New Turntable: Teres, Nottingham, Origin?

I love Origin Live. The design is very compact and the table produces both fine musicality and a wonderful combination of punch and detail. It's a table that makes me forget to listen critically. I'm not suggesting there aren't other fine tables, but Origin Live seems to really home in on the music.

Dear Bill: I'm only a music fan.
I think that the best you can do is to go for.

Acoustic Signature Final Tool, Moerch DP-6 with a Sumiko Celebration cartridge ( if you already have the 501 it will be fine with the Moerch tonearm ). This analog front end is very hard to beat and certainly not for any of your three choices.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul, How would characterize the sound of the Celebration as compared to a Benz? I am considering both the Celebration and a Benz Woodbody L2 to be used in my DP-6 with a 12" Red armwand. I have been using a Glider M2 which I really like, and that has me leaning towards the Benz. I also have a 103R which is not fully broken in yet, but so far I am only lukewarm on its sound. Thanks in advance for your comments.

FWIW, somewhere in the archives there's a discussion of a dealer-hosted TT shootout. This was two years ago or so. The dealer moved the same arm/cartridge (OL Illustrious + Shelter?) from table to table. A dozen or so listeners agreed to the following results:

1st/2nd: tie between Nott' Hyperspace/Teres 255
3rd: Nott' Spacedeck
4th: Basis (lower priced model than Spacedeck, so no surprise)
5th: Clearaudio (similar priced model to Basis)

Both then and now the 255 was priced $1,000 below the Hyperspace, making it a clear winner for price/performance.

I'm sure the OL's are nice tables, but the Resolution's plinth, armboard and platter make it unlikely that it would keep up with any Teres model. I'd also expect Raul's favorite, the Acoustic Signature Final Tool, to outplay it. Teres gave up on their all-acrylic line quite a while ago. The sonics simply didn't justify the price point. Even the 245's unweighted platter masses nearly as much as the entire OL table. IMO there's just not enough there there.

I seem to remember that shoot-out, which was extended by a few more tables and arm/cartridge combos subsequently. But, now that the source is revealed, maybe it takes on a lesser meaning.

But, to clarify, some listeners preferred the Hyperspace to the 255, some adamantly so. Others gave the nod to the 255. So, on that basis, it could be considered a tie, I suppose. I would respectfully disagree that because the 255 is $1000 cheaper, that makes it the “clear winner”, though. First, some very much preferred the Hyperspace, with cost not entering the equation. OTOH, and I have to agree with Raul's point in another thread on this, it only shows that some preferred the Hyperspace or the 255 with the Illustrious and the Shelter. Doesn't mean the same result would occur if, say, both tables were fitted with a different arm and cartridge. As an example, I'm sure (from experience) that there are arm/cartridge combos that would allow the Hyperspace to clearly best the 255 and some that would allow the 255 to exceed the Hyper in comparison. Thus, the previous results we experienced were somewhat limited - if not at least partially helpful. I will not descend into the endless qualifiers argument with respect to comparisons. Suffice it to say that precious few of us have the time and/or money (at least I don’t) to compare every iteration of table/arm/cartridge/cable/isolation/motor/etc. combos to see which have the ultimate synergy with each, so our comparisons are better than none, perhaps. With respect to the $1000 price difference, I believe that is with consideration of the retail cost of the Hyperspace as listed by some dealers. They can be had for less than retail, of course, and unless I am mistaken, Teres prices already have the direct-to-consumer price built in, so no further discount is applicable. As such, the actual realized price difference between the tables may be less.

With respect to the 245, my opinion was that the performance of the Spacedeck (original platter NOT the later, and IMHO inferior, “heavy” kit) was better to my ears and with four or five different arm/cart combos. In fact, in the original shoot-out, while the Spacedeck finished behind the Hyper and 255, it was surprisingly close (talk about value performance ratios!). I will apologize for not remembering the combos in the subsequent comparison specifically (I have notes SOMEWHERE). Interestingly, or not, the Resolution was part of one of those subsequent comparisons, too, and fell short of both tables (Space and 245) in terms of detail and low end clarity. Too, it is my opinion that the OL tables are not up to the fit and finish as should be expected when putting that level of dough down for a table. I will hasten to add that it has been about 18 months since I last closely examined an OL table and things may well have improved in the interim.

In general terms, the Not tables are supported very well by the designer, Tom Fletcher, and he is very accessible, though it entails a call to England. On the other hand, the US distributor for Not is very much less than “user-friendly”, in my experience. The Teres line, is also supported very well by the designer and the call, if needed, is rather more “local”. Both tables enjoy a large following and help is available in a variety of venues. I have not had experience with OL customer service with respect to tables (though I have with arms) and have really not heard many second-hand accounts of experiences with respect to tables.

Here in the UK we wonder why the Origin Live tables get consistently good reviews in the magazines. (I'm sure it's nothing to do with the amount of advertising they do in hifi mags!

On the discussion boards the consensus is that no-one knows anyone who has actually bought one!

I haven't heard a Teres yet, but I would be prepared to trust the weight of opinion in its favour.

Following Raul's consistent championing of the Final Tool, I emailed Acoustic Signature for details of UK dealers. Haven't had a reply 10 days later. :-(

Red

4yanx,
Thanks for clarifying. Excellent points all the way through, as usual. I'd forgotten that the Spacedeck came so close to the top two. Value for $ indeed.

One wonders how a Teres 160 would compare. CB himself says it outplays the 245, which makes perfect sense. Lead shot in the platter *should* sink resonances better than heavier hardwood in the plinth.

Teres 245 at 2500
SME 309 at 1000 from Hong Kong
Shelter 501 at 560 from HOng Kong

Last turntable you'll need.

Hi Flyingred. Actually, the Origin Live tables get very good reviews even from those who don't accept advertising (e.g., Bound for Sound). The Origin Live tonearms have very good reviews from users here on the 'Gon. Why aren't more sold? Beats me. I can only speculate.

Separately, I'm not convinced that mass alone is the driver behind good sound in a table. As with all things audio, the design and execution of all parts together is what makes things tick. Taking that a bit further, it's likely that a table that sounds great plugged into one system may not perform as well in another. So, I'd certainly "try before you buy" at home with any component, especially one as critical as a table.

4yanx brings up a good point with service. I've not needed any so can't speak to it. The dealer I use is very accessible and always willing to help.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Raul, I'm sure the Final Tool is an excellent TT. Judging sound reproduction has objective parameters, but within certain parameters there are a wide range of subjective factors, including taste, that influence our judgements. But appearance or looks is almost completely subjective; it's just a matter of taste. In this regard, I do not find the Final Tool TT to be visually appealing. It's not the ultimate issue, of course, but it does matter. The 3 tables I'm considering here I find very, very, very attractive--I simply like the looks of all 3 of them. And given what I consider to be the beauty and warm, inviting appearance of my other components, the Final Tool wouldn't fit in.

One of my concerns about the Teres is the ease of setup compared to the Nott' Spacedeck. I've read that the Teres is a TT for Tweakers. Although I love tweaking my system, (tube rolling is a "blast"), I don't enjoy fussing. Since there seem to be so many different things to "play around with--or tweak" with the Teres, I can see myself obsessing about whether everything is set up "correctly" or the best it can be. The whole point, for me, is to forget about listening to the equipment, and simply listen to the music.

Also, I've never read any specific comments on the two main wood choices for the Teres--Rosewood or Cocobolo. Is the latter really better for sound than the former?

Again, thanks for your comments, and please keep them coming.

Thanks, Bill

Since there seem to be so many different things to "play around with--or tweak" with the Teres, I can see myself obsessing about whether everything is set up "correctly" or the best it can be. The whole point, for me, is to forget about listening to the equipment, and simply listen to the music.

Bill,
I'm confused by this. What is there to play around with or tweak on a Teres? There are literally zero adjustments on mine. I go for weeks without tweaking anything but the on/off button! You don't even have to adjust speed, the Teres motor controller does that for you. Setup could be done by any concientious twelve year old who can read and follow instructions. Those are posted on the Teres website BTW. Give them a read, they may calm your concerns.

Much the same is undoubtedly true of the Final Tool, a Galibier or most other high-mass, unsuspended designs. "Set and forget" is truly how these tables work. Suspended decks like those from OL will necessarily require somewhat more attention.

Also, I've never read any specific comments on the two main wood choices for the Teres--Rosewood or Cocobolo. Is the latter really better for sound than the former?

Chris Brady describes the sound of the different woods on the website.

Doug