Not too knowledgeable and a cartridge/ phono amp recommendation is desired


I’m looking to improve my simple system in stages and need some ideas. Currently my 2 channel system is an Outlaw RR2160 receiver, Klipsch Heresy w/Crites crossovers/tweeters. The current turntable in the system is Thorens TD 160 Super with a Jelco SA-750 tone arm and a Dynavector 10x5 cartridge. My other turntable is a VPI Scout with JMW Memorial Tonearm and a 2m Bronze cartridge and connected to a surround system that does it no justice. The front speakers in the surround system are PSB Imagine Ts. I find the Klipsch while a little brighter they are definitely more detailed. I actually prefer them. I’ve tried both with the Outlaw.
I’m going to incorporate the VPI into my 2 channel sytem and think a pre amp and cartridge is in order. I honestly do not know how to incorporate a pre amp into my receiver or setup the turntable properly with a new cartridge. I listem mostly to Blues and roots type music. Currently Eilen Jewell on the Thorens. My max budget is $2000 dollars for pre amp and cartridge but would like to spend  less. Speakers(Cornscala are on my radar) and then amp will be next. Sound advice is desired. Thanks in advance for any response.
14point1

Showing 2 responses by millercarbon

What I mean is if you go the phono stage option then you need an interconnect to connect it to your receiver.

Here's the whole big picture. The phono stage both equalizes and amplifies the cartridge output. Right now you are using the Phono input and built-in phono stage in the receiver. So when adding a phono stage the turntable connects to the phono stage and then you need another interconnect to connect that to the receiver.

If you want to get some sense of what the phono stage does, try connecting your turntable to one of the line stage inputs. Sound will have no bass, treble will be like noise, and it won't be loud until the volume is cranked, and maybe not even then.

This is because the sound on a record goes through RIAA equalization that turns the bass way down and the treble way up. To play it back requires RIAA equalization to turn the bass back up and the treble back down. All phono stages must do this- amplify and equalize-  whether on a built-in card or stand-alone component. That's a lot of amplification, and a lot of equalization, and doing it right ain't easy. No wonder there's such a huge leap in performance going from a built-in card to a stand-alone stage.

So any, and I mean ANY stand alone phono stage is gonna be a vast improvement over the card in your receiver. However, a lot of that improvement will be lost on a crappy interconnect. Then even more will be lost in the receiver. Which like I said is okay if short term but not a good way to go for 2-3 years.

Now going to an integrated, the improvement over your receiver is gonna be so big you will notice immediately. The problem with receivers, they try and do too many things at once. This raises two really big and really unsolvable problems. One of the most critical parts of any component is the power supply. In order to reach a price point the receiver almost always uses one power supply for everything. Just look at yours- one great big toroidal transformer. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. Except for there only being one. For everything. The other unsolvable problem is each of these different components creates its own noise that must be shielded from each of the other components. 

Its not that your receiver is bad. As receivers go its probably really quite good. The problem is it could be the best receiver ever made in the history of receivers. Twice as good even. Still its got a tuner, EQ, phono stage, and a DAC (always incredibly noisy) and more, all in one box. Simply cannot be done well. If the first store you go to doesn't have an integrated for half the price that kicks this things butt I'd be shocked. That's how big a difference it was back when I actually did this comparison, and I seriously doubt anything has changed. Because however much receivers have improved, so have integrateds.

So what you want is an integrated. The only slight downside to this is being limited to integrateds with a built-in phono stage. But this is not that big a problem, owing to the fact that they will all be so much better anyway. Both the integrated, as well as its phono card. Both.

Hardly ever, btw, do I give advice on particular components. My advice is all first-hand experience based only. Which is unusual around here. I've actually compared receivers with integrateds (and with Home Theater gear) and separates, and with more phono stages, interconnects, and power cords than you can shake a stick at. Direct to your situation, I've actually built whole CD and LP based systems for people and at even smaller budgets than yours. ($1200-3000 total system- and total means total: power cords, interconnects, speaker cables, and Cones, all included, complete. Total.)

Still, while I recommend an integrated with a built-in phono stage, what I really recommend is you go and listen. Find a store with a few components in your price range. Doesn't have to be exactly what you're looking for. Just close enough to be applicable. Ideally I would find some place with very close to what I want, and just be up front and tell them hey I'm thinking of upgrading this receiver, but on a budget, so is it okay if I bring it in and compare it side by side with your integrated? Maybe try your receiver with their recommended phono stage. If you do this, pay attention to the interconnect they use, and be sure to compare that too, both with yours (bring it!) and with at least one other of theirs. 

If the store is any good they will say okay. If not be polite and go elsewhere and ask again. I've done this exact thing, brought in my CD player, interconnect, even a big heavy 200 wpc Dynaco amp. No one has ever said no. Every time I was shocked to find that what I had and thought was pretty good was absolute crap. And the biggest shock by far was how crappy my crappy patch cord interconnect was compared to even a budget interconnect!

You got a pretty nice table. With the right associated gear I think you'll be surprised how much better it will sound, and for not a lot more money. If you do it right. Go and listen. You will see.




Honestly looking at the whole situation I think johnto has the best idea. If your budget was higher or if your time frame was shorter it might make more sense to go with the best phono stage you can, knowing it would only be with the receiver a short time. But three years is an awful long time to be suffering along with what passes for music coming out of a receiver. There really is no such thing as a good receiver. 

You should on the other hand have no trouble finding an integrated with a phono stage built in. For sure it will be better than what you have now. For sure the phono stage will be better. For sure the amp will be better. No possible way you can do worse. Very unlikely you will be able to find any phono stage that when run through the receiver will sound as good. Certainly not on your budget. Even more so when you consider the phono stage will require an interconnect.

There's just no way. Integrated with built-in phono stage. Totally the way to go. Worth the stretch to get as good a one as you can, then in 2-3 years upgrade either the whole thing or to a better phono stage.