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New VPI 3D Arm

At last I have the arm in place and set up - though I think the tweak adjustments are still far from done. I had in place a VPI 10.5i arm with a Benz LPS, on a Superscoutmaster/Rim Drive with Bearpaws in place of the original VPI mini feet. The rest of the system is an Ayre K1xe preamp with their phono board in place, an Ayre V1xe amp, and Vandersteen 5A speakers. I set the new 3D arm with a MINT protractor, and a Fozgometer. The arm was sent to me with a standard rear counterweight of 120 grams that included a Soundsmith Counterintuitive to ease the setup. How Nice I said to myself, however, Harry himself recommended a 200 gram counterweight because my cartridge was so heavy. The new weight was sent to me, without the Counterintuitive...when I inquired why not, it seems that the C/I wouldn't fit the larger, heavier counterweight that was needed for my cartridge. So..off I go to set up the new arm. Let me tell you the setup is the clunkiest, most time consuming, most exasperating work, I have ever tried. I just gave up after many hours, and contacted VPI to vent. Harry told me that if I oiled the inside grommets of the rear counterweight, it would move much easier/smoother....and so it did, however, I would grade it as a D+...better than the F before, but not good at all. When moving the counterweight it still gripped the tonearm make any kind of precise movement a matter of luck. Harry told me he was working on (almost done - ready to market in about a month) a new counterweight system that would permit easy fine tuning with no problems. I suggest anyone who is about to get a 3D arm to insist that the new counterweight be included with your purchase. Harry promised me one of these, and I will report on these pages when I get it and how well it works. Anyway...probably most of you want to know how the new arm sounds. I must remind you that the arm is still new and really not tweaked to the nth degree. My first album told me immediately that this arm was completely different than the 10.5i (which I think is a great arm when set up correctly). The music from the speakers with this arm is completely relaxed....that hits you in face immediately. I'm not sure I can explain it further then "relaxed". When playing Paul Simon's new album with the 10.5i, I had to strain to hear the words to the tunes....which was odd to me since Paul's prowess as a poet is hard to criticize. With the 3D arm, the words and Paul's talent is completely exposed. Instruments are much more rounded and in their own space - individually...as in real instruments playing. Right now, I would describe the low end as a bit weak, however, the cables are not broken in yet, and back end of the arm just may be too high. After all of the aggravation and hours of setup, I'm not ready to adjust anything yet...just want to rediscover my vinyl. This is a work in process, and I will post again.
128x128stringreen

Showing 15 responses by hiendmuse

hiendmuse
257 posts
 
I don't think Mikey is the end all be all when it comes to analog. That being said, I cannot think of any other single individual who has done more to help advance the interest and popularity of LP's and turntables and the rebound it's had over the past several years.

For that he deserves more credit than what some on this forum are giving him.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Well I finally pulled the trigger and ordered a 10" 3D tonearm for my Super Scoutmaster Reference table with rim drive. I'm really looking forward to getting it!
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Thanks Stringreen,I ordered the 180 gram weight as that is what is recommended for my Lyra Titan-i cartridge on the VPI website.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Stringreen I assume you used the same Mint protractor for the 10.5 arm as for the new 3D arm, correct? I figured both arms have the same overhang dimensions.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Anyone set up cartridge with redesigned counterweight for the 3D tonearm? If you did I'd like to know how it worked out overall. Thanks.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
I got a Counter Intuitive for my 10.5i tonearm but found it would not adjust properly when using my Fozgometer- the readings were very erratic. When I removed the Counter Intuitive from the counterweight I was able to adjust azimuth and got much more stable readings on the Fozgometer. I'm hoping that the redesigned counterweight will allow me to adjust azimuth without going crazy.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Stringreen, are you using the anti-skate device with the 3D arm?
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Stringreen I agree, it would be much more convenient if VPI had devised a quick release for the anti-skate from the tonearm instead of having to remove the counterweight and completely readjusting- a complete waste of time to check anti-skate vs. no anti-skate. Even a "T" at the end of the line with a slot to fit in and out of the side of a small clamp would be fine.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
I received my new 10" 3D tonearm. Unfortunately the 180 gram counterweight that came with it apparently is the type for the thinner metal JMW tonearm- the opening is too small to fit the thicker diameter 3D tonearm. The thumbscrew that came with it does not fit (has the smaller hex head), and did not come with a Counter Intuitive.

The 180 gram weight is recommended by VPI on their website for the 3D arm and a Lyra Titan-i, but I'm thinking that this may be too heavy. I am using a lighter counter weight for my metal 10.5i arm- the weight is further away from the pivot and closer to the end. i sent Harry an email and hopefully this will be resolved soon. I am looking forward to setting this arm up.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Mat emailed me very early this morning (2:30am) after I sent my last thread immediately responding to my email to Harry and said he will be sending me a new counterweight for the 3D arm on Monday. I have found that VPI offers very good customer service, although sometimes it can take a little longer than at other times, but they have always come through and solved any challenges in a very satisfactory manner.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Hi Mat,

Thanks for your response. We spoke yesterday (my name is Gary). We also talked about a different platter and bearing.

How long will it take to machine a new 180 gram counterweight to fit the 3D arm and also accommodate the CounterIntuitive? Hopefully this will also include the new fine counterweight and thumbscrew.

You have my email and phone # from previous emails.

Thank you!
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Great Service- thank you Mat!!

I just received the new counterweight this morning before 10am from VPI which was Fed Ex'd overnight. Now I have the latest 180 Gram counterweight with fine adjustment and CounterIntuitive installed for my new 3D arm.

I'll be working on installing up my cartridge over the weekend.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Well, I started to set up my 3D tonearm and ran into a snag. After installing the new tonearm bearing and tonearm rest, I found that the azimuth weight on the left side of the arm hits the VTA tower- there is not enough clearance between the tonearm and VTA tower for the tonearm to move!

Very frustrating!

I sent Mat an email. In the meantime I found that the VPI website shows a BLACK colored VTA tower with substantially more room between the 3D tonearm and VTA tower. This is a different design. My VTA tower and assembly is the silver color, so I believe the fix for this is getting the black tower (hopefully).

Stringreen, did you have this challenge with your 3D arm setup?
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
Mat emailed me late last night and said there are different clearances between the black and silver color towers, so I requested the black VTA tower instead of having the side azimuth weights shaved down.

Also, the 180 gram counterweight specified for my Titan-i cartridge seems to be too heavy when including the weight of the CounterIntuitive, so a lighter counterweight is needed. The standard counterweight is a tight fit on the 3D arm so making slight and precise adjustments without the CounterIntuitive will be a real challenge and a test of one's patience.

Mat has been very responsive and eager to help take care of the 3D tonearm issues. I am impressed with his timely emails and willingness to address these glitches. Mat and VPI are a class act.
hiendmuse
257 posts
 
I finally installed my cartridge onto the 3D tonearm for my Super Scoutmaster Rim Drive Reference table with Classic platter. I drove to VPI (about an hour from my home) and they helped get the right counterweight and made a few preliminary adjustments to the arm (Thank you Leo!!) as I was shipped a 180 gram weight for the JMW metal arm included with the 3D arm which does not fit on the 3D arm. They also changed the mounting base for my VTA tower, as the 3D arm was hitting the side of the tower on the original baseplate. The 180 gram weight is way too heavy for the Titan-i cartridge which was previously recommended on the VPI website for this cartridge. I believe I ended up with a 140 gram weight with a small fine counterweight adjustment attached.

The CounterIntuitive that came with the 3D arm was too tight on the counterweight and very difficult to adjust even after putting on some oil, so I did away with it, which made adjusting VTF & azimuth easier. I also started using the SoundSmith cartridge screws (aluminum) but found that the high profile made it more difficult to adjust azimuth, so I ended up using regular screws with tiny washers which came with the SoundSmith screws. All in all I spent about 10 hours installing the cartridge, as the Mint LP protractor is extremely precise with very thin lines.

I used the Mint LP protractor for this arm, as I had also used it for the 10.5i tonearm. I used a Fozgometer, a CartridgeMan digital force gauge and digital level, a magnifying glass and a good hand-held LED light (Larry brand).

I will make a separate review of the 3D arm, but my initial listening shows that this arm brings more music, more information, is tonally more accurate, and is more detached from the speakers with more impact and better attack, sustain, and decay.

I want to thank Mat and Harry at VPI for their help, support, and hospitality. They were truly great to deal with and helped correct the glitches with the 3D arm. I was also invited to Harry's house to listen to his various listening rooms with different systems- I thought I was in audio heaven- it was great to listen and spend some time there while my tonearm and turntable were being adjusted and corrected. Harry is truly a music lover and audiophile of the highest order. Thank you again Harry & Mat!!! You guys rock!!!
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