I'll second that emotion of bi wiring. Absolutely! The 'data link' is purely a stop gap measure. just to get 'er up and running.
personally I don't understand why a loudspeaker system costing around ten grand needs have some such short cut approach that limits performance in the first place. Albert must have gotten a super deal on them OR it sure seemed a good idea at the time. Beats me. it does seem counter intuitive to have such compromise in a speaker system which proports uncompromised sound quality, huh?
In fact I would have thought the bi wire span to have been addressed too in further itterations. Resolving the issues of 'special' bi wire cables being required thereafter. Oil well.
Definitely do add another set of speaker wires to the bass module though. Regardless how. A shotgun is a thought. I have two sets of bi wire spkr. cables supplying my JRs. Didn't plan it that way, just sort of happend. The span of the bi wires was not long enough to suitablly fit from the bottom most posts to the TM. With either set. so I grabbed out of the closet some others. Violin! things improved! Although now similar cables in brand name only, (different models), things are better overall.
Long story short, even some romex will be better used as a jumper than is the 'data link', or some cable jumpers like from whom ever your speaker cable choice is. I'd think that the least expense and a good way to go. Wish I had that thought back then.
in effect, you have four speakers there. Using separate spkr cables for each might have some advantage. Depends on your prefs. The flexibility is inherent in the VR4 - ?? series. Take advantage.
Jumnpers - Shotgun - custom bi wires - or bi amping.
Not too many others force upon you, or give you, those added costs/options. the perspective of it all is on the buyer, as part and parcel in making the move to them.
About that 'auditioning' bit? Get one asap. the dealership which did carry them in my area, carries them no more, two others I spoke with are getting out of being a VSA dealer soon. A direct result of the 'online' sales agreement between Albert and Higher Fi. The dealers now, simply can not make money with them facing that resource. Dealerships would be simply look see joints, and retain no sales unless they were to meet the online mark. which in all, with the chips flatly on the table, they shouldn't have to. especially if they offer even support on site.
It's gonna be interesting to see what happens. Alberts an innovator. gotta give him credit for trying new avenues for wholesale distribution. Gee. it might be a good idea with so many brick & mortar spots pointing to HT as their prime focus... it does appear however that the "try before you buy" plan no longer seems important enough a measure of consequence for the consumer. Albeit, with even a 30 day period for refusal, (if that even is being done by Higher Fi) and the exceptional break in times of the JR & I suspect the SR as well, only a short time for true eval will be rendered. Hmmm.
Next stop? Cutting out the middleman, or Higher Fi in this case. who knows? it could happen. I don't think Tyler acoustics is having any trouble with selling to the public all by itself.
I guess it's not a big reach for those current VSA owners looking to step up in the VSA line to buy on reputation solely. For prospective owners, though, well it'll be interesting at the very least. in spite of the newly added encumberances, I'd not take them off my list. Provided I could get the prospective units wisely. Popularity will help out a lot in that respect. As will owners posting their thoughts so those so imclined to buy can get some feel of them in any event.
Wow! Altruistic salespeople. Waht a concept!
I still am interested in the SR as a move up for myself. the best sentiment I've heard about them is with regard to the JR performance. The statement was "whatever your getting with the JR now, you'll get more of it with the SR."
As I spoke with VSA recently as to what the upgrade afforded one in the JR, I was told "it's a complete redo." Different drivers, X over, damping...etc A whole new ball game" the loacl dealer said "it's a different sounding speaker for sure. Speaking of the JR MK II".
IT'S INTERESTING TO HEAR THE sr mk ii IS JUST A TWEETER CHANGE? As important as that one thing can be, I did think it to be a lot more. Like new x over fiddling and such.. Whatever the case, VSA does make some fine performing loudspeaker systems.
Do have fun and do add some wires vs using the link. |
That might well be. changing out drivers likely would necessitate x over changes. Hmmm. see, I got it a different way. Ask VAudio. Chris mentioned to me once that his ordering of a pair of SR's included changes in the X over at his request. Albert then liked the changes and figured to add them into a upgraded model... or something along those lines. I don't recall being sworn to secrecy about it.
X overs are a way big part of speakers. they'll make or break one. naturally there is more... but that X sure is important... and there's a bunch of gizmos in a fourth order like in the VR's. |
you know, "Ozzy" is right. We went through this on another thread about the JRs. In fact a dealer told me to use all four of the bass mods posts!. yep, it's true. take out the plates or leave them in, I heard no diff on the JRs. BUT do hook to the lowest posts and the highest posts. Ever how you want to do it. Jumpers, Shotguns. or extended bi wires.
Wow! I'm still amazed why that extra set of posts is there anyhow... couple pieces of wire inside sure would be better, and less the enigma.
Ozzy, did you get the MK II's?
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If customer service is entirely quantified by access... I'd say there is surely a great deal of room for improvment at VSA.
If however it is based upon what takes place upon contact with VSA, I'd have to admit still some room for improvement is needed. Efforts to contact them I have made go without resolution unless contact is positively made. At that point, they have been quite satisfactory. Such is my experience.
I've no crystal ball, but when businesses go strickly via the net, forcing the store fronts to withdraw as viable outlets for that product line due to the profit being cut severely by such a move, the 'face' of the company becomes veiled or hidden completely. Add to that now but a meager accessibility from those buying the goods, it does not bode well for the customer base... past, present or future.
The only reason I can see for taking such a path is to shoot for volume. I'd say some other cost cutting measures are involved, but I've no idea about the financial arrangements between VSA and the dealerships.
Customer service usually finds itself lacking woefully too. Customer service is paramount in web only based operations I would think. A solid pipeline for the customer has to be in place beforehand. After the fact is a bit telling of a move not completely well thought out.
All may be well yet. Maybe. if Albert, or anyone in this "cottage industry at it's finest....???" really wants to make money and increase it's market share, they need add their hads to financing. that's what made Sears, "SEARS". It sure wasn't their catalog... though it helped.
Dramatic moves in business stem from real or percieved as real, dramatic issues. Whatever the case actually is, obtaining an 'estranged' customer base is no positive benefit.
How good is a 10 year warranty if there is no one available to attend to service or support issues when they arise?
Keep trying to call. I've had success getting through in the mid to late afternoon (EST).... LEAST THEY COULD DO IS GET A 800 NUMBER.... and return calls. No one leaves a message asking for help or info just to waste time. I'd bet things will get better soon enough... or they'll go through some major restructureing. |
Joiseyguy
I've had success dealing with VSA, myself. I believe I did say as much... once contact was made. in fact in refference to ozzy's current issue with the threaded gromet in the base of the top module, one of my issues surrounding my JR's was similar. Though, nowhere near as severe as OZZY's issue. Mine was with a 'plinth'. No color matching problems there.
The previous owner may have tried moving them about after spiking them, I can't say for sure, but one of the bass modules self same 'threaded insert' twisted within the plinth enough to de-stablize the speaker itself.
Naturally I called in to obtain a replacement plinth. Simple. Defective material or workmanship most likely. Could happen to any speaker i suppose.
The initial resolution was for me to do a likewise "OZZY" repair by obtaining some materials from the hardware store too... removal and reinsertion with more adhesives.
Sorry, but no. Not gonna become a support tech for VSA, or anyone else for that matter. Not when the problem can be fixed as new by just providing a new OEM part (s). Perhaps it's a minor thing in all... but to me, having been BOTH a service tech and customer support manager previously, I've never attempted to enlist the aid of the owner to fix a mechanical or electrical problem while a unit is under warranty. Ever. It's simply not done. Well, I never did even think of it.
To VSA's good, I was sent a brandy new pair of plinths not long there afterwards, as I had no need for rush service and they didn't have any on hand right then either. soon as they had them, they shipped mine to me.
On other albeit minor items, the 'caps' for the locking nuts came off when I was tightening them by hand. Just popped free of the metal nut to which they were attached without undue pressure, IMO. Two of them. Sure. A minor deal. Still, an irritating affair which does in part point to the use of less than quality pieces being used in the construction... or the lack of a decent QA program.
Past those minor irritants, for quite some time I was having major issues with being able to properly set up the speakers. For about a year or so I called, emailed, and ultimately spoke with albert at length about the problem. he assured me nothing could be 'cross wired' in the upper module. I felt a tweeter was mis firing or out of phase, or something... or I was simply nuts. Albert did try to obtain for me some local service for them but ultimately he was dissatisfied with the level of the local service agency apparently and did not follow up on it with me.
Albert to his credit did tell me he would give me an RA so i could return them for service, but servicing them would likely be at least a month, perhaps more once they recieved them.
To make a long story more monotonous, a couple months ago I could no longer handle the intermittently errant sounding units and obtained an R.A.#.
I fashioned the box to secure both top mods and sent them to VSA for inspection and/or repair (s) a few days later. they got them in the day prior to thanksgiving.
Eventually they found one front tweeter to be bad. were simply going to replace it and send them back. hearing that resolution, I asked they replace it's twin as well so there would be some degree of uniformity with the changes being made. I also said I would pay for the second tweeter as only one was bad. i was told to call back. I did. Several times till I got through. this was mid Decenber.
I got through just before Xmas. they were not yet repaired and had now been there a month. OK. Fine. time was not the issue. Communication was, however.
At some point i was told ALL four tweeters were being replaced. Well, OK! Super. i dreaded the breakingg in period but believing all will be well soon, I had no problem there.
If it seems I'm taking VSA to task, think again. these are jus the main facts. As best I can relate them. Certainly I'm pleased with the outcome, as all is well now and 40% of the drivers have been replaced, according to VSA.
Standard service related follow upQuierries for quality assurance updates usually ask by degrees, just how satisfied are you with the level of the service you recieved?
Very? Somewhat? Not at all? Comnpletely disjointed by thw whole affair?
Right? Well there's the rub. I simply can not in complete honesty say I am 100% satisfied i was provided exemplary service on the whole.
I will also, in an effort to gain any reader of this a proper perspective here, say I am fairly critical of these aspects having been on both sides of this coin myself in past jobs.
I do in fact think VSA is doing it's best currently to accomodate it's buying public on every level. I just propose that their best can and should be better than its current state of affairs.
it's like this... you buy a new whatever... something goes wrong not long after and you call for service... can't get through... and then call repededly. You leave messages which are not replied to. Then finally you get through and their first solution is for you to fix it yourself.
Those are not the words I really ant to hear, personally.
That should NEVER be a 'first response' solution. it should a "last resort". Regardless. it is just not professional nor does it bolster my confidence in that company.
I also get 'it' that we are buying equipement from companies run by builders, designers, engineers, and geniuses in some cases, by and large. not businessmen.
that's as should be. to a point. A true major leaguer will provide more than product. true quality of any product, IMO, lies not in simple performance or grandiose assurances. real quality is the whole of the experience. it's the whole ball of wax for any serious buyer. performance, fit and finish, assurances, support, accessibility and availability. find any 'one' of those facets lacking and it is tainted. Find another, and its' fabric begins to unravel as it is seen for what it is.
it's also a simple matter to remedy. some focus, some money, some comittment, and some time is all that's necessary. I'm optimistic VSA will do the right thing by and for, it's customer base... not just by and for some press.
I hope so. I've not ruled them out for my next speaker upgrade yet... but if you think getting in touch with VSA is a bother... call B&W, and see how far you get. Hoo boy! |
Tvad ...I agree. Though I can't help but think Mr. V is aware of the goings on with his service & Q.A. departments. I feel it's a people thing at VSA. A need for 'more' or more 'qualified' is simply evident.
VSA product performance is fine, but as I said and others pointed at as well, there's more to products than performace to cost ratios. Surely some reassessment (s) are needed, or needed to be put in force.
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Tvad... now that's funny. Very nice.
I think though, in all seriousness, VSA product performance is not the issue. rather how issues are handled by VSA currently. getting a bigger piece of market shre by providing exceptionally performing and hence wildly popular pieces, has it's responsibilities.
Newbee
Ditto. it is funny to see two prices at the same time. That's a mighty slim way to justify the 'sale' price, and even slimmer way to support the MSRPs value. Funnier still is now, anyone buying and later selling their units will surely use the over inflated MSRP (which no one pays) to support it's worth.
...funny, I don't feel as grungy as Tvad about my speakers. Maybe Tvad DID pay MSRP! |
Ozzy
The nomenclature of the thread size is at the website... or was... the funny part of it is Albert says you can go to the hardware store to get any or all of the fasteners, screws etc. Then I happend upon the thread sizes of the spikes, either in the manual or online at the wegsite, and it's a European 'metric' thread diameter and count per cm. Wonder what hardware store Albert uses?
but oh, yes, larger spikes do help a lot. Mine are twice if not more the mass of stock ones.
BTW on the Big FAT Dots? A Friend of mine uses them too, though he said the 'change' didn't happen till he had five in there. Like an X I guess.
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...or perhaps an "easy out" tap bit might remove the grommet and another, a wee bit larger can then be inserted as a replacement. I've used the "easy-out" to remove busted bolts and screws where you couldn't lock onto them with anything like pliers or vise grips.
Finding out if the outside of the insert is threaded or not, and how they are first set into the module will be helpful I'm sure. |
Hi Douglas_schroeder Thanks for the insights.
Understandably then, it would naturally follow to ask, "Who is in charge of the public relationns and customer service, and what are their plans to improve it?" Wouldn't it be appropriate to assume, if higher Fi is contracing the sales rights for the product (s), albert is left solely to the creative facet, then is there still another hand in the pot? one being contracted to handle strickly support? the latter makes no sense.... but if it is not the Creator or 'dealer' who then would or should that fall to?
...fitting in the 'when' along with that previously posed, 'where' inquiry, would also be most welcome news. Regarding our viewing of your report, of course.
Being satisfied with the current "hit & miss" approach with customer service relations, is like cutting one's nose off to spite one's face. Doubtless any good can come of it as it stands. Moreover, it is quite the myopic begining of a turn over, or 'turn around' to either increased revenues or higher levels of efficiency.
Lastly, that $100M figure... where'd that come from? I'm hard pressed to accept a company which can generate a per anum, hundred million U.S. dollars does not have the fiscal wherewithall to provide for adequate consumer services prior to, during, or after some change of business philosophy.
Wholesale changes for retail benefit. Someone overlooked amending 'infrastructure' apparently. it smacks of a less than well thought out plan that can prove quite a bumpy transition. perhaps for everyone, but certainly for the consumer. |
Gammajo
yes ...but there's been far more clarity.
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Douglas_schroeder Thanks so very much.
Any ball park time frame for it?
If you could think to obtain some clarity as to the income sources, ie., patents, sales, consultant fees, etc. THAT would be very enlightening. Contrasting those given figures to other 'leading' loudspeaker manufacturers, even more so.
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Douglas_schroeder thanks. You are both forthcoming and perceptive.
I asked those questions primarily because I felt ambiguous or grandiose statements about company revenues can be and are misleading. if taken superficially, without some measure of depth, the numbers are simply self-effacing and tenuous. Not being a 'public' company, and with no visible ledger for factual determination, numbers such as those hold near no value without being reproved.
Perhaps a zero was misplaced. Perhaps two. My consternation with unsupported allegations such as those, in light of the current stress being felt by both VSA and it's consumer base, don't truly support each other. Nor would they support the need for such wide and sweeping changes as seems the current "online only" retail scheme.
Confidence, unlike profits, is immeasureable. I see more at stake here for VSA than streamlining for efficiency and profit margins.
I, for one, enjoy the product performance VSA engenders to items it offers. Until recently both the quality level and price to performance ratio have been a true winner in several spots across the line ups array. Recent escalation of product pricing and de-escalation of tangible consumer services seem at odds. Add to that the removal of hands or ears on access to the buying public and the resultant mix is a very bold move if production capacity is stilll true to form and one which is less inspirational in total.
I truly wish VSA a very long and prosperous turn around as albert is surely a resource for true genius and implementation of design architecture in loudspeaker evolution. Add to that the very nature of competition which promotes for the buyer a better set of choices and it would be a very sad day to see such a star extinguished by itÂ’s own hand or some other perceptual lack.
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