New vinyl's noisy little secret

Hi Zowie
can you provide a link at all?

Bill,
do you think anyone of the industry will read all about this? I'd wish so very much.

Meanwhile I buy 20c second-hands and clean them.
I have noted that those are AT LEAST as good in terms of noise, as some new Classic re-issues.
The new stuff is dynamic, most of it anyway, but the more you clean it, the noisier it seems to get...
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Zenblaster
y.s:
>>> Aren't records mastered on metallic plates?<<<

Well, firstly mastering was/is done on tape.
Digital mastering on tape also, and later on with digital, on hard drives, on digital master consoles etc. etc.

I guess what you are referring to is the DMM process (Direct Metal Master) which came pretty much at the end of the vinyl process --- and was supposed to cut out a lot of the 'normal' vinyl processing i.e. to create superior quality LPs (the price reflected this too).

Normal processing was cutting a 'lacquer' (disk) from the tape master by applying RIAA when the cutting lathe produced/cut it.

From the lacquer was produced a 'father' from which was produced a mother (all by electro-plating) from this 'mother' were then produced the stampers of numerous generations.

I hope I got most this right. So I think your idea of 78s! being produced with metal masters seems a bit off.

As you can see a lot of delicate manual work went/goes into the 'normal' process with plenty of opportunity to screw it up. Also the 'father 'pulled' from the 'lacquer' needed to get some hand 'cleaning' (under the microscope picking out residue etc.) followed by polishing also a labour intensive job and rather delicate.

DMM has/had its own issues, and cost was not the least to say. But it did produce a superior product just by looking at it. Those disks are/were also usually a LOT more quite in terms of groove noise.

I'm sure e.g. Atmasphere may be able to correct or corroborate the above.
Greetings,
Axel

:-) Zenblaster
that's funny and sad at once.
I was NEVER aware that direct(was it?)-metal-mastering was already done in the 20s - 30s!

In fact, I have no real knowledge of the actual process. All I understand is, that in place of a lacquer (cut with a diamond) a metal disc is cut from which then the stampers (I guess!) would be 'pulled'.
This cuts down a couple of steps from the normal process. But that cutter (of the cutting lathe) will have some tough job, and I guess plenty more diamonds will be used.
In fact, that disk would have to be non-ferrous (some alu-alloy mix I guess) since one can not use diamonds cutting ferrous metals.

Cheers,
Axel

Hi, just to try and keep this a bit less cryptic:
note:
"pre-echo associated with conventional lacquer mastering are eliminated and transient response is greatly improved. DMM record pressing sound brighter, cleaner, more detailed, with 15% more playing time than with lacquer technology. Stampers are plated directly from the DMM Copper Master, eliminating two of the three plating steps required for lacquers."

AND

"direct metal mastering (DMM) : A system for cutting a metal mother on a record mastering lathe, eliminating the lacquer master and metal master steps. Release pressings made from a stamper are thus only two stems from the DMM and thus have less noise and distortion than those made by the older, five-step process. The DMM process is also used in CD mastering."

Also:

"DMM is a modern process, developed by Teldec in Germany. Rather than cutting a lacquer, then plating, then creating a mother then stampers, you use the DMM cut disc as the mother and create stampers directly from that. Hence 2 steps saved. So, the theory is the steps saved lead to fewer "generations" in the record-making process, hence better sound."

No misinformation this far as i can see.
My own information is derived from the current (non-metal master) of the Pallas press-plant from an article in Image HiFi some time past.

I think the mis-information is about 'metal-masters' (i.e. not master*ing*?) of the pre-tape , so:

http://www.virtualvictrola.com/2008/03/metal-parts.html

will provide some, if not most of those pre-tape aera answers.

Greetings,
Axel

Hi,
not trying to be mean about those old 78s, but only listening to some early mono versions of 'His masters Voice' (By Appointment to Her Majesty, before the birth of EMI, etc.) easily 180g vinyl if not more ---- sooooory.

You got to be some collector to get a rise from it. Those micros had some darn bad distortions and as far as I can say just about the inverse of even mid/low-fi :-) Toscanini through a megaphone, oh no!

In German we say: "Jedem Tierchen sein Pläsierchen..."
In this here (SA) part of the world the stuff is junked on a daily basis, since it also breaks so easily. So sorry for that.
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Oh, too bad --- I have: JavaScript turned off.
Because of all the malware BS, and I'm not thinking of turning it on. Guess I have to miss this one :(
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Doug, :-)
and you do sound so sure of that now.
He had a pretty serious 'fascist' conducting style and known for it.
The likes of Reiner, and Karajan pale! And then there would Munch, Dorati, Ansermet, Kubelic, Beechham, Kertesz, Monteux --- just to mention a few, and NON would sound like through a mattress :-) Eish!
Next we gonna argue about osmium-needles and their contribution to a more high-end 78 sound, eish!
Are you then also a shellack collector?
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