I own three preamps. Each of them has a separate full size chassis power supply.
Audio Research Sp-15
I guess for me to be a keeper the pre needs a separate power supply.
Plus I use a $3,500. Power conditioner Furman REF20i
Which is itself like MORE power supply at the far end of the powercord...
So no, 'small' power supplies are not in my system.
Just edited my system page to show my pre-amp power supply as the separate unit it truly is. Symphonic Line is still making their pre-amps with separate power supply units in 2013, and they remain brawny (although for some reason not quite as brawny today as my rebuilt one!).
Big music through big speakers takes big power supplies and reserves. Why wait until the signal hits the power amp before applying the juice?
What happened are they expired or outsourced to China?
For what it does, how big does it really need to be?
It needs to be huge and robust to make a true SOTA tubed preamp. No getting around it. Large tranny, chokes etc......... A must!
That Furman sounds like a great unit.
I think everyone would be amazed at the improvement in their systems, don't you.
Ptss... that Furman was purchased here on Audiogon for $1,400 AND I was able to go pick it up within a hundred miles of home.
Ditto my PS Audio P600 ($1,000)
Personally I want to simplify my system and reduce my box count & recently moved from Boulder separates to a Vitus SIA-025. The Vitus' linestage is made from one single buffer module which is also used in the Vitus SL-102.. so..really good. The SIA-025 was upgraded in early 2012 with most focus on the modules in both pre and power amp sections which resulted in higher resolution and better power handling. It also comes with a very nice programmable remote. As for power and authority, well the Vitus is surprisingly powerful and so no problems there. Another integrated that comes to mind is the Boulder 865 which has a very good preamp section imho.
We certainly beleive in the quality of a power supply whether its an amp, preamp or anything else. This is not to say that you have to have a huge, separate power supply for good results. Size does not matter if the design is not up to par. Doesn't matter how big and impressive looking it is if its not doing what it is suppose to do properly.
I would take a small, simple PROPERLY DESIGNED power supply over a huge, separate flawed design. Same goes for any circuit design.
Response34, I guess that I agree that once I hear a line stage, I make a judgment about its power supply. I certainly don't just look at the size of the ps and make the judgment. If you mean by "properly designed" that it sounds great, I agree.
No once would argue your point, of course design and execution have to be proper or all is loss. Your Purity Audio line stages employ separate and beefy power supplies as one ascends the price scale. So I assume they have a significant function or the line stages would remain a single convenient box rather than two boxes. It seems that the majority of upper tier or cost no object models have separate power supplies.
If you research Naim and their power supplies, and read some user's reviews on the Naim forum regarding their PS555, and how some have added a second one each for digital and analog reporting great results, and now using the upgraded PS555DR (Discrete Regulator) to even better reported results.... I am not in the mood for using periods, or ending sentences today, so....
Don't necessarily be fooled by full sized power supplies. I am aware that both Bryston and Pass, in the past, marketed a pre-amp and a phono stage, respectively, that initially had separate but small power supplies only to supplant them with the identical power supplies but housed in full size cases. The market was far more accepting of a half empty power supply case vs. a just right sized case. It just bugs me when I see the insides of a component that is half or more, air
That "air" may be serving a good purpose, namely preventing different parts of the power supply from interfering with each other. Here's shot of the inside of my preamp power supply, I purposely designed it to keep the B+ supply (front and right side) away from the two high amperage filament supplies (in the back). The B+ transformer and rectifier tube are on the top of the box, so not in the picture.26 Preamp PS
A "half full" chassis could be a very good sign and indicative of a simple straightforward circuit. You can have a robust power supply coupled with a simple circuit with fewer parts that are of exceptional quality.
Ait, nice job on the preamp! Love to see the rest of it.
Agree with Bill, it's attractive and looks well built.
Congratulations, I'm sure it sounds wonderful.
Sure, if you insist ;-)26 Preamp
The rectifier tube is a 5Y3G, the preamp section uses balloon 26 and 0A3 and 0D3 gas voltage regulator tubes. The "output transformers" are Bent/Slagle autoformers in parafeed, so they do double duty as volume controls on the output. Remote control of volume and balance are nice as they let me lock in the perfect levels from my listening position.
And here's a link to my latest project, still in progress...200WPC SET Amplifier
2300VDC B+ supply...woohoo!
2300VDC B+?!?! Certainly one of thos "keep one hand behind your back" situations when working with these. Impressive yet DEADLY. What kind of current are you dealing with.
And I thought 1000VDC+ for 805/845 type tubes was crazy.
"...A "half full" chassis..."
A half full power supply chassis can still mean a proper circuit. Maybe the designer didn't want the power supply in the same chassis as the main circuit and/or simply did not have enough room in a single chassis for both circuits.
Ait, you are da man! Very impressive preamp and that power amp is over the top! I will follow your progress. You are certainly very good at this. Impressive to say the least.
The amp is in A1 up to about 40W, then it goes into A2. Current draw in A1 is 160mA for the output, then add in up to 200mA grid current in A2 at full power.
The output transformers are custom from Monolith Magnetics in Belgium, and weigh 62lbs each, with amorphous cores and teflon insulation.
Thanks. I enjoy my hobby...
Ait, Wow! What speakers will you use with them? (and) Do you have a sizable room? I have a pair of JBL 4676B two way horn speakers in storage.
These are my speakers:Infinity RSIIb
The oak boxes behind the speakers contain the crossover network, which I removed from the speakers when I rebuilt them with new EMIM diaphragms from Apogee Acoustics, Northcreek and Solen heptalitz inductors, Duelund, Mundorf, Solen and Audiocap Theta caps, Cardas copper litz in Teflon wire...but that's a different project.
Very impressive Ait. Anybody that goes to that kind of extreme, obviously enjoys the hobby. I like to keep custom, over the top builds to preamps. I have had a few customers that wanted very extreme preamps and if they can't afford something in the Purity Audio line, such as an Ultra GT, they usually have me custom build something from the Musica Bella line.
I like unique designs as well. I am now working on some "Newstolgic" pieces bringing back the idea of integrated table top consoles for a unique lifestyle product.
I will never get involved in a tube amp at the level of yours.
In the Purity line, we do have a pair of single ended PSE 300B mono lblocs that use technology that has never before been seen in the industry. Mostly in the design of the output transformers. As you know, such inovention does not come cheaply.
Please note this post is not intended to come across as a sales pitch. It's just nice being involved in a thread where we can express our ideas that not everyone in the hobby can appreciate.
Too many threads turn in debates and attacks.
I am looking forward to see the completion of these amps and will follow your other thread now with great interest.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program!
Response, Your post does not come across as an attempt at free advertising to me. Just because I may not be buying, I still like to hear about those pushing the envelope and/or thinking outside the box. Good luck in your projects, you and Ait!
The amps are extreme, but remember, your microwave uses similar voltages, and a CRT TV uses voltages 10X higher. It's about common sense, fail safe protection circuits, and not working on it after a few beers.