Noticed the Patriot Act's effects on PayPal?

I work with PCs and use PayPal to conduct my financial transactions. I recently sold some hardware for $800 and tried to transfer the money into my bank account only to be told I can only move $500 a month due to the Patriot Act. After fuming over this for an hour, I realized the ramifications of my true hobby...high end audio. So now, if I sell my amp, preamp, voltage regulator, etc... in an effort to upgrade my system, I will be affected by The Patriot Act. Has anyone else noticed this? I can only question how much more control we will allow our government into our daily lives before we say enough. I'm still pi$$ed that I can now be pulled over for not wearing my seatbelt...when the seatbelt law was passed, we were told we would NOT get pulled over for this violation. I ask you, what value is there in wearing my seatbelt as I drive to the gas station to buy a carton of cigarettes? I’m not some bleeding heart liberal, but am close to my fill of crap I can take from my government. Am I alone? Will I be investigated for this post?
I would verify what you were informed is correct. I just sold some items which ended up in a transfer to my bank account of approx $1,700.00. Other than the 4 DAYS it took to fund to the bank account from when PayPal stated the transfer was complete, all else was ok.
Since you asked, the "value in wearing my seatbelt as I drive to the gas station to buy a carton of cigarettes" is that if somebody broadsides you and seatbelts save your butt, we taxpayers won't have to pay your hospital bills for the coma you might be in for five years.
Happy Holidays!
Most hospitals operate with deficits or lttle or no margin even in the non for profits. They end up absorbing a lot of cost even with "good insurance", that's the deal with the seatbelt law and the high tax cigarettes. The philosophy of laws that are intended to protect you as in the seatbelt law are deeply embedded in any number of life's endeavors. Alcohol is another one why not let dead drunk drivers drive or children be free to buy alcohol?

In the case of Paypal I don't really get it.I assume it would take a whole hell of lot more money than $500, to fund some terrorist, but not being one, or knowing any I can't say for sure. Perhaps our superb intelligence gathering agencies know better. I am certain if they use paypal now (seems silly since a discoverable paper trail is created) and need to transfer more money they will find a way. All this law can do is slow down and complicate the process of legitimate transactions, look at the selling prices on epray! So many items sell in excess of $500 so the larger non Audiogon public is going to be in for a big surprise. Very little Audiogon "high end" equipment/gear we buy or sell costs less not counting ICs etc. I grieve with you on that one!
FWIW a typical hospital expects a 5-7% margin, but even in high Medicare areas, that can be as high as 20%. The hospital I work in has ~300 beds and profited $33 million last year..... I don't worry about hospitals making the money, it's the doctors who are getting screwed by the non insured and Medicare.
Just tranfered $2200 from paypal to my bank without issue this week. I don't think the Patriot Act is the problem.
I always suspected that was the intent of the seatbelt money from an insurance point of view, and there is a by-law within PayPal that if you provide a SSN you can make the transaction over $500. Ever heard of identity theft? Ever hear of PayPal being hacked? This must be new as I have done loads of transactions over $500 but it is there now. However the point I am upset with was we were told when that law went into effect we would not be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt. That has changed. Also as Kennyt has pointed out one does not see many hospitals OR insurance companies going out of business. I can't help but to bring up yet another record profit year from the oil industry. We get spoon fed this BS about their increasing cost, we pay more and they have record profits; this includes insurance. I'm not against a company making money, but how many companies can you name that are consistently money makers? I bet they all have 1 thing in common...a strong presence in Washington.

I must agree with Mechans that the limit of $500 is suspect since $500 can't buy a terrorist all that much. Can it? I did a search of Patriot Act here on A'gon and another member had to provide a SSN since he purchased a cd player from a Canadian member and the player was not made in the US or Canada.

And let me finish my rant with a rhetorical question; how did the USA do on its last security review? Is Michael Brown in charge of Homeland Security as well?
Really scary so many people are willing to give up their civil liberties in the name of a "safer world for all". I hear that ridiculous convoluted argument all the time trying to justify laws like the seatbelt ones, by associating them with cost savings for hospitals. check this link out I dont know if it is true but if it is think of the cost savings in law enforcment and lives by secretly staying one step ahead.
Mdomnick, Thanks for that timely info. This may be a problem for some sellers here, for example, someone who sells a component for $1K so he can buy Christmas presents for the family - now only can buy half of what he wanted.....That stinks...
Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said something to the effect of "Those who give up a little liberty for temporary safety soon have neither liberty nor safety"?
I believe that $500 is the transaction limit on a personal (free) PayPal account. My premier account, which costs ~3% per transaction, does not have a $500 limit. Perhaps things have changed as recently as a few days ago, but I don't think so.
It wasn't Franklin, but I'm at work now and don't have access to the author...
With the way the government is out of control, I don't doubt that you will be investigated.
There's not much you can do, especially with the "support" the government has from uninformed citizens, i.e., the posts here on Agon. This country is headed for one of two outcomes, either a dictatorship or a revolution by its citizens when they truly wise up.
And before you flame me, I am a registered Republican who, at one time, supported the current criminal administration.
I believe that $500 is the transaction limit on a personal (free) PayPal account. My premier account, which costs ~3% per transaction, does not have a $500 limit.

That's my understanding, too. It's the only reason I upgraded to a Premier Account, and it's the way Paypal encourages users to upgrade (and pay the higher fees...)
The only ones out of control here are the ones who werent "wise" enough to realize that Paypal is the one to blame and that includes squirrels who come sniffing around calling the United States government "criminal" and then claim to be a Republican. Yeah right, this citizen is wise enough to know better!

Besides, even if the Patriot act were limiting Paypal transactions to $500.00 it would'nt be an infringement on a Civil Right. The fact that you can transfer money is merely privilege. One that, even limited to $500.00, you should be thankful for.
From the Paypal Payment's Policy page:
Personal Account Receiving Limit. If you have a Canadian, U.S., or U.K. Personal account, you are limited to receiving no more than the equivalent of $500.00 USD each month, based on the primary currency of your PayPal account. Only eBay, auction, and Website Payments (e.g. Buy Now Buttons, PayPal Shopping Cart, or Subscriptions payments) will count against your Receiving Limit. The equivalent Receiving Limits are as follows:

Currency of
Primary Balance
Receiving Limit

U.S. Dollars
$500.00 USD

Canadian Dollars
$650.00 CAD

€400.00 EUR

Pounds Sterling
£250.00 GBP

¥56,000 JPY

Australian Dollars
$1,250.00 AUD

This $500.00 USD cap is based on the account sign-up date, and is reset each month. Once you have reached your monthly limit, the payment will have a Pending status, and you will need to upgrade to a Premier or Business account to accept the payment. If a payment is Pending based on your having reached your Receiving Limit and your limit is reset, the payment will remain Pending until you have upgraded your account or denied the payment. If you refund a payment, your Receiving Limit will not be reset for the amount of the payment.

The webpage is here under under Section II, subsection 3 "Personal Account Receiving Limit". I could not find any language pertaining to the Patriot Act.

You are a true patriot. You registered today in order to defend the CRIMINAL administration in power. Little wonder you support the Patriot Act.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" Benjamin Franklin

Well that pretty much says it all these days, how much further will we slip?

On the eve of 2002, I ordered a Kerry Audio F2 endstub, and had it shippied "Express". This is itself was enough to have it set aside for inspection. In order for it to make it through customs I had to answer questions on it's source and function. "What's it for?" A turntable. "Who's turntable, is it? Mine "Anyone else have access to it other than you?" Come on, is this really necessry?

SO, I take that most of the posters here don't believe that official story of 9/11 either if you don't think that $500 can do any damage. How, much does a box cutter cost anyway? Better stop I here the Black Helicopters over head.:)-~
Thanx for heads up...
Paypal isn't pal anymore.
Quoting a shirtless would-be rickshaw driver on Seinfeld:

Don't you think your SS could be hacked anyway? Well, no SS no money transfer.
Squirrel, 12inchwoofer I think is just being ironic...
Paypal amazes me. If I transfer from paypal to my bank account, it takes 4 days to clear. But if I buy something and transfer from bank acct to paypal, amazingly enough, it goes RIGHT through! The 4 days is nothing more than a way for them to make some interest on your money.
Your absolutley right, they have your money in an account for the period of time - they have aleady extracted their fee. Frankly I consider using Paypal a learning experience, will never use them again. I also have this uncomfortable feeling that giving them bank account number, etc., leaves one open for further privacy risk. I wonder if they are guilty of some compliance issues.
Does anybody remember the standard 7 day hold on all bank deposited checks back in the 80's?

Congress finally busted them for the practice called "float". Banks would process your deposit that night, then collect the interest on the money in short term accounts until finally making your funds available to you.

In a concession, the banks then went to 3 day holds. Finally, they had no excuse and had to make the deposits same day except in certain circumstances, like not enough money in the account to cover the check in case of NSF or fraud.

Looks like PayPal (and their owner eBay!) have brought back "float" as a way of making short term profits and force everyone to upgrade to a paying account. Killing two birds with one stone.

And it's all legal since PayPal is not a bank and probably not beholden to the "float" regulations.
Hey if your not Right your Wrong!
Not to be too unkind, but a lot of these posts make me think of "tinfoil hats."

Paypal transfers are nothing more than ACH (Automated Clearing House) transmissions between financial institutions. Here's a bit of background:

As to the $500 limit, that's just a way of migrating people toward the Premier Account, where Paypal can make more money.
Looking back, we can see now the Patriot Act was only the beginning.
Ever notice the results of the Patriot Act when attempting to purchase cold pills?
The big time meth guys buy this stuff in 55 gallon drums not little cold capsules.
Now you have to check the sky for drones before you transfer $500 or more via Paypal.
Don't be surprised to learn that cameras are all over the place. Almost every business has them and there are the Police cameras at intersections. With the advent and explosion of servalliance Drones, our privacy is pretty much shot. I guess we either have fight it or accept it as a necessary evil.
Ah, the Patriot Act. I can't believe this thread wasn't several pages long and shut down by the moderators considering the strong feelings and beliefs we all have.

Naomi Kleins 'Shock Doctrine' pretty much sums things up. It goes something like this: ideas are debated and laws envisioned that would never get passed in the light of day. They are shelved until something shocking happens and presto, chango, some huge, voluminous doctrine is trotted out and sold to us as the only way to set thing right.

It's generally too big to read and great amounts of pressure are taken to ensure it's passed lest you are some kind of traitor, commie, or leftist. The situation is dire, or made to seem so, and drastic programs are touted as the only answer. It's only after the fact that as things take a turn for the worse, strange or completely absurd that one asks why are you doing this and the answer is,
"The Patriot Act".

Looking back, it was just one big excuse to do massive amounts of data mining on the citizenry: their buying habits, trading, communications, etc.

This revelation was withheld from the public by the New York Times a couple of months after Bush won his second term. Had that info been made public, he wouldn't have won re-elction.

Go figure.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

--Ben Franklin 1759

All the best,
As it turns out the government's use of personal info is somewhat benign. They're looking for data that points to unusual activity. What's scarier to me is the deep data mining by commercial companies that are interested in our normal everyday activities. It directly effects you financially as a consumer, employee, borrower and investor.

Good point, but considering that there are now over 850,000 more private contractors than before 9/11 with the highest security clearances one can have and that they greatly benefit from having no real oversight, all of that data was intended to be mined from the get-go, be it government oriented or not. There is no real bright line between government and business in a lot of cases.

With Google, Oracle, and one other company (for the life of me I can't remember) behind Stuxnet and Flame doing their thing over in Iran, just how exacting are the comings and goings of we, the people, being tracked?

On another note, I tend to laugh at the conundrum about leaks on Stuxnet when it was an American security company that discovered it and brought it to light. It would be nice to have the right hand know what the left hand is doing.

All the best,
Anyone that is worried about Big Brother or Cameras either has something to hide or is doing something against the law. Like telling people that tweeks work or that SS sounds better than tubes.
I knew the other shoe would drop.

All the best,
Sign at FedEx yesterday. Due to Patriot Act we reserve the right to open, xray, inspect all packages.
FedEx had maintained that right prior to the Patriot Act. They were known for very lax enforcement which for awhile made them the preferred carrier of illicit materials. Homeland Security strongly encouraged them to put more effort in their package checking.

Patriot Act, Homeland Security -- someplace George Orwell is smiling.

Here's a link to a recent book outlining the absurdity and futility of much of the homeland security efforts.
@ nonoise In medicine it is often repeated that drastic problems require drastic solutions. What is a truly drastic problem is ours to be debated, and and the solution cannot cause undo harm and thus may not even exist. Imagine of the cure for a highly aggressive brain malignacy is to remove the brain entirely, what have we achieved? A second common phrase I was taught went like this.. A therapy that kills the patient is not a therapuetic triumph.
So we are left with a number of difficult questions. Is there a cure for the problems supposedly addressed in the Patriot Act? And does that therapy destroy the foundation upom which this country stands being Equality Justice and Indivual Liberty.
I don't know if I personally feel any safer. I can only hope the sacrifices we endure are worthy and function the way we would want and anticipate to function. I don't know at this moment. I think most of us love this country warts and all.
P.S. to the governmental scanners I am not the enemy. Just excersizing my right to free speech.
I do NOT, repeat do NOT, have a bomb in my underwear!
We simply have no where to go on this but to hope that with a dilution of safeguards, in their wording, and meaning, will come to be of no consequence as long as sane people are in charge.

And therein lies the rub.

All the best,
I just closed my PP account last week but was told it would take 4 day to a week....I protested and said I wanted it done now. They asked why and I explained that I thought their ceo was an asshole and that PP would not allow me to support J. Assange and Brad Manning and my paypal money should be allowed to be sent there at my request. After a slight pause they closed my account...I urge others to dump Paypal


What PP did, in bending to some very overreaching, onerous and draconian efforts was deplorable, to say the least. But the power behind those motives could have put them out of business: they could have fought but they wouldn't be enjoying the same markets they do now. Such is the price of doing business.

All the best,
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FedEx 'inspected' my iPhone in the package and one of the employees 'misdelivered' the item due to the Patriot Act that is actually a mechanizm to go against all our constitutional rights. It's an extra coverage of our precious arses obviously for extra extra fee that needed to justify expenses on our measurable crusades in Middle East.
"Anyone that is worried about Big Brother or Cameras either has something to hide or is doing something against the law. Like telling people that tweeks work or that SS sounds better than tubes. "


This is about a government overstepping the bounds upon which it was built, the NDAA being the latest egregious example.

If you ever do anything that someone or some monitoring program finds suspicious, you may find yourself with a gloved hand up your @ss, so to speak. Every person who's rights and personal liberty are trampled upon will not be genuinely guilty of doing something wrong and suspicious.

Therein lies the problem.
Name something you've done about it. I have no holds on my paypal account no matter what the price is. Wonder why that is? If you like tweeks or ss better than tubes, great, buy them. Just not in my system. Stay out of trouble, someone may be watching. Guess I'll have to play my Paranoid album twice.
An uninformed populace is a populace enslaved. Example 1.8 million Americans marched on Washington DC (May 14th 2014) and not one news network covered it. Do I hear the twilight zone theme playing at this point.
Well, phd -since uninformed is a shoe that fits 90 % + of Americans
things aren’t looking too hot .
 EVERY economist in power in 2008 swore nobody saw this coming etc ............... uh, except everyone who reads the "Economist" which had been saying its coming for about a decade prior .
Schubert, how very true!
Never use them as they stink big time!!