Not Thrilled with Vandersteen 2CE Sigs - where is the first place to work on?

@helomech I am one of them. Just surprised to hear that others agree. 

I owned the 1s and the 2s, and the 1s do not have the flabbiness of the 2s. Why has not the dealer shared that Richard himself used 1s with subs instead of the 2s? At least, that is what my Vandy dealer at the time told me. 

It's pathetic when as significant a shortcoming as the negative impact of a grill cannot be admitted. Instead, irrelevant illustrations, equivocations, etc. are used to downplay it. The fact is, the grill is necessary to allow for a cheaper build, and it is ALWAYS a problem sonically. This is so whether a Magnepan or Vandersteen, both of which I have used/owned, models having permanent grills. Now, I would not own either company's products with permanent grills, as it so degrades sound quality. 

What a ridiculous argument regarding thinness of grills. As though the grills of other competitors are oh, so much worse. Perhaps computer analysis of the fabric thickness in comparison to other brands was done to vest the Vandersteen grills. This is what is called an excuse, diversion. So, the thin, see through grills of the King Sound King III ESL that I reviewed for Dagogo.com and own are of little consequence? If you can see through it, the grill is to be negligible? This is horrid advice, and I counter with; one of the fundamental reasons the 2CE was not great at resolution and definition was the permanent grill. It became obvious when switching to different speakers sans grills that it was a design problem. YMMV, as the say. I suspect some will adamantly disagree. So be it. 

Remember, the goal of some here is to defend the seemingly unimpeachable sound of Vandersteen at all costs. Just like Magnepan. Allowance must be given to dismiss and diminish all claims of serious sound quality issues. No one is allowed to give hard analysis of the shortcomings of the lower end models; they are sacrosanct. Value demands a pass be given to all potential design issues and shortcomings. 

The fact is, you select these lower models and you are assured average HiFi sound. Nice, pleasant, but nowhere near upper end sound. This is to balance some of the ridiculous, fawning enthusiasm completely out of touch with reality as regards the universe of HiFi speaker performance. 

WOW! Why the vitriol?  As a dealer for many years just trying to keep the effect of the grille in perspective. All Vandersteen’s are designed to be listened to with the grills on for what ever reason he chooses. Richard has told seminar attendees that the grills on the lower cost speakers allows him to put more of ones money into the drivers, crossovers and out of sight low diffraction time aligned enclosures. Only he knows if that is a worth while compromise but I can tell you they would not sell without grills because the inside is not finished. Maybe you would make a different choice if you were the designer and outsell him, no one is stopping you.  Many on this forum promote numerous components passionately because that is part of the hobby. Thank goodness not many are as passionately negative and I doubt Richard or Wendel lose any sleep over the fact you won’t own their products. Back to helping audio enthusiast get better sound and enjoyment from their music.
 JohnnyR

JohnnyR, good response, and points well taken. :) Forgive me for coming on too strong. When I argue points in regard to technical aspects of design and system building, I can become intense. I think your reply was on target and well balanced.  

Yes, I am aware of the insides of the speakers and that they are not finished. You make the one defensible argument for the grills; more money put into the internals, and in that Richard is correct, it’s a solid design argument. That can be a defensible decision to select a speaker with a grill. In fact, if I were in a situation where I was forced to use a budget speaker, the lower end Vandys would be high on my list of options for that reason - despite the grill cloth finish. (I hope the community sees that this does not conflict with my previous statement that I would not now use a speaker with a permanent grill).

Thankfully, I do not have to compete in the speaker market! Some of these guys are killing themselves - I know the situation with some smaller speaker makers who do not have the advantage of economy of scale, and it’s might tough. I admire any speaker maker, including Vandersteen and Magnepan, who strive to give a good performance for the dollar. That is never in dispute with me. As someone who was at one time a Mid-Fi hobbyist, I will always be grateful for the option of a HiFi speaker at a good value.

Guys, I have done that comparison of a pair of 2's with covers on and covers removed.  It was in the late 90's at a dealer who had to install new socks for a customer so we started to play.  None of us hear any difference.  Richard knows how to design a top sounding speaker in the price ranges he plays in.  

They aren't everyone's cup to tea though.