New Fuse Thread . . .


So the talk about the sonic effects of fuses got way out of hand, and I would like to know some details from those who have actually tried the boutique audio fuses. So if you have, please let us know any of the following:

1. What value (ampere rating) were you using, and was it fast or slow-blow (time delay)? Time-delay fuses usually have a letter 'T' in their rating, like "T2.5A" is a 2.5 ampere, slow-blow fuse.

2. Does anybody have a reasonably decent ohmmeter, and could you measure the difference in resistance between the boutique fuse and the standard one? If you measure, be sure to subtract the resistance of your test leads. Of course, if somebody has an impedance analyzer, I'd love to see that data . . .

3. What position is this used in? That is, on the AC line, or after the transformer, after the rectifier, etc.?

4. Has anybody had occasional fuse-blowing with the stock fuse, and replaced it with a boutique fuse, and had the boutique fuse blow? Did the failure patterns seem similar to both types?

5. Has anybody made any performance measurements on their equipment with various types of fuses?

So I'm hypothesizing about some ways in which fuses could affect circuit performance, and there are two things I can think of. First, if silver wire is used, then since silver has a lower melting point than copper, the fuse resistance *could* possibly be lower for a given rating. Also, many slow-blow fuses seem to have a resistive element wound around a central core, so it's possible that these could be inductive as well. So what could that mean in a circuit?

First, for a slow-blow line-fuse application, where there is an AC input filter, adding/changing resistance/reactance in the AC line could affect the Q of the input filter, and if this unit was RF suceptible or had a switch-mode power supply, the fuse could therefore affect RF emisions or suceptibility.

Second, many power amplifiers have no snubber capacitors on their rectifiers, and also use fuses for the power-transformer secondary. It's possible here that changing the reactive/resistive characteristics of the fuse could slightly change the switching speed of the rectifier diodes, and affect the diodes' RF emissions.

Third, some power amplifiers use fuses on the DC rails, after the filter capacitors. In this case, it's easy to see how fuse resistance could influence the amplifier performance.

Fourth, if a fuse was placed between a low-voltage linear regulator (like the ubiquitous 78XX or LM317) and its local input filter capacitor, the characteristics of the fuse could affect the regulator's stability, and cause it to oscillate.

And finally, there's the UL rating issue . . . it's important to have confidence that a fuse will blow when its supposed to, and without any certifications, who's to say? At $40 a pop [sic], testing their tolerance and production consistency is a very expensive proposition indeed.

Now I'm not claiming that fuses make a difference, or don't make a difference, I honestly haven't tried, and I'm too cheap to conduct an exhaustive study into the matter. But if anybody has some good data (even if incomplete) on their experiments, please share it.
kirkus

Showing 7 responses by albertporter

Warnerwh

I'm positive moving your head 1" will create more of a difference than changing fuses. Our power amps have had fuses in them for decades. Even the 10k power amps don't use anything but 85 cent fuses. I'm betting these engineers know what they're doing.

First of all, I disagree with you. Moving your head 1" in front of my system does absolutely nothing. However, the Isoclean fuses I installed in my Aesthetix were a nice upgrade.

If engineers are so "all knowing," why don't they employ point to point wiring, black gate caps, Teflon caps in the signal path, OFC copper RCA and XLR jacks, OFC speaker lugs, high quality AC cords, NOS tubes and so on?

The answer is simple, they build the product to a price point and that's it.

Audiophiles are not afraid to experiment with tweaks, some of which are a pretty good upgrade considering the effort and money involved.

(And note, the examples of what an engineer COULD do is just a run through of possibilities, depending on the product).
I don't disagree with your comments about room treatment, I invested an additional $30K for design, materials and work in my listening space when reconstruction was done a few years ago.

Even before that investment, the Isoclean fuses were enough of a change that I could have heard the improvement.

I think all this discussion is about levels of quality. I don't doubt there are many systems that would NOT benefit from a fuse swap. Most of the systems owned by guys in my audio group are the exception, and my Isoclean fuses were a nice upgrade for the $25.00 each I paid.

I have a large order of more than 20 Hi-Fi Tuning fuses sitting on my desk but waiting for my new crossover and cable to settle in before adding another variable.

As for your comment about engineers adding fuses on amps that are $5K and up, I disagree. I had a big argument with the owner of Boulder who builds some of the most expensive amps, preamps and phono stages in the world.

He doesn't even think it matters what wall plug your in, the condition of the socket or what kind of AC cord is used. A perfect example of engineer following paper rather than testing to see if there is anything to learn.

I think I'm wasting my time here. Those that believe there's a possibility of improvement with a fuse or power cord will try it. Those that are stubborn will continue to know they are "right" and never learn.

Their loss, not mine. I don't worry about such stuff, I try it and learn. If it works I support it and if it does not, I usually don't comment about it.

The reason I don't condemn things that don't work for me?

Even with my system as evolved as it is, some things will NOT work in my situation that may prove a blessing to another Audiogon member.
I installed Hi Fi Tuning fuses in my VTL amps and the change was so positive, two of the guys in my group ordered for their system the next day.

Strangely enough, putting Hi Fi tuning fuses in the turntable power supply was nearly half of what I got in the VTL power amps. Cumulative effect i would say.

Next is my Aesthetix Io and Callisto. After they return from getting their Eclipse upgrade, I'll give the Hi Fi Tuning fuses a chance there as well.

Looks like they are going to wind up in everything I own. I've already bought 40 and only 8 remaining. I did this long term, starting with a single piece of equipment and worked up.

That's why this is my first comment since my September post.
Ever notice that when many obtain an EE Degree, it seems to affect their aural accuity?

Understood.

I've read threads where the poster argues that something cannot work, even when items were available to judge by ear.

In photography I was taught to experiment, failure only means you begin again. For the same reason, I don't view failed audio tests as an embarrassment, but rather a learning experience.

I have a group of about twenty listeners, a few that show up every week and some that come only once a month or so. It's a very mixed group, ages from 22 to 65 years of age and a very wide array of equipment from Maggies to Vandersteen and Kharma to Sound-Lab.

What's great is to make a change from the previous week, announce at dinner that there's a change and visitors are invited to comment on strengths or weakness from previous sessions.

This way, regardless of my own feelings I gather comments from other ears and if a change is 100% approved by everyone, you can be pretty darn sure that it's a winner.

I have learned so much with my friends, a comfort in tossing around ideas in a NON hostile way (no ego's allowed!) and everyone free to say what's on their mind.

Frankly it's surprising how often a good change is voted 100% and how often a failure is tossed aside.
One's an Audiogon member but he's incredibly busy and does not post much. He's user name is Logenn. He has a wonderful system but has not posted it in Virtual Systems yet.

The other guy that responded immediately is not a member here. He has a VERY expensive system but is a very private person. I'm fortunate to have both as members of my group.
Albertporter,

Curious what affect changing fuses in your source component(s) had on sound quality? I have heard that the effect of silver fuses was greatest in the amplifier.

Actually, the effect was very similar everywhere I installed Hi Fi Tuning. Short answer, in order of biggest effect.

Cleaner with more transparency and detail (but NOT hard).
Better dynamics
Lower noise

I know that seems impossible, considering it's just a fuse. It probably would not be such a big deal had I not pushed everything else in the system before the fuses.
This circular discussion is very entertaining.

Well Tvad, if fuses were not circular, they would not fit in the holder.