsibilities" when playing records. The added "convenience" of digital discs is probably to blame for the lack of exercise and extra weight that most audiophiles are now carrying with them as compared to when they were younger. I just KNOW that's what did it to ME : ) Sean

Do they make record players with Sleep Timers like on TV's.

You know what I'm talking about. You flip the TV on, set the timer for 45 minutes, and if you nod out, or by chance get LUCKY with your SIGNIFICANT OTHER, the TV shuts off automatically by it's self in 45 minutes?

With that said, I would like to mention for the record, that Buscis2 is my closest friend, lives about 8 miles away, and has been hanging tuff since 1972, same year I started dating the General (my wife Gloria) Both have endured the test of time, why I'm not sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never have done this, but I can certainly understand how it could happen. I grew up with a TT and trained myself long ago not to let the needle ride the lead out groove to the bitter end. Even if I nod off during a LP side I am awakened as soon as the music stops at the end. I also never leave the TT cover on while I spin and never finish a session without putting the cover back on, turning off my phono stage and hitting the standby button on my pre. This has become my ritual and the reverse of this procedure is how I start a listening session.

Buscis2, how does your lift sound when it makes contact with the tonearm? I have never used one but I have thought about adding one as insurance. I have heard from some users that there can be a loud thump when the lift comes up and makes contact with the arm.
Teres turntables are equipped with a timer in the motor controller which automatically shuts off the motor after 45 minutes, if you have not changed records or shut the TT off within that time period. With the Teres, there is no possibility that long-term overplay will happen. After the typical 25-30 minutes of one LP side, there would be about 15 minutes where some wear could occur before the TT shuts off. Nothing more than that is possible. This 45 minute period is automatically re-set each time you turn off and turn on the motor, as in changing records. Very passive to the user, and provides a nice protection, just in case you fall asleep.
And Twl, what did you do BEFORE your Teres?

I really did not expect ANYONE to respond to this thread. It is a very tough thing for most of us to admit. :>) Ed.
Dan ed, The Expressimo "Lifter" has a very high degree of adjustability. The height adjustment of the "pick up arm" allows you to set it so that the transition from "on vinyl" to "off vinyl" is very gentle. Yes, there is an audible "thump". But even the "thump" is of a low enough volume magnitude, where it should present no problems, even if the previous selection was played at a high level of volume. Also, I installed a small felt "button" on the upright post of the Lifter, so that when the tonearm slides along the "pick up arm" and comes to rest against the upright post, an additional measure of quieting is facilitated. And as you mentioned, it is really just an added degree of insurance for those times we fall asleep or become forgetful.

It amazes me that when spending 2-5-10-$20,000 on a turntable, that the manufacturers can't, or simply won't, provide the consumer with an effective means of stylus lift off at end of play. As Twl had mentioned, Teres in the least shuts the motor off. But, if forgotten would still allow the stylus to run in the "circle of death" for possibly up to 30 minutes (depending on the recording). At that point, the damage has already been done. Break out the stylus cleaning kit. AGAIN!

In retrospect, I think it's only fair that we all admit, CDs are convenient.

Too bad they are not made out of vinyl and can't be tracked with a tonearm.

I've done it, but like Tom said, there is only so long the needle will sit in the end grooves on a Teres. I'm working on an arm lifter, but with so many other projects going on, it's way on the back burner.

I'll probably do it again. Maybe that will get me motivated on the lift.
Thanks, Buscis2

I may have to try the Expressimo lifter.
You'll never pin this rap on me copper!!!
I've done it a number of times, thankfully with no damage other than my blood pressure spiking when I "wake up".

Got the lifter mentioned above, spent a couple of HOURS trying to install it, put it in the closet. Piece of crap.
Consttraveler, I'm surprised at your response to the Lifter. It WAS a pain in the ass to get positioned correctly, but after that, works flawlessly.

Are you aware Expressimo is now making another smaller model that is suppose to have a higher level of compatibility with many more models of turntables?

Just a thought. Ed
The lifter in question can be a bear to install, and get working properly, but once done, works great. A small chunk of blue tac will hold it in place
Ok, so 7 5/8 is the size for fitting me with the Buscis Memorial Dunce Cap.

Many moons ago, I am sitting home on a Friday afternoon listening to grooves when the phone rings. I turn down my Marantz receiver and answer the phone. A buddy says - "hey, I got Led Zeppelin tickets in Chicago, throw together a bag and meet me at my place in a half hour." So, I pack a bag, socks and thunderwear flying all over the place. We go -- a long, fun weekend. I get home Sunday night and CRASH. I get up Monday morning and go to classes. Monday evening I grab some food, head home and grab a record. Ooooops, already a record on.........

Surprisingly, my AT cartridge stylus still played but sounded like crap. I replaced the plug-in stylus but wonder if the one I pitched would have played with a cleaning.
10 minutes once on a Dynavector 20X-H cart. But like Dan_ed my listening sessions are too 'ritualized' between the tubes and vinyl. Normally I can beat the cart to the lead out groove. :-)
I've let mine go round many times for up to an hour or more and it's never done any damage. Why should it? It's just a quiet groove with a lead-in. What am I missing here? My cartridge is a Talisman Sapphire. However the odd record does have a "spiral of death" where the cartridge hits the clamp of my Oracle due to eccentricity or just being too small a diameter groove.
Can you provide any more info on the new smaller Lift. I checked expressimoaudio.com, and saw only the older lift in the 2 finishes.
That didn't work with my Nottingham Spacedeck. Couldn't get it to fit in the small space between platter and tonearm.
Thanks, Spencer
I wake up every 20 minutes, or so, even when I'm not asleep, so the answer would be approx. 20 minutes.
Spencer, I feel your pain with respect to the lifts on 'Nots - and just about any other so-called cantilever armboard tables. I am attempting to rig a platform which attatches under the platter plinth on which to mount a lift for a Spacedeck. Will let you know how it works.
Sbank, The original Expressimo version was called "The Lift". The newer version is called "The Lifter". It is smaller and available in Black anodized. "The Lift" is available in chrome only.

The Lift is $89.95, "The Lifter", $49.95, According to the owner of Expressimo (Salvatore, "Sal" for short), The Lifter is able to accomodate a wider variety of configurations and tonearm weights. You may want to call him with your specific configuration. He is always very helpful and very pleasant to deal with.

4yanx & Sbank, since Sal @ Expressimo is an expert machinist, might he be able to machine a spacer or mounting flange?

My problem with the lifter may be equipment related as well as personality related.

I tried to mount it on a Rega P-25 with the RB-600 arm. That arm is tapered, with a relatively wide cross section where the lifter needs to sit. A combination of the width and the slope of the arm where it meets the lifter (the mateing surfaces are not perpendicular) resulted in my Clearaudio Discovery bouncing off of the record surface a couple of times, which further resulted in blood pressure spikes.

The lift would be much easier to install if the design was more throughly thought out. For instance, the central column could be attached the same way as the tonearm, with the height adjusted from the top using an internal thread and a set screw. Ten minute set-up is my estimate (including drilling the hole maybe 15 minutes).

Something that would have been nice to get with the lift would be a simple, paper template for locating the center of the lift. There really are not that many arm-to-spindel dimentions that they could not be accomodated on a sheet of 8-1/2 by 11.

The personality part is paying $90 for $1 worth of parts and machining, that requires three hands and two sets of eyes to install.
Consttraveler, I just experienced a blood pressure spike myself. With all do respect, WHAT ARE YOU DRILLING? Are you drilling the plinth? I mounted the Lifter using a small dab of Blu-Tak, That is it. And it has not moved. Sal from Expressimo suggests using a dab of clear silicone adhesive. I would not and will not drill a hole in this plinth for ANY device.

Using the Blu-Tak allows minor movement Of the Lifter and rotation around it's own axis for minor adjusting. The smaller model works extremely well with my RB900 tapered armtube.

You and I are in absolute agreement regarding the price of this thing. And I would think that the reason he is not providing more accurate mounting information is because these things are so universal. I do believe that he feels if he machines it, you should mount it. Whether that's right or wrong is a whole other subject.

As I had said to another Agon'r earlier. Sal is a very nice person. He will do anything within reason to try to help you out. I would not write this thing off until I called him. I have heard of Sal going as far as machining little spacers or brackets to help facilitate mounting one of his products.

I would say it would be worth at least a phone call, because when properly setup, these things work like a dream.

Best of luck. Regards, Ed.
Funny, When I talked w/Sal the gist of the message was, "Try it and I'll refund if it doesn't work out". He didn't have any experience w/the Nottingham design, and sounded far to busy to be messing w/spacers etc. for me. Certainly nice guy, just really busy.
I tried "The Lifter", it didn't work w/my table, but I sold it to a friend w/Basis table, where it fits fine. Guess the one I tried was the smaller one.
Guess I got what I deserve buying a table that doesn't even have a power on switch ;-)
Cheers, Spencer
Buscis2, Ed:

I have not drilled anything, and I am not recommending it. However, mounting the lifter in the same manner as the arm (I know, I know, on my Rega it would require drilling the plinth) is my opinion of the "best" installation. Once set-up, the little bugger isn't going anywhere.

Murphy's law ("whatever can go wrong, will") says if I use blu-tak or anything temporary, it will fail to function when the arm/cartridge is directly in the line of fire. Talk about a blood pressure spike! Just the thought of the needle being pushed down and across my Super Session album makes my skin crawl. Compared to that, drilling a hole in my P-25 causes me no worries.

I really doesn't matter any way, the lifter is designed to be mounted on the top of the plinth (my Rega is safe and my Thorens TD-520 lifts by itself). Someday when I'm in the right mood, I may dig it out of the closet and try again, you never know.

Ed, before I got the Teres, I had a Linn LP12 with a Monitor Audio Stylift installed(the original "Lifter"). Prior to that, I only fell asleep one time while listening, and woke up after about 20 minutes - so no damage. For me it is a very rare occurrence to fall asleep while listening, so it's not a big deal even if there is no safety measure in place.

Recently, I got a Audio Technica "Safety Raiser" from A'gon member Lugnut, and have been using that on my Teres. I like it better than the Lifter or Stylift, but it gets in the way of playing 45rpm singles.
Twl, I remember the "Stylift". They have not been mentioned in years. And, I had always wondered about the performance/compatibility of the A/T model. I ended up using the Expressimo "Lifter" because of familiarity with the rest of Sal's product line.

I have modified my RB900 using the Expressimo Heavyweight (the newest model) with adjustable weighting. I have to say, it made a difference that is absolutely stunning. It increases the compliance of the tonearm tenfold. It is extracting very subtle information I had never heard before. I also installed the Rega/Expressimo end stub. I can't confirm that it does anything.

The "Lifter" actually works very smoothly and quietly. It was a pain in the ass to get positioned correctly but after that, no problems.

Regards and Happy Listening, Ed.
I had the AT Safety Raiser but sold it to A'Gon member Sean when it would not work with my 'Not. It worked like a charm with my old Linn. Now I wish I'd have held off selling (though I'm glad Sean put it to good use) as I have figured out a simple "flange" to accommodate one. Once I acquire another, I will fall asleep while listening without fear! :-)
Am I missing something here???? 48 hours of play time is barely enough to "burn in" the catridge (if you believe in that). What damage occurs to the (diamond) stylus "playing" a vinyl record for 48 hours when they typically last 1000 - 3000 hours of normal play? Yes, I know there's a bit of a "thump" where the spiral joins the terminal circle but c'mon - can't be any worse that the Telarc 1812!!!