Congrats tda after your long wait!
Enjoy! |
Hi kops
Thanks for the pointers
Im running them in with all kinds of music but today i put on the Gladiator movie soundtrack wich have some really really deep sound effects.
I run them with linn klimax 500 solos wich are the deep bass slam and dynamic headroom champions and the bass preformas im getting blows my mind its the deepest , most dynamic bass i have ever heard.
Infact the klimax/cremona paring is producing the sweetest tunes thise ears have ever heard.
I wonder what happens in the next 8 days and when i get the klimax DS.
Im getting the yter interconnects, but i use kimber 8tc jubileum version wich have been factory terminated with the special Neutrik Speakon 4 connectors i need for my klimaxes, and it dos every thing i want from a speaker cable and its musical sound fits my system perfectly.
But the yter ic is better then all of kimber interconnects and bested many others including kubala sosna.
regards |
original Cremona needs at least 100hrs and getting better after 300hrs. You should play a low frequency loop to burn-in the bass woofers (and the noise will not disturb anyone when you're left).
Congrats for your speakers. Try Yter lspk. |
Today i receive my cremona ladies and im so happy.
Besides the fact that the are absolutly beatuful, the sound amazing right out of the box.
This puzzels me becaue the are brand new out of the box serial with nr 3800 somting .
Its one of the last pairs ever produces, and i was lucky the disbutiator in germany still had one pair left.
The dont sound bright , dull , slow , dark , or boomy the just sound emotinal and so damm musical.
Nothing like the new one.
Enyway have much run in time do the need before the are fully runned in ?
In the manuel its only stated that the will sound better and better with time just like a acoustic instrument.
But nothing specicaly.
eny pointer would be nice.
regards |
Hi analog kid
Try reading the hificlub review he pretty much says the exact same as i do.
And the elipsa sounds better then the cremona m
http://www.hificlube.net/common/ver_artigo.asp?id_artigo=1801&seccao=Audiofilia%20Aguda&subseccao=Audiofilia%20Aguda |
Thanks tda! Sonus Faber has apparently followed B&W and JmLab/Focal in moving from a warmer sound to a more precise sound.
The Elipsa reviews I've seen haven't mentioned the concerns you have, nor has a review of the Auditor M in HiFi+. The only time I can remember when magazine reviews were less enthusiastic for a newer version of a speaker was the Audio Physic Virgo III - which is more precise than the Virgo II and many people think it lost the magic.
Let us know when you have the org Cremona in your home!
Analogkid |
Hi analog kid
Absolutly i like the auditor very much, it sounds identical to the cremona only the big cremona has the amazing dynamics.
But the both share the same nonefatigueing top and almost wet sounding midrange.
Yes I would say the auditor has the magic but the big cremona are more emotional.
In my search for speakers i heard 4 different speakers from audio physics.
Also there top of the line chronos.
I liked them but wassent blowaway, the smaler ones where the best, dont know why but the side fireing bass just dont sound right to my ears.
The are good speakers better then many but in the end the sounded just to plain.
Thnaks |
Tda, in your opinion does the original Cremona auditor also have the "magic"? The auditor also has a new M version.
BTW, I'm wondering do you like Audio Physics? The new version of the Virgos (the "Virgo V") might also be something to consider - I haven't heard it yet but I like the older Virgos and their new tweeter and midrange drivers look interesting.
Thanks
Analogkid |
Hi pinkus
I really wanted to like the cremona M , and since its suppose to be easyer to install in smaller rooms i spend alot of time and efforts to test it to see if i could get them to sound in the same ballpark as the old.
But the did not, bass is good but rest has no similaritys to the orginal one, infact it was steril transperant and bright.
My dealer is very alternativ and his price for the new was the same as the orginal one so my option is not money dependent.
The org one is clearly suppirior to my ears, and ALOT more musical and much more coherd sounding.
And it has that magic with voices.
Some may say hey it has to be better since its a newer design.
But remember this the new one was designed by a completly new team , infact i may be that teams first try out , and franco serblin had nothing to do with it.
Secondly it was created over a pretty short time maybe 5 month at best.
Franco gave the old one 3 years.
Secondly the orgnial one used the best drivers, and uses top kvality mundorf suprem crossover components wich the new one dos not from what i have been told.
The new one is clearly a make money speaker,
the org one was franco doing what he dos best making emotional sounding speakers using whatever was best at that time. and then left other to decide have much it shall cost.
If you look at the grand piano and compare it to the cremona it seems that the price increasse it purly component cost.
Thst as freaking miracle in audio.
If you like the sound of your cremonas keep them.
Take it from me the price of the M was the same for the orginal one through my dealer and i fullhardly chose the org one.
regards |
Tda,
now don't hold back...tell us how you really feel about the M's :) Are you saying, I should keep my "old" Cremona's .... I can assure you that the professional reviews are all going to say that the new M's are better than the old. |
Not my meaning to kick the dead horse here , but i whent back not to listen to the Cremona M again but buying some other stuff.
But listend to them again, and the sounded the same, and NOT to my likeing.
We tryed 3 different amps and frontends, some amps where monoamps costing 30.000 other where tube amps and different sources from mcintosh to primare to krell , and it all sounded pretty much the same.
I was completyly baffeld by this becaue the org cremona was so sensitiv to what the where driven with.
This telles me that you can not tweak the new cremona m to sound better
In my book the better the speaker the more different it will sound with what gear you drive it with.
Eny way its my personal findings others may disagree but take my advice do listend to both before buying |
My advice is spend all the time it takes to make sure that you make the absolut right decision , dont listen to enybody trust your own ears.
And take reviews with a kilo of salt, dynamic speaker drivers dont improve enormusly as years go by , the magic still lies in the crossover layout and crossover component kvality and have you combine it with the drivers.
The org cremona uses proberly the best drivers in the world namly the top of the line sacn speak revalator units, only moddified, the crossover is mundorf supreme wich is also proberly the the best crossover components in the world.
Just becaue the new one uses different units and cheaper crossover parts dossnet make it better only alot of people will by it because its NEW.
The org cremona is to cheap for what it dos, franco never was a sells man he toke the best there was at a given time and perfected it, as stated before i prefere the cremona over the amati homage.
And basicly the org cremona is also technicaly a better speak , do to the use of the better revelator drivers.
The tweeter in the cremona sounds better then the r2900 version wich is in the stradivari , but its problem is its cheaper there for it must be worse.
But rmember this unit was higly moddified and has littel to do with the stock vifa xt25.
I like it better becaue its much more silky and smooth, and less detaljd/analytical.
Luckily for us sonus faber placed the cremona under the homage series and gave it a cheaper look and finish and there for the price was set low. |
Tda2200, I think you should consider yourself lucky; you know what you like & you'll save $$$ to boot. Also, newer does not always mean better when individual preferences are factored in. Enjoy! |
Hi barnimir
Your are absolutly right its my owen oppinion some may disagree with me and like it.
But my oppinion and personal findings are the same none the less.
This may come to you as a chock but i dont like the sound of the anniversary that much , mostly because of its tweeter , i prefere the homage for overall musicality and warmness .
And i prefere the orginal cremona over the amati homage for my linn klimax gear.
Im happly setteling on the cremona because i love there sound ,and see what franco serblin will come out in a couple of years maybe.
regards |
Tda2200,
It is your VERY SUBJECTIVE opinion.
To my ears new Cremona M is a better speaker then old version. New one sounds IMHO to some degree like Amati Anniversario and that is a nice thing.
Even old Cremona sound lean if you compare it to Stradivari Homage for example.
You like old schools SF sound? Then either Stradivari or Guarneri Memento could be for you since both to my ears sound as close as possible to old school SF sound... |
Just got home from the second demo the have now had around 350 hours of musical beating at loude volume.
We tried both with the ear findly primear gear as well as the 50.000 usd marantz setup.
I was even more disapointed then the first time.
This has nothing to do with a musical instrument, or a emotional sound. .
In other words its the opposit of the org cremona.
Its brittel , lean and the mid/top keeps robing my atension with anoying hard sounds.
Honestly after 15 minuts i felt like turining it of and go home.
The diddnet sound horribly but nowhere nere the old cremona .
Im glad i gave it another chance because now i know i have made a very wise move not buying it.
That the magic is franco serblins work and not the brand sonus faber.
I was told that franco serblin did infact more or less design the elipsa, but left soon after , and the new M versions is designed by a completly new team, and it was mighty fast the made the new line.
Im buying a use pair from germany and the will arrive next thursday. |
Hi jamnesta
Your are absolutly right.
Tomorrow i have book another demo session and the speakers will now have around 300 hours of run in in them.
If the sound more like i want them to il buy im on the spot.
If not i have aready found a 4 month old used pair of the org one in graphite.
Win Win situation..
Il report back tomorrow.
regards |
Tda2200,
All is not lost, this could work in your favor. If the new M's don't float your boat why not pick up a pair of the originals as their unloaded in a mad scramble by the owners to stay current. |
Hi henryhk
Sadly i havent heard it yet. |
Looks like franco serblin is on the move again making speakers.
Thank god
http://www.francoserblin.it/inglese.html |
How do the Guaneri Homage compare? |
Hi pinkus sorry
Diddent see it was ment sacastic
peace. |
Pinkus i did not here the new ones with linn gear.
As stated 2 times it was marantz gear.
The org cremonas with linn gear do not sound lean at all heard the combi so many times .
the problem lies somwhere else in your system .
My linn gear do not sound bright or lean at all remember i have the solos.
The sound a littel maybe a tiny bit lean with my slimdevices transporter but with my new unidisk the sound just right.
The are the most transperant amps i have ever been exposed to all the frontend i have tried completly changed the tonal balance.
And this is on my tempoary system audio speakers wich are as neutral as speakers comes.
The new ones are indeed the same size but the new grill looks better and the finish also seem better. |
Tda,
believe me it is the Linns :) Get some Nagras and see how the new ones sound :)
Ok, more seriously, why do you say the new Cremona's look better than the old ones. I was under the impression that they both have the same cabinets, and only the footers have been changed. |
Just found this on hificlub and thourgt it is very interresting and even more so when he had to use the most smooth tubes amps out there to get somkind of balanced sound,
here is one of the reviewers comments.
There remained a few quibbles to solve though, of which the most annoying was a tendency to sound bright, almost on the verge of impertinence, I tentatively attributed to the restlessness of youth.
he Elipsas are more revealing, expressive, explicit, clear, and bold in the way they present music and ambience clues. Maybe too much so if one takes into account the buoyant performance of the ring radiator tweeter |
I had very high hops for this one
The dealers sonus faber man warned me greatly not to come by and listen before a weeks time but just couldent help myself and he was not there so i talked another sales person into letting me here them and see them (or should i say drowl).
The look absolutly berlissimo and the where placed right beside the amati anniversario in graphite.
I remember when i actuned the org cremona , i thourgt it looked kinda ikea silly compared to the amati anni .
But the new one really has got the superstar looks.
Actually the irony of it all is that i bourgt my current setup composing of linn klimax gear because of the sound it produced when put through the org cremona.
That experince left me very moved and it all just clicked for me i beleive i experinced a musical epifany.
I thourgt it was only caused by the cremonas but living with the klimax gear for some time now i know it was the two combined and today i feel like never parden with my solos.
Now sonus faber destroyd my littel plan by putting out a new cremona m.
And the promises of a better preformans and most importantly better preformas in smaller rooms like mine that is 17 sq meters i just have to give them a good listen again before deciding.
But overall i was left sad and kinda mad at the new sonus faber team because the took away the very thing that makes franco serblins speakers so special .
I did here a very good musical bass and the had some potential no doubt but the bright tendenci destroyd it for me , and the did not do the singing think wich the org cremona dos with the right gear (the linn klimax gear with linn source. surthely did)
I really hope that a good 300 hours of run in will make them sound more like the sonus faber sound wich most off us love .
thanks |
Tda2200
Most die hard Sonus Faber fans I've talked to admit to a more neutral, less romantic direction taken by the company, but they generally like the results. Anyway, the speakers definitely need some run in time...keep us posted. |
am i the only one that thinks Sonus' flagship the Stradavari is ugly? I much prefer the anniversairy amati as far as appearance. |
tda,
listening to a speaker out of the box is always a horrible experience...run in time is critical as you indicated..maybe more than 300 . |
Sorry for the some what clumsy writing i accindetly posted it before i had edited it.
(and im danish) |
Herd them yestoday
The where almost brand new out of the box with only a few houres of run in
The setup was the new merantz reference fronend and mono blocks costing a fortune.
First of the are absolutly beauitful.
But the sound disapointed me greatly.
Bass was very very good ,ok musical but now impressiv, midband sounded as if it wassent there and was overall very lean, and the twetter had all wrongs scanspeak ringradiator are known for , top bright and sharp ,and throwing razor sharp overtones at you that are like needels in my ears.
It diddent sound like a sonus faber at all not even sligtly.
The room was pretty good the system was op notch and diffently not why the disapointing sound.
Il go back when the have had around 300 hours of run in time, but at this point the really need to have changed alot to make me like them better then the old.
The show potintial to be more hifi then the old but on the sacrifice of the old cremonas musical magic.
lest see in a weeks time.
Franco where are you ? |
Eny one that have heard the cremonas M yet ?
thanks |
Tda2200, no war :) My Cremona's are happy with the Nagra VPA's and MPA's...your are happy with the Klimaxes ! |
And pinkus pleas lets not start the linn sonus faber/Preamp ,source war all over again ; ).
regards |
Hi branimir
Actually no i do not owen them
i have been fooling my self because i was so keend on buying them that i actually proclamid i had them so my indendity was based on me having them
Kind off foolish i see ; ) sorry for the missleading.
I decided to buy klimax solos first because the where the key to the sound i wanted and then waith for a secondhand pair to pop up here in denmark but now its all getting confusing because of the new cremona M
But i have heard the cremona extensivly many times in different setups and different locations
Best sound i heard was with linn chakra amp thats why i bourgt the solos.
Many dealers carrie both linn and sonus faber espicialy here in denmark for good reason.
Pinkus the price should be almost the same only a slight increase . |
What about the price increase...I am sure they are going to raise prices. Any information on that ?
Thanks |
TDA2200,
You own old Cremona's?
Then you know that size of its woofers is 18cm... Yes, same as new Cremona M. New one use aluminium woofers, same material as Amati Anniversario, Stradivari or Elipsa...
New Cremona M is really 4cm higher on new feets. It really is little bit bigger. |
one other thing
On sonus fabers own homepage the old cremonas woffers are 2 *18 cm woffers exactly the same as the new cremona.
But on other sides ithe specs for the old cremona are 15 cm woffers.
Why is that ?
Regarding the sizes to the two cremonas is the new one really larger ?
Looking at the specs and drawing the spece for the new is hight 112cm but that is when you tilt it back.
Was the old cremona measured that way also ?
Also i have studid the two cremona on same size pictures and the new one really dont seem bigger when you look at the drivers vs cabinet size.
Enyone that can help me answer thise questians ?
regards |
Here is a some more news
http://www.audiotechnique.com/chc/309/309.htm
scrool down a littel No thats a cremona M with wires in it
I translated the text here it is
In order to celebrate Italy to have a fever speaker brand Sonus Faber to be located the Hong Kong intermediate belt all father to benefit the street 1 901 room exhibition rooms to be open for business, deep and clear ? uncommon president Cesare Bevilacqua especially flies to Hong Kong from Italy to carry on the ribbon cutting ceremony, Cesare this line of another single layers if must recommend two section for the Hong Kong fan to stem from the brand-new design troop brushwork the speaker product, first section named Elipsa, three group three unit designs, the 260mm bass unit inspires the plate material to select the light quality quantity aluminum/magnesium alloy, the crosswise -like development sandwich sound box surface ? on fine selects the maple tree which elects thin to bark.
Another section is take long-term sale Cremona as a foundation, from inside to the outside passes through comprehensive innovation in the Cremona M, M is a Modify word in simple form, the sound box back line appears the little change, is helpful to strengthen the sound proliferation, uses the metal founding the foot rest shape also to pass through slightly modifies, provides the better center of gravity distribution, in addition divides the sound also to make the appropriate readjustment, four unit qualities maintain invariably.
Cesare
Declared he has spent period of quite long time, has carefully compared the new old Cremona difference, draws the conclusion is the Modify edition low frequency has the good under potential, takes in and puts away the counter-strain sprightly, timbre trim as before outstanding.If your excellency desire plans the promotion replacement medium place speaker, individual suggestion arrives Sonus the Faber exhibition room to listen to these two section newest products first, only then does finally reaches a verdict.
if im reading this right the new cremona is truly a better speaker the the old because the have compared the two extensivly.
And that the new cremona is just as good as the elipsa. |
Pinkus,
New Cremona M is 40Hz-30kHz(anechoic) and old Cremona is rated to 32Hz(in room!).
Also John Atkinson room is pretty bass friendly(nice room gain).
BTW, if you look John Atkinson review of Amati Anniversario you will see that Anniversario do not go any deeper in bass in his room then old Cremona. BUT, in my room(almost 40m2) difference in bass definition, depth and tightness between Anniversario and old Cremona are night and day, belive me!
Elipsa also has better bass to my ears then old Cremona but, it is rated only to 35Hz(anechoic)...
Point is with room gain new Cremona M will go deeper then old one, at least IMHO... |
Hi branimir
Thanks for the usefull explanation
regards |
Branimir, here is a look at the in-room frequency response as published by Stereophile: http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/304sonus/index3.html
As you can see, the bass extends down to 25Hz. Also the port tuning frequency is 30 HZ. I do not think anyone is lying here. I think there is either a misprint the new Cremona M's specs, or it is a different speaker with less extended bass. |
My mistake. I heard the Elipsa. |
Jeff jarvis then spill the beans how did the sound ??
Are you sure the where the new version and where did you hear them besides that it was in bangkok ?
You hearing them a month ago contradicts strongly with what every dealer importer and so on i have said. |
"Hi branimir
Just read the specs on the new cremona M it seems that it only goes down to around 40 hz can this really be true ?
because the old whent down to 32 hz i read somewhere that the new m should be more capeble in the bass how can this be when it dossent go as low ?"
Answer is simple as possible-SF was lying to us before! Elipsa is rated 35Hz and I can tell you it is going far deeper in bass then original Cremona... Franco Serblin was a true fan of overoptimistic frequency range data... Few examples my Amati Anniversario's are rated till 24hz but, in room(with room gain!) they go to 25Hz(-3db) and 20Hz is at -10db, Guarneri Memento is rated till 39Hz...
Do not worrie. new Cremona M goes deeper then old one. Problem is that SF was lying before(or publishing overoptimistic data...).
Personally, I am glad that new designer Paolo Tezzon is telling us only true... Good sign and good sound as well if I judge his work on Elipsa. |
Probably not the true production pair as was stated earlier.
But, anyway, how did you like it??
:)
Joey |
Heard a pair in Bangkok a month ago.
|
Hi branimir
Just read the specs on the new cremona M it seems that it only goes down to around 40 hz can this really be true ?
because the old whent down to 32 hz i read somewhere that the new m should be more capeble in the bass how can this be when it dossent go as low ? |
Either way... NO ONE has heard the actual production yet. I'm going to sit here with my Auditors and wait for the Auditor M.
IF the Cremona M truly madly and deeply blows me away... I just might replace my Martin Logan Summits for my reference setup. |
Hmm... I am not so sure about that... My distributor will have them in July. First production run is Maple finish only. Graphite will follow in September... It is also about 800Euros more expensive on my market then previous version. |
