New Thread on Steve Hoffman website that says Audiogon sucks


The funny thing is I feel the say way about the Hoffman site. I think it sucks!
taters
His(and Kevin Grey's) ears suck!
After some comments about A'gon; mostly neg, some pos, this was posted...

From The Rules :
Unacceptable Post Content : •Criticism of other forums (Let’s take the high road.)  
I read many forums but audiogon is the one i like the most and its the only site i would do large purchases on for used or demo products. 
Different strokes; I like the SH forum for music, records, and music history. (It also has a good visual arts section, with a number of knowledgeable participants on film and tv history and technology). Not as gear-centric as the ’Gon. I don’t see any need to bash any forum; they all serve their audiences differently. (And some of Hoffman’s work is pretty good, sonically, in my estimation). 
PS: I found the thread on SH- Taters, the comments were directed to the new format, which other 'Gon users seem to have carped about here as well. 
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I concur w/ whart. User beware on SH Forums, it has a communist undertone, after all those guys are located in CA.
SH Forums, definitely not the place to discuss audio equipment. Lamp cord is just fine thank you, anyone who thinks different is an absolute idiot.
OK for music discussions, especially if you're into  Beatles minutiae ad nauseum
The Steve Hoffman music forum is the best out there. Especially if like me you want historical information and you're a Beatles fan.

The problem is that we fans seemingly can't agree on anything when it comes to sound quality. To compound things we sometimes get carried away by anticipation and fall for the emperors new clothes syndrome.

Eventually though a kind of consensus does emerge.
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Yes, I will only give props for pretty good musical -based info, bdp24.
Happy Listening!
At least Audiogon isn't AudioKarma!
Who cares what this dude thinks anyway.
Laughing...
I got a kick out of this posting on SH forum. It appears that his home was recently flooded. SH is receiving his due.
Rodman9999 sez ...

  • His(and Kevin Grey's) ears suck!

Please explain your comment. I know Kevin Grey. I've been to his studio several times. I'm familiar with his reissues through Cisco and Impex ...  many of which I have both the originals and the reissues Kevin worked on. 

As audiophile reissues go, I'd say Kevin's are among the best, especially when considering natural sound and lack of excessive digital reverb. 
 
Not trying to start an argument with you Rodman, just curious as to how you reached your conclusion. 

Thanks ...

Frank

@oregonpapa - Not certain why I looked at this thread again, but: I own a number of older(circa early Eighties) audiophile(ie: Nautilus/MFSL/Crystal Clear/Sheffield/etc) vinyls. One example, my Nautilus, ’Rumours’, got a lot of play, demoing the speakers at my shoppe. It was always well cared for, but- I thought I’d try a new/remastered pressing. I bought the Hoffman/Grey, 45 RPM version. My old pressing presents(to this day) each instrument’s/human’s voice, as a distinct entity on the sound stage with clarity and lifelike dimension(an excellent mix). ie: One of my customers(a young, professional studio drummer), while auditioning a pair of my speakers, exclaimed, "WOW! I can count the rivets, on the Ride!"(during, ’Dreams’), which was one of my more gratifying moments, as a speaker builder. Suffice it to say, their’s(outside of Stevie’s voice) was a muffled, indistinct, blob of sound, in comparison. Regarding the Jimmy Smith/Midnight Special album: Kenny Burrell’s Sax put me in the venue(guitar and drums- nice), while Smith’s B3 sounded like the crew forgot to remove a few shipping blankets, from over the Leslie. There was a third album, but- it’s been close to a decade and memory fails. The nicest thing I can remember now, is how easy it was to sell all three, after advertising them as, "VPI cleaned/LAST treated/played once to archive". I considered adding the term, "archive" as accurate, since I’d firmly committed the experiences to memory. The buyer was very happy. I’ve been scrupulously avoiding anything with which they’ve been involved, and not had a bad reaction to any purchased recording, since. Sorry, if I seemed loquacious and(of course) YMMV(seems it has). Happy listening!
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There are more whiners and cry babies here than on most other audio forums.
@rodman9999 - I can see your problem with Kevin Grey's mastering. Kenny Burrell doesn't play sax, so if Kenny's guitar sounded like one then that's pretty bad mastering work.
Every day I spend as much time as I can contributing to the decay of Audiogon. Done this for years. It is really nice to finally be acknowledged. 

😀
Best info on good recordings is on SH. Some threads get so deep they leave no question unturned. I’ve made some very good purchases based on the info there. (and I’m not a big Beatles fan, the recent remasters work for me).
@dhawks3001- Yeah, Oldtimer’s Disease strikes again! Much as I’ve always loved Kenny Burrell’s licks, which were on my mind, when I said, "guitar and drums, nice", I conflated his name/axe with Stanley Turrentine and his Tenor Sax. Nice catch and thanks for the correction! Big, "DUH", here.
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I discovered the SH forum through a thread BASHING it here.  Since I've found it I find myself hanging out more there than here!  Pretty much has the same ups and downs as most forums, and its a little too rigidly policed but its alright!
I know of a guy who got kicked off the Hoffman site for daring to call Steve, Hoff. I jest you not!
Re Beatles remasters. Sorry. I did the heavy lift. The old originals are better. 
Audiogon has changed so much, still fun to read post , just don’t it too seriously, I like Steve Hoffman forum as well...
sfseay99 posts05-11-2018 9:52amThere are more whiners and cry babies here than on most other audio forums

Too many "snake oiler's" here compared to other forums. That turn off "potential" younger generation audiophiles.
When they see things like $200 for a fuse, or $400 for half a dozen little 1 dime size stick on "room conditioners" or $2k for an IEC power cord.

Cheers George
I have two complaints about the Audiogon forums, or more accurately about the people who post here.  

First, there are too many people who post emphatic, seemingly authoritative comments who do not have actual first-hand experience to back up their opinions.  Too often comments really boil down to “I have the XYZ amp and I really like it, therefore it is the best.”  

Second, there are too many people who offer pseudo-technical explanations for what they hear when they don’t have the engineering knowledge necessary to draw those conclusions.  Some examples: all attempts to explain why cables sound different from each other; all attempts to explain why one type of mounting platform or footer sounds different from another type; and comments that attribute a component’s sound to one or more measurements which usually is just parroting the manufacturer’s claims.  

The Steve Hoffman equipment forum is hardly perfect but it has more diverse opinions and there is a higher percentage of posters with in-depth experience than at Audiogon.  For example there are some threads at SH forum on Audio Note gear that are simply the best resource I know of regarding AN equipment.
Steve Hoffman forums are excellent except for Steve Hoffman. He makes stuff up to try to impress folks. Perhaps a sales tool for him. It would be so much better if he just didn’t comment. Not a fan of his mastering work either - good but not great.
+1 Shadorne.  I haven’t liked any of SH’s reissue masterings.  I don’t know why he seems to have the reputation he does.  Plus his “reviews” of equipment on his forum seem directly related to which mfrs have given him long-term loans.

Other than Hoffman himself, the equipment forum is pretty decent in my opinion.  It’s at least worth a look every couple days.
@taters
This is important to you and needed to be posted here because...?

I mean really, who actually cares.
I’m fairly new to Audiogon. There is much to like here but I find the downsides compared to other hi-fi forums are two fold:

1. The propensity for click-bait thread titles, which would go away if people ignored them, but unfortunately the click-baiters know their game too well. Recent examples: “High end is dead?”, “Isolation stands: snakeoil?”, “What matters and what is nonsense”, “beware the audio guru”, “Integrateds:why do they all SUCK?”, “Cartridges: complete scam?”, ”ClassD=Trash?”.

Come on Audiogoners,  just ignore these click-baiters, they don’t deserve a response!

2. The other downside is the propensity of certain people to bicker and bitch to each other. Yes this happens on reddit all the time, but other hifi forums keep things civil. There is no need to insult other people, even if they ARE wrong in their belief that mains power cables don’t make a difference ;)

It’s a shame the forum does not allow photos, but other than that it is clean, intuitive, and easy to use.

And the email daily updates are great, no one else does that.

Bdp24-get a life. We don’t need idiotic posts like this on an audio forum.
same for the rja post- just because he can’t hear the difference or doesn’t have decent equipment to hear differences between cables, everybody is an idiot that can. 
Big turn offs for allowing posts like this!
This now somewhat dated thread, as I noted in my original post above, is misleading; the post on the SH Forum was complaining about the then "new" format of Audiogon. Remember- we had a few complaints ourselves about the changes on these forums.
There's usually little purpose in dumping on other forums. I participate here, and a on a few others, including SH. Strengths- good info on particular rock pressings from back in the day; some very knowledgeable people on non-audiophile pressings. Lot of younger members there too. Granted, they aren't using big league equipment, but there is very little snark b/c the board is heavily moderated. And, as here, people are willing to help troubleshoot a problem.
Steve is actually a nice guy if you get to talk to him one on one. As to people's taste in different masterings, that's part of the fun.  Steve's version of Aqualung is one of the better masterings of that record in my estimation; his cut of Way Out West (with Kevin Gray) at 45 rpm is impressive too. 
The fact that you are making the comparisons between different pressings/masterings says you know enough to make your own decisions. 
Enjoy the holiday weekend if you have it. Lot's of time for listening!
rbstehno, Maybe I'm ignorant but I don't understand your post. The statement I made about lamp cord was strictly facetious and meant only to illustrate the prevailing attitude on the Hoffman forums toward audio cables.
"There are more whiners and cry babies here than on most other audio forums".

Sad but true. Not so long ago Audiogon used to be the greatest Hi-Fi forum, especially on High-End analog, turntables TAs and cartridges.Many great reviewers and long-time contributors, true experienced audiophiles and music lovers on (analog) audio whose little stories were so fun and informative to read and learn.

Now we have legions of arrogant novices, snake oilers and all kinds of besser wissers trying to be so darn smart here. It´s just the curse of that damn faceless monster, Marxian liberalism that allows everybody do anything he desires. Without any consequences, responsibility to others, not to mention shame. Ah, that freedom and right to be anonymous. It´s all BS. Marx is the biggest scam artist of all time.
This thread is just another symptom of that cancer that eventually will destroy great forums, and whole civilization in the end. Unless we want to stop it.
Dear moderators, do you really want to allow our own Audiogon suck ?No. It´s time to act.

Who is Steve Hoffman?
^^ A rather lousy brain fart but explains that poster and it all... Ha-ha !!
I didn't know that Marx was behind Audiogon. Or the "faceless monster, Marxian liberalism". Wow!
Taters strikes deep into the psyche of the audiophile. Deep, deep into the psyche! 😳
Steve Hoffman Forums is run in a Communist Way.If You cross a Moderator or Veteran Member, You will be "Banned" with No Reason.Certainly not a Democracy, Hence Communism!
@harold-not-the-barrel ,

"Now we have legions of arrogant novices, snake oilers and all kinds of besser wissers trying to be so darn smart here."

"This thread is just another symptom of that cancer that eventually will destroy great forums, and whole civilization in the end. Unless we want to stop it."


Good points for sure, but aren’t you forgetting reader responsibility? One of the main points of any forum is to read various points of view and then to draw your own conclusions.

Since all we have to go on are words it should be second nature for us to always ask basic questions eg

What are the poster’s intentions?

What are they trying to sell us?

Are they factually correct or trying to ’blind us by science’ or careful omission?

Is the argument balanced, or are we only hearing one side?

Who are they trying to help?


In fact doesn’t all the information we encounter from third parties (where trust is not automatically given) need to be treated in this manner?

As for civilisation being destroyed by this ’cancer’, I am reminded of that Gandhi quote when asked what he thought about Western civilisation,

“I think it would be a good idea."

In other words, we’re not quite there yet, not in the political realm and not yet even here on Audiogon!




Action, reaction! When someone goes a-trollin’ the fish go a-bitin’. 🐡

I like gravy on my taters! Mmmmmm... 🍟
peterm13
Well reported.  Happy Listening!
@peterm 13, you might not agree with the way it's run but surely you wouldn't disagree with the fact it's an absolute goldmine of information, would you?


Audio is largely a matter of taste.

(I believe that mass suggestibility figures in, too, driving things like expensive cables, fads in DAC design, and schemes like HDCD and MQA, but that’s just my opinion.)

Statements that "this sucks" or "that sucks" belong on a third-grade playground, if they belong anywhere.

Statements like "tubes are better than solid state" or the reverse; or "DAC chip X stomps chip Y" reach only the level of the fourth grade.

There are many ways to get great sound. I’ve heard expensive (and cheap) systems that have been distressing, and cheap (and expensive) systems that sound great.

This is a shared hobby . . . we should start by showing respect for one another and for the subjective nature of the purported objective: enjoyment of music.