New TT for ~$1500


My birthday is coming up and I will be asking for a *new* TT. Budget is up to $1500, but preferably closer to $1k. I would be comfortable pitching in another few hundred $$$ for a good cartridge if I get a table without one. Was thinking:
Rega P3, maybe P6 if I really stretch the budget (that'd be over my $1500 mark)

MoFi StudioDeck
Clearaudio Concept (I have a lead on a lightly used one with low hours, bundled with an Artist V2 cart, but might make gift giving awk)

Pro-Ject X2 w/ Sumiko Moonstone

Any thoughts?

tas236

Showing 21 responses by chakster

Denon DP-80 is absolutely stunning Direct Drive, i’m so happy that i bought unused sample in mint condition, i’ve been reading audiogon contributors for a long time and finally decided to buy one for my collection, i prefer Denon base just for one tonearm. It’s compact and good looking, but i already have different turntables. That Denon DA-401 tonearm is very nice for high compliance carts.  

here is a nice vintage denon flyer

A Japanese classics, a must have in my opinion.
It’s crazy how low is the price for those DP-80 sometimes.

Last week i finally assembled another turntable for a friend, he prepared it for his daughter as a present, very nice. Technics SP-20 in SH10B3 with custom made armboard. 
Technics mk7 DIRECT DRIVE for $899
Do NOT buy a belt drive turntable if you have just $1500 (you will loose)

if you want the best in this price add $200 and buy SL1200GR in silver or black for $1700 and you will not find anything better than this (new) even with $4000 except luxury Technics higher model "G" 
Why does everybody have such a problem typing the word 'lose' ????!!!!!!!!


Nothing Toulouse if you're in France :) 
TEAC TN-300 this is attractive for you ? 
I'm afraid with a belt drive turntable like this you will never understand what is analog playback, those Music Hall, Pro-Ject and Rega are the same. Buying a turntable like this for $1500 is absolutely crazy, it must be $500 turntable max. 

Audiogon became a platform for questions like this, always Rega, Pro-Ject and related belt drive entry level stuff for systems based on wireless speakers or even usb devices. About 10 topics per week. 

The industry already buried ? It's crazy 


Alternative version: Luxman PD-441 (Direct Drive), not with Fidelity-Research tonearm, but with simplest tonearm. 
@stereo5 Haha, it's true. St.Petersburg is my home town.

To refresh your memory you have to watch this, because from this point of view the architecture of St.Petersburg is even better,sadly we can't fly like birds.  
Not sure what a poster meant by you will "lose" on a belt drive turntable at the $1500 price point...if I were you I would go for either the pro-ject x2 or move up to the new classic Evo @ $1599.

You will lose because those belt drive are inferior turntables and inferior technology in comparison to the brand new Technics SL1200 mk7 or especially the GR Direct Drive models with much better tonearm with VTA on the fly with removable headshell.

Also this is SPEED STABLE turntables, belt drive are not.

Those small companies like Pro-Ject or Rega simply can’t compete with Japanese GIANT like Matsushita, the reason Technics price is not twice as much is because they are making millions of units.

Even NEUMANN cutting lathe comes with Technics Direct Drive motor SP-02
THIS IS HOW OUR RECORDS ARE MADE, this is real deal, not mass market toys. 
Look at the catalog posted by jpjones

So we’re comparing apples to oranges here.

Those belt drive might be OK for $500, but for $1500 is a joke!

Technics SL1200GR for $1700 NEW is one of the best new DD available on the market and it’s a champion in this price for sure. Tonearm is very nice for the money.




Techics SP12 in the rubber plinth they made for it... I was totally disappointed in the flat, mechanical sound ...

Not sure why you mentioned this very old (SP12) entry level cheap model of Technics here ? This is probably a $100 turntable.

And what is a rubber plinth ?
Even in the 70’s their top model plinth was Obsidian, not rubber.

The best vintage technics is SP-10 mkII and SP-10 mk III.

BUT We’re talking about brand NEW Technics with completely different next generation modern DD motors, they are the best DD motors available today. You will find more about Technics reference class DD motor here.

The affordable version is SL1200GR for $1700 or SL1200G for $4000
Matsushita Electric Industrial , now Panasonic, has more than 100 years of history. Technics is a part of Matsushita. It was and still is a huge company. This is the real deal.

Long time ago people raved about Technics MM cartridges like this one, this model still goes for over $1k

I’m currently putting together technics system for a friend with EPA-100 tonearm and SP-20 direct drive in obsidian sh10B3 plinth. This is 100% vintage system. Here is my ex SP-10 mkII with EPA -100 and same cartridge.

Here is a long thread about Technics NEW turntables.

MM cartridges with mid compliance is what you need for Technics tonearms if you will ever buy Technics SL1200GR (or related Technics DD). Without breaking the bank this is one of the best under $450 (compliance 15cu at 10Hz, stylus type is Stereohedron and magnet is Samarium Cobalt, can be used for more than 1000 hours, this is LineContact type of the stylus). Find NOS and be happy. Expert Stylus Co in UK specialized in Pickering/Stanton service. NOS styli still available for this model if you’re lucky. Ask if you need help.

@audite84

Try the Hana EL. It is the new Denon 103 and considered to be better. Talking of vintage Technics cartridge, I bought a used EPC-205C MK3 with original stylus (still in good condition) a couple of years ago. This cartridge is very neutral sounding, just what a cartridge is supposed to, but still sounds analog and not flat sounding as my V15 IV-MR. I’ve read the EPC-100C is better but I haven’t heard it.

Denon is not better, it has conical stylus tip and low compliance, a very old design for super heavy tonearms.
Also don't forget about SUT or MC phono stage that you will have to add to the price. 

An MC cartridge for beginner is the worst as re-tip cost a lot and cartridge must be shipped back to the manufacturer for a long time (or to re-tipper).

I’ve mentioned some of the best Technics MM cartridges just to remind to others that Matsushita invented not only amazing DD turntables, but also made great cartridges with extremely low moving mass and super wide frequency response. Unfortunately the rubber material in cartridge suspension was a bad choice, they are all suffering from this problem in 30-40 years (softened suspension, cartridge almost laying down on the record surface). Jico S.A.S. is replacement for 205 series, but not for 100 series :( Another "problem" is elliptical stylus, they could use advanced profile, but they didn’t :( What was really great is Boron Pipe Cantilever.

One of the reasons why some other vintage cartridges are better is different stylus profile (stereohedron, micro ridge, line contact, micro line etc) and proper suspension.

Grace even made Boron Pipe cantilever, but with Micro Ridge stylus, i like Grace LEVEL II better. 

For beginner: user replaceable stylus is a must have, for this reason MM or MI only (not MC). 


@crustycoot

Don’t know enough to suggest a cartridge, but options abound. I use a vintage Grace F9 Ruby with great pleasure.

This is very nice, but the stylus on original Ruby (RS9R) is elliptical.
There are better profiles from Grace for F9, also profiles from FR14 (F14) are compatible with F9. Grace own Advanced Luminal Trace profile (RS14AL clear color) or those blue color profiles with "F" on them with LineContact type of the diamond.

You can read fremer’s review on Technics. Or watch this and compare :))

nothing wrong with a well designed 1500-2000 buck belt driven turntable! I have owned several in this price range and they all sounded great.


"Sounded great" for you, but you can’t even adjust VTA on those cheap tonearms.

Will you swap your nice Tannoy for Wireless speakers ? @audioguy85
Same about Technics and overpriced (entry level) belt drive toys
Chakster, I noticed you never recommend "Grado"; that’s my favorite cartridge, and I’ve tried many.

@orpheus10
That’s not true, maybe you missed my recommendations for Grado, find my grado between Pioneer PC-1000 mkII and Grace LEVEL II BR/MR. This is Joseph Grado Signature XTZ and this is what i have right now on my Denon DA-401 tonearm. This is the best Grado cartridge i ever tried, but i must say i did not try all Grados. Prior to this i’ve been using a lot (and still have them) a $150 Grado DJ200 which is based on cheap Grado Black, those are not for the main system.

Grado Signature XTZ is high-end MI cartridge from the 80’s, i love it!
XTZ styli are available from Grado



Dont buy a direct drive table unless you have at least $ 10,000 for the deck only.


and if you have $10k buy Technics SP10R (just the drive)

then read a little bit about the drive and buy SL1200G with the same motor for $3999 (for compete turntable with tonearm). 

still expensive? Look for SL1200GR for $1700 that is not far from "G"

Actually you don't have to spend $10k just for a reference Direct Drive even considering only NEW models. 

Denon DP-80 drive is $1500 and it's fantastic for the money, but it's from the 70's, anyway MINT condition units still available. This turntable will put in the dust all those new overpriced belt drive up to $10 000  


Chakster, what have you to say about this auction site?

@elliottbnewcombjr only if you pay with paypal with official invoice from the seller to get your paypal buyer's protection (and full refund if anything wrong or not arrived). Shipping delay is what you have to expect in the near future. Some sellers have no idea how to pack items for international transit and this is why they list on local sites for local sales only. 

Not sure why you're posting all these.
The OP already could buy some nice new turntable
@luisma31  

If i were you i would buy a better MM cartridge for this old Technics turntable, i would definitely rewire internal tonearm cable and external phono cable. Actually i've done that before with my pair of SL1210 mkII (added kab fluid dampers and isonoe feet, complete rewire with cardas internal and zu mission external wires/cables, but unbalanced). I was very happy with result, the most important is cartridge, the rest of this upgrade is very cheap, but you need superb MM or MI cartridge with advanced stylus profile and impressive sound quality. There are many of them available NOS. Over the years i've been buying all of them. 

It is nice to change a turntable too, but this is much more expensive and you can do that later when you will have a perfect cartridge to install on better Technics turntable. If you don't have the real killer cartridge then i don't think you have to start with new turntable. 

BUT if you have a budget for SL1200G go ahead, it can be your last turntable for the next 30 years :) 

P.S. Discogs is fine to buy records, i prefer original pressings from the 70's as most of my music is from that era. I don't like re-issues. 

 

 
@tas234

Hey all, OP here. I appreciate all of your responses and youve given me a lot to think about. I was initially set on a 1210GR after your responses here and elsewhere. With a Hana SL that is closer to an endgame system for me. Unfortunately, price is still too high.

If the price is too high simply buy used GR and don’t buy Hana SL, instead of this MC you can find a better deal on MM or MI cartridges.

When you buy used GR you can save some $$$ (no risk).
And if you want to go cheper with great Technics then simply buy MK7 for $899   

I'll second Chaksters recommendation on the vintage cartridge. I have a Audio Technica ML150 OCC moving magnet cartridge and this thing rocks. Current MM manufacturers don't hold a candle to this kind of build quality. I used to have a Ortofon 2M Black on a VPI Scout 1.1. Never could warm up to the sound and I'm pretty sure it was the cartridge and its shibato stylus that was the culprit.


Now you see Sam, some of them are real killers, i can imagine if you will ever try the AT-ML170 OFC or AT-ML180 OCC :) 

Shibata is great profile, but the cantilever is important and the generator is important, there is nothing new in the Ortofon 2M series that some nice vintage MM cartridges can't beat. 

AT-ML with its MicroLine stylus profile is a low moving mass design, thanks to Beryllium Pipe cantilever (not available anymore for cart manufacturers) and tiny diamond. 

Enjoy.  
OP here. I appreciate everyone's feedback. I went ahead and got an SL-1210GR with a Hana SL.


Great! I hope later you will find some MM or MI to compare different carts to your MC