I would verify what you were informed is correct. I just sold some items which ended up in a transfer to my bank account of approx $1,700.00. Other than the 4 DAYS it took to fund to the bank account from when PayPal stated the transfer was complete, all else was ok.
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Most hospitals operate with deficits or lttle or no margin even in the non for profits. They end up absorbing a lot of cost even with "good insurance", that's the deal with the seatbelt law and the high tax cigarettes. The philosophy of laws that are intended to protect you as in the seatbelt law are deeply embedded in any number of life's endeavors. Alcohol is another one why not let dead drunk drivers drive or children be free to buy alcohol?
In the case of Paypal I don't really get it.I assume it would take a whole hell of lot more money than $500, to fund some terrorist, but not being one, or knowing any I can't say for sure. Perhaps our superb intelligence gathering agencies know better. I am certain if they use paypal now (seems silly since a discoverable paper trail is created) and need to transfer more money they will find a way. All this law can do is slow down and complicate the process of legitimate transactions, look at the selling prices on epray! So many items sell in excess of $500 so the larger non Audiogon public is going to be in for a big surprise. Very little Audiogon "high end" equipment/gear we buy or sell costs less not counting ICs etc. I grieve with you on that one!
FWIW a typical hospital expects a 5-7% margin, but even in high Medicare areas, that can be as high as 20%. The hospital I work in has ~300 beds and profited $33 million last year..... I don't worry about hospitals making the money, it's the doctors who are getting screwed by the non insured and Medicare.
I always suspected that was the intent of the seatbelt law...save money from an insurance point of view, and there is a by-law within PayPal that if you provide a SSN you can make the transaction over $500. Ever heard of identity theft? Ever hear of PayPal being hacked? This must be new as I have done loads of transactions over $500 but it is there now. However the point I am upset with was we were told when that law went into effect we would not be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt. That has changed. Also as Kennyt has pointed out one does not see many hospitals OR insurance companies going out of business. I can't help but to bring up yet another record profit year from the oil industry. We get spoon fed this BS about their increasing cost, we pay more and they have record profits; this includes insurance. I'm not against a company making money, but how many companies can you name that are consistently money makers? I bet they all have 1 thing in common...a strong presence in Washington.
I must agree with Mechans that the limit of $500 is suspect since $500 can't buy a terrorist all that much. Can it? I did a search of Patriot Act here on A'gon and another member had to provide a SSN since he purchased a cd player from a Canadian member and the player was not made in the US or Canada.
And let me finish my rant with a rhetorical question; how did the USA do on its last security review? Is Michael Brown in charge of Homeland Security as well?
Really scary so many people are willing to give up their civil liberties in the name of a "safer world for all". I hear that ridiculous convoluted argument all the time trying to justify laws like the seatbelt ones, by associating them with cost savings for hospitals. check this link out I dont know if it is true but if it is think of the cost savings in law enforcment and lives by secretly staying one step ahead. http://www.halturnershow.com/KeystrokeLoggersInAllNewComputers.html
With the way the government is out of control, I don't doubt that you will be investigated.
There's not much you can do, especially with the "support" the government has from uninformed citizens, i.e., the posts here on Agon. This country is headed for one of two outcomes, either a dictatorship or a revolution by its citizens when they truly wise up.
And before you flame me, I am a registered Republican who, at one time, supported the current criminal administration.
I believe that $500 is the transaction limit on a personal (free) PayPal account. My premier account, which costs ~3% per transaction, does not have a $500 limit.
That's my understanding, too. It's the only reason I upgraded to a Premier Account, and it's the way Paypal encourages users to upgrade (and pay the higher fees...)
The only ones out of control here are the ones who werent "wise" enough to realize that Paypal is the one to blame and that includes squirrels who come sniffing around calling the United States government "criminal" and then claim to be a Republican. Yeah right, this citizen is wise enough to know better!
Besides, even if the Patriot act were limiting Paypal transactions to $500.00 it would'nt be an infringement on a Civil Right. The fact that you can transfer money is merely privilege. One that, even limited to $500.00, you should be thankful for.
From the Paypal Payment's Policy page:
Personal Account Receiving Limit. If you have a Canadian, U.S., or U.K. Personal account, you are limited to receiving no more than the equivalent of $500.00 USD each month, based on the primary currency of your PayPal account. Only eBay, auction, and Website Payments (e.g. Buy Now Buttons, PayPal Shopping Cart, or Subscriptions payments) will count against your Receiving Limit. The equivalent Receiving Limits are as follows:
The webpage is here under under Section II, subsection 3 "Personal Account Receiving Limit". I could not find any language pertaining to the Patriot Act.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" Benjamin Franklin
Well that pretty much says it all these days, how much further will we slip?
On the eve of 2002, I ordered a Kerry Audio F2 endstub, and had it shippied "Express". This is itself was enough to have it set aside for inspection. In order for it to make it through customs I had to answer questions on it's source and function. "What's it for?" A turntable. "Who's turntable, is it? Mine "Anyone else have access to it other than you?" Come on, is this really necessry?
SO, I take that most of the posters here don't believe that official story of 9/11 either if you don't think that $500 can do any damage. How, much does a box cutter cost anyway? Better stop I here the Black Helicopters over head.:)-~
Your absolutley right, they have your money in an account for the period of time - they have aleady extracted their fee. Frankly I consider using Paypal a learning experience, will never use them again. I also have this uncomfortable feeling that giving them bank account number, etc., leaves one open for further privacy risk. I wonder if they are guilty of some compliance issues.
Does anybody remember the standard 7 day hold on all bank deposited checks back in the 80's?
Congress finally busted them for the practice called "float". Banks would process your deposit that night, then collect the interest on the money in short term accounts until finally making your funds available to you.
In a concession, the banks then went to 3 day holds. Finally, they had no excuse and had to make the deposits same day except in certain circumstances, like not enough money in the account to cover the check in case of NSF or fraud.
Looks like PayPal (and their owner eBay!) have brought back "float" as a way of making short term profits and force everyone to upgrade to a paying account. Killing two birds with one stone.
And it's all legal since PayPal is not a bank and probably not beholden to the "float" regulations.
Not to be too unkind, but a lot of these posts make me think of "tinfoil hats."
Paypal transfers are nothing more than ACH (Automated Clearing House) transmissions between financial institutions. Here's a bit of background:
As to the $500 limit, that's just a way of migrating people toward the Premier Account, where Paypal can make more money.
Ah, the Patriot Act. I can't believe this thread wasn't several pages long and shut down by the moderators considering the strong feelings and beliefs we all have.
Naomi Kleins 'Shock Doctrine' pretty much sums things up. It goes something like this: ideas are debated and laws envisioned that would never get passed in the light of day. They are shelved until something shocking happens and presto, chango, some huge, voluminous doctrine is trotted out and sold to us as the only way to set thing right.
It's generally too big to read and great amounts of pressure are taken to ensure it's passed lest you are some kind of traitor, commie, or leftist. The situation is dire, or made to seem so, and drastic programs are touted as the only answer. It's only after the fact that as things take a turn for the worse, strange or completely absurd that one asks why are you doing this and the answer is,
"The Patriot Act".
Looking back, it was just one big excuse to do massive amounts of data mining on the citizenry: their buying habits, trading, communications, etc.
This revelation was withheld from the public by the New York Times a couple of months after Bush won his second term. Had that info been made public, he wouldn't have won re-elction.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
--Ben Franklin 1759
All the best,
As it turns out the government's use of personal info is somewhat benign. They're looking for data that points to unusual activity. What's scarier to me is the deep data mining by commercial companies that are interested in our normal everyday activities. It directly effects you financially as a consumer, employee, borrower and investor.
Good point, but considering that there are now over 850,000 more private contractors than before 9/11 with the highest security clearances one can have and that they greatly benefit from having no real oversight, all of that data was intended to be mined from the get-go, be it government oriented or not. There is no real bright line between government and business in a lot of cases.
With Google, Oracle, and one other company (for the life of me I can't remember) behind Stuxnet and Flame doing their thing over in Iran, just how exacting are the comings and goings of we, the people, being tracked?
On another note, I tend to laugh at the conundrum about leaks on Stuxnet when it was an American security company that discovered it and brought it to light. It would be nice to have the right hand know what the left hand is doing.
All the best,
FedEx had maintained that right prior to the Patriot Act. They were known for very lax enforcement which for awhile made them the preferred carrier of illicit materials. Homeland Security strongly encouraged them to put more effort in their package checking.
Patriot Act, Homeland Security -- someplace George Orwell is smiling.
Here's a link to a recent book outlining the absurdity and futility of much of the homeland security efforts.
@ nonoise In medicine it is often repeated that drastic problems require drastic solutions. What is a truly drastic problem is ours to be debated, and and the solution cannot cause undo harm and thus may not even exist. Imagine of the cure for a highly aggressive brain malignacy is to remove the brain entirely, what have we achieved? A second common phrase I was taught went like this.. A therapy that kills the patient is not a therapuetic triumph.
So we are left with a number of difficult questions. Is there a cure for the problems supposedly addressed in the Patriot Act? And does that therapy destroy the foundation upom which this country stands being Equality Justice and Indivual Liberty.
I don't know if I personally feel any safer. I can only hope the sacrifices we endure are worthy and function the way we would want and anticipate to function. I don't know at this moment. I think most of us love this country warts and all.
P.S. to the governmental scanners I am not the enemy. Just excersizing my right to free speech.
I just closed my PP account last week but was told it would take 4 day to a week....I protested and said I wanted it done now. They asked why and I explained that I thought their ceo was an asshole and that PP would not allow me to support J. Assange and Brad Manning and my paypal money should be allowed to be sent there at my request. After a slight pause they closed my account...I urge others to dump Paypal
What PP did, in bending to some very overreaching, onerous and draconian efforts was deplorable, to say the least. But the power behind those motives could have put them out of business: they could have fought but they wouldn't be enjoying the same markets they do now. Such is the price of doing business.
All the best,
FedEx 'inspected' my iPhone in the package and one of the employees 'misdelivered' the item due to the Patriot Act that is actually a mechanizm to go against all our constitutional rights. It's an extra coverage of our precious arses obviously for extra extra fee that needed to justify expenses on our measurable crusades in Middle East.
"Anyone that is worried about Big Brother or Cameras either has something to hide or is doing something against the law. Like telling people that tweeks work or that SS sounds better than tubes. "
This is about a government overstepping the bounds upon which it was built, the NDAA being the latest egregious example.
If you ever do anything that someone or some monitoring program finds suspicious, you may find yourself with a gloved hand up your @ss, so to speak. Every person who's rights and personal liberty are trampled upon will not be genuinely guilty of doing something wrong and suspicious.
Therein lies the problem.
Name something you've done about it. I have no holds on my paypal account no matter what the price is. Wonder why that is? If you like tweeks or ss better than tubes, great, buy them. Just not in my system. Stay out of trouble, someone may be watching. Guess I'll have to play my Paranoid album twice.