Hi all,
Just started a new thread on the 01s. For anyone interested:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1434224774&read&3&zzlEelii08
As for Tony, I have always run all Esoteric on balanced. That is broadly the recommended way although I have nervier run any esoteric of the several models i owned on single ended so can't really say much about differences, |
Having trialed a UX3 and owned the DV-50S, UX-1, UX-1 Ltd, P-03U/D03 and as of late, the P-02/D-02 front-ends and C-03 preamp followed by the C-02, in every generation, I've found that balanced outputs work best in all cases sonically. Single-ended sounds very good, but this gear is meant to be played from its balanced outputs (IMHO). Same is true for DAC inputs (again IMHO), dual-AES (dual balanced) inputs on the DAC from an Esoteric Transport capable of same is definitely the way to go.... |
Hi Tony, With the D-02 I used the balanced outputs, exclusively. Now I have the D1's with the Ypsilon preamp, which is only single ended, so I have used the single ended outputs. I believe the D-02 is much better output through the balanced outputs. I had the C-02 preamp for a short while and very much perferred the balanced output . |
For those who are running the D-02 or the new D1, are you running the single ended or the balanced outputs? |
Thank you Eelii08, great to hear from you! When you post the new thread can you put a link here so that we know how to find it? Audiogon search sometimes does not find things even on keywords correctly..... |
I have mines already in the system also. Still very early days and have not been able to listen much to them but you ca tell very fast they are very special. Quite something. 02s are great; fantastic actually and I can't imagine anyone not being happy with them for many many years. But as good as they are, the 01s are just something else. I don't think there is a digital out there like these.
Will listen and give more feedback with more time on them, but frankly you don't need that much time on them to be able to hear what these things are about...
Will probably start a new post on the 01s as I don't want to convert this one in a 01. Assume people who reads this want info on the 02s above all. I have several years experience on them so will keep it up. Again, don't let my words get anyone down on th e02s. They are fantastic and given me many many hours of joy and could still have lived with them for many years, specially with th clock and right cables. |
Please do....would love to know what you think about the 1s at a detailed level. The 2s are still kicking ass here; they continue to amaze in what they are capable of!!! Need to do some listening together soon! |
Well, I must say, I liked the styling of the D-02/P-02 better than the P1/D1 are surely growing on me. And I bought them more for listening than I did to look at....but looks are important! I am very impressed with Esoteric's voicing through these machines. The playback of redbook, which I have always thought was of secondary engineering in all the other Esoterics I've owned, is outstanding in my listening room. I have plenty of SACDs, which half are not even as good as the redbook version. But I am loading up old CDs and listening to new music. This is a more complete player than the D-02/P-02, which I still believe is one of the best players out there, especially for more complex music, but the P1/D1 right out of the box, sounds terrific. They have really blossomed into one smile after another. I believe I'm in for a real treat.
Time to start some serious listening and I will try to make some comparisons between the old and the new. |
Hi Guys, The P1/D1 are in place in the rack and playing a CD in a repeat loop. I have listened to couple of songs, but no real critical listening yet. You know the kind of listening when your 3 1/2 year old son is helping you, buy checking out how the new $80k source components sit in the rack and how they would look better if he can move them around!
First thing I noticed right out of the box is how much more centered they feel. It appears Esoteric wanted the center of gravity closer to the center. Also, the components look much better and appear a bit bigger in person as appossed to the website. The transport is silky smooth, and music comes from an eerie quietness, even more than the D-02/P-02. As always though, all my Esoteric purchases seem flat in the first few days of listening, so I'm trying to just spend a minimum of time listening until I get at least 100 hours on them. I will say, the D-02/P-02 had an edge to the music for awhile, then it all settled in. With the P1/D1, it is a very smooth presentation, very natural right out of the box.
So I will get the breakin disc in tomorrow morning and give it a couple of hours, and try to sit back and really get some listening in. I have the rack fully dampened and the components are all weighted down with dampers, so I will fool around with all that and hear if the speakers may need a nudge here or there, and keep you who are interested in the loop.
|
Haven't heard from Tom here in a few days guys...suspect he's got the P1 and D1s hooked up and is still in a state of shock and awe :-) !!!
(Having a hard time resisting a Peter Schilling (or Bowie, take your pick) "Hello Major Tom...." musical ref here !!! |
Great Tom. Congrats once more. Keep us posted. You are my only reliable source of info on these!
Also congrats Zephyr on your C02. It has to be great. Never had an esoteric preamp, but had the esoteric phono and it was great. I am sure it is fantastic.
My wife thinks i lost it long ago... So she just lets me do whatever as long as i keep it in the listening room... Starting to be hard though to comply with that.p too.
The Artesania that you have is fantastic. Dont think it gets any better. It will allow to show the 01s all their potentia. I may upgrade my model to that one sometime in the future. |
Those are high class problems and I'd give it about 5 years before Esoteric comes out with the next-generation of reasons for us all to agonize over upgrade choices :-)!!!! It was great to happen to be on phone with you while you were on your journey to go pick them up; I'm dying to hear what you think after breaking them in....very happy for you and your new set of problems :-) here! Personally very glad to have one of the side effects of your upgrade-itis sitting in my room (your C02 Preamp); don't worry, I'll take very good care of it and remind you just how good it is from time to time!
WAF as a 'reality mechanism'....that's too easy, don't get me started!!!
Happy Listening & Keep in touch! |
Hi guys, Picked my new pieces yesterday, very excited. First question my wife asked me, " where are you going to put all that ". Which is valid a question. Imagine having a three or four piece preamp, a five piece Digital source, a couple mono blocks, a two or three piece phono stage, which I would not have, but imagine. Would need a room just to put it all in. And if it was all Esoteric, it would weigh about about 1000 lbs.
that's the other question to answer, how much does your CD player weigh? "Oh, 250 lbs, but that is with the clock! " What a wonderful problem to have. I am so thrilled to be able to even unbox a system of this potential. My whole Artesania will be nothing more than the Esoterics and my preamp. Now I must find he time to get everything in place and begin the process of playing them into shape. Seems I just got the D02/P02 really sounding good, and now need to begin again. According to Esoteric, this is the last upgrade I will ever need! Now that may be true, or maybe not true, but, according to my wife it will be! Sometimes the Universe has a way of bringing us back to reality, in my case, it is my Wife!
I will keep you all posted!
Tom |
Good luck with that; those are high-class audio-fanatic problems to be certain! Have a great day Eelii08! |
Will share for sure. My expectations are high. We will see and share. Trying to figure out now how to rearrenge the rack and make room for 2 more pieces.... |
Eelii08: Congratuations! Hope you get your new units soon! Would love to hear what both you and Tom think of them once they are up and running! |
That is indded a good question. System has noting to do, nor does room which I treated. I also wnet ahead for the 01s and waiting for them to arrive in the next to weeks or so. at that point I may do it.
And I do agree. the 02s is truly outstanding...! |
Guys...found a great add-on that makes the P-02 and D-02 even more astounding, i.e. lets them shine through with their capabilities even more.....an ESOTERIC C-02 PreAmp!!! It arrived yesterday and pasted me back in my seat in the first 15 minutes. I loved my C-03 pre-amp for many years but this C-02 is an 'in your face' huge upgrade. "WOW" and "Holy %^$&!!!" are the only words that comes to mind!
Eelii08: When are you going to update your virtual system??? |
Congratulations on your impending P1/D1 units! When do you expect to receive them? While HDMI is good, particularly with a good quality cable (like USB), I have a hard time too believing it will best the dual-AES playback route on any Esoteric unit and will be very interested to hear your experiences.....did you sell the P-02/D-03 and C-02 preamp that you were trying to move as yet? Let me know what happened, particularly with the C-02...... |
Well, I have decided to go ahead and move on from the D-02/P-02. I have them listed, and at my asking price, it's hard to imagine that there are many rigs that sound like these. I really had trouble with this decision. When I moved through the Esoterics to the D-02/P-02, I've had little remorse for the rig I was moving from, other than the financial depreciation. Although, all considered, the only real hit I took was the X-01/D2, which I just waited too long to move from. I had this idea that I was going to use it for multi channel listening. Well that didn't work out to well. Truth is, once I got the D-02/P-02 set up for my listening taste, I've had a hard time listening to anything else.
I ordered the P1/D1 this morning, and have high hopes. It's always hard to imagine there is something better when I get the sound right, but, Esoteric has been better each time for me. This will be my fourth upgrade, fifth if I include the clock, which is easily considered an upgrade by me.
It appears there is some cable differences to sort out. The new rig I'm told is best with the HDMI utilizing the E-Link 4. It is very difficult to believe HDMI would be the best interface with anything audio, but that is straight from Esoteric.
We will see, and I will keep you all posted! |
Right on!
The 02s are fantastic. Not easy to imagine how any digital can get better. But you know how these things go. Sure they will be better. But if I was a buyer and I had 25k to spend, can't see where he is going to get a better value than the 02s.
One thing that has me a bit confused is HDMI. I know they can transfer farther more data, but what kind of HDMI cable do they come with? Knowing fist hand how sensible these things are to cables, I wonder if they are putting there just an HDMI made in china cable, or something made for the Esoteric from acrolink or similar.
Coming back to the 02s, I can say last few weeks have been doing some changes and the system has performed far better. Which means there is still a lot of potential to be taken out of them. Troy has been a game changer, but also SIltech as analog for DAC and Mexcell for digital have proven to be a great addition. Of course the digital gear has to be capable of showing this; the 02s have no problem at all with that.
So as you say, if a good deal comes along great. If not I am positive system can be much improved with the 02s on it. |
Hey Guys, I would never abandon this thread. This has been the most truthful banter of audio opinions that I have read. I have learned much not only about the Esoterics, but of the many ancillary likes and dislikes of the D-02/P-02. There has been almost no drift into egos and short cited opinions about right and wrong choices, and of course the long rants of justification of why my rig is the best.
With all the choices at present, finding the chemistry between all these components to produce the harmony we quest, is a lot easier when others share there experiences, and there mistakes. I have found that to be the case here, and have a better music system because of it.
As for the P1/D1, I'm sure there is upgrade potential, but I am pretty happy with the current player I have and maybe just need to take a breath and enjoy what I have. Under the right circumstances I would make the move, but not at the cost of another expensive box in the corner of my music room.Or in this case, two boxes! |
If you do upgrade and don't start a new thread, so be it! We'll still read and respond!!! Otherwise, just drop a note here and we can jump on that thread as well once we know it is there. My picking up the 02 was series of events, some good, and some not so good coming together including a scammer that made life hell for a while but he will get his so to speak; that much is certain! That brings me to another point; Esoteric gear seems to have joined the ranks of Accuphase, Sansui and others that scammers are currently targeting. If you go to hifishark dot com, search on P02 D02 from time to time and zoom in and look at photos on various ads elsewhere, SNs, etc...and compare to what has at times been posted here, you'll see a few eery similarities. Zero/low feedback is also happening for sellers posting high-end gear more and more here and on other forums. Sad really, but as they say,...word to the wise. Some of us were not that lucky overall....
All that stated, the 02 components are beyond my expectations and I am VERY happy with them....
I agree with Eelii that specs in and of themselves mean nothing; there is so much that goes into the overall results, flaunting specs alone is usually a sign that more investigation is necessary.
As far as your buying choices, it does not look like the use Eso market will recover soon. The different between what the dealer is offering you today and what you might command for price in the future, does not appear to be a huge (although it is still a good amount of money) difference. I'd suggest you determine how patient you are willing to be or how long you could go without having to sell the 02 components after upgrading to determine what's right for you....drop me an in-mail and we can talk further by phone. I have other comments/suggestions but a live chat is much more fun, not to mention, appropriate for that.... |
Guys, If I go ahead and trade up for the new Esoterics, do I need to start a new thread. One thing about the D-02/P-02, the people who own them and share on this forum, are far and away the best audio people I've shared with, espiecally on this forum. I have two different offers on the table, one includes moving the D-02/P-02 in trade, the offer calculated out is 20K to the dealer, which is pretty encouraging, considering he will relist them at a profit, usually they try for 20 to 30 percent. The other offer, which I believe is a much better offer, would need me to list the combo myself. Like I said though, I would only need to net 20K to equal the other offer.
Zephyr, I wish I knew you were looking for the D-02/P-02, I would much prefer to sell them to someone who shares here. Low hours, mint condition... What should I do guys? |
Right to the point.
Specs really mean nothing. They are inexpensive. It is all about implementation and execution, quality of components, termination and the likes that rally makes the difference. But you do have to have a balanced system, with all components at a minimum level, that allows you to hear the differences at these levels.
Regarding improvements, the Esoterics benefit big time from a proper grounding device, as I have been able to hear first hand. Anyone interested, do try the Tripoint Troy grounding system with them and you will freak out. |
Hey Guys, This is a real dilemma, of course you need a full system at the level of the D-02/P-02 to hear what fuss is about, and hear lies the problem. With all the new gear out there spouting all these new spec's and claims at a tenth the price, DSD being the main problem, it is easy to put us in a category of over spenders, and trophy system fools! Unless you can justify and afford these components, your probably not going to hear the difference. So, I would like to think that there is many audio people out there that would jump at a chance to own these babies, I will probably be happily listening to them for awhile longer. And as Eliseo has said, I just can't justify having two super high end digital sources !! Or afford it!
I will continue to look for improvements that I can use with any future change or upgrade. As good as the combo is out of the box, Stillpoints, cables, racks, orientation, clock addition, power cords, have all helped to elevate the sound to a pretty damn remarkable playback. |
You and I are in the same situation Tom, and for the same reasons.
The drop in value of the 02s I am sure has a lot to do with the fact that a few 02s owners are upgrading and you see way more of these top digital system for sale than you would otherwise. Before the 01s were out, you could very rarely see a 02 system for sale and now there are a few.
The 02s at half retail or so are a steal. Nothing that I've heard or know of at that price level are even close.
I think is a matter of time. Me like you, if I don't get a decent price I will not sell them and keep the 02s happily. The moment these disappear of the market I think the resale price will go back to normal levels again. I don't mind waiting, since the 02s are really good in any case. |
I have a feeling the new P1/D1 will be top of the heap for a lot more than one year.....the fall off in resale value notwithstanding on Eso and other high-end gear, take a dedicated listen somewhere but don't sell your 02 level gear until you hear in detail what the P1/D1 can do. The rest of your logic on channel and power supply separation, etc...is exactly how I'd think of it too in the event I could ever contemplate the move.... |
Hi Guys, I am debating making a change and upgrading to the P1/D1 combo. I am very satisfied with the D-02/P-02 but always looking to move upward. I feel there are gains to be made with the separation of channels, separate power supplies in the DACs and isolation allowed by separate chassis. As for all the crazy processing bullshit they hype, I doubt any of that stuff adds any significant audible improvement, espiecally with the media being limited. Would be great to compare them to the Vivladi Stack, too!
Although, I am more than a little troubled by the steep drop off in value of these Esoteric and other high end digital components, I am going to list
them. My combo is of course absolutely mint, but I'm not sure I can get half
of retail. If I can't get a decent $, I will keep them. I haven't heard the new Esoterics, and I am hoping that the new P1/D1 is going to be the top of the line for more than a year or two, like the D-02/P-02 was. And, there is such a buzz about DSD, I believe that hurts the D-02, which sucks too. If your a disc spinner like me, it won't matter!
Any thoughts guys? Let me know what you all think!
Tom |
Welcome Joe,
I had the D03 in the past and I do not think it had the option of changing xlr output gain as the D02 has (0db +6db). It did sound very good though but I think it has to be used with a preamp. I think adjuring the C03 will solve any problem. It was a great combo.
BTW I too agree the output gain in the D02 changes the sound. Mentioned earlier in the thread. I would not say one is better than the other. It is just different.
Best
Eli |
I don't know which version of the D-03 I have but since it came out in late 2006/early 2007, I think it is the one with higher voltages on the XLR outputs.
Regardless of anything else, as with all Esoteric gear I've owned, the XLR path sounds the best with absolute certainty. Furthermore, dual AES is definitely the way to go versus RCA, digital link or single XLR.
I had my D-03 set to 0db for its output modification level BUT per Mark Gurvey's advice, set my C-03 preamp to +12db which he told me the guys in Japan had found was an optimal setting. This combination worked very well for me and I've still got the C-03 configured this way with my D-02 with great results... |
On page 16 of the C-03X manual, there is a section on adjusting the output level from -18 to +18dB in 0.5dB increments. |
Hey Dr joe, What are you using for cables? Are you using the balanced outputs? Something doesn't sound right, the C-03x should be a perfect match for that combo! |
Guido is probably right as usual.
I would like to share my experience with my Esoteric K-01 and I believe it applies to the D-03 too. If you go to settings, and toggle through to "Analog Output" you have a choice of 0dB or +6dB. Try the +6dB and see if this improves things. If not, you are better off with a high quality analog preamp. I have found the +6 dB setting changes the sound. Although you get more gain, but strangely enough, as the volume increases, the sound gets congested or constricted, and the soundstage collapses. So, I got a good analog preamp and everything just falls into place very nicely after that.
Cheers! J. |
Might analog output voltage be a user selectable seting? Have you tried to poke around the settings menu? G. |
Apologies for coming in late and changing the topic...but there's a lot of knowledge about Esoteric products in this thread, so I figure this is a good place to askÂ
Does any one have experience of two different configurations of the D-03?
After buying a P-03 in 2013 (new, but manufactured in 2010), and finding my DAC wasn't fully compatible with it, I read some reviews, ascertained the specs and had my dealer order in a D-03.
Thing is, the D-03 manual from the Esoteric website, the one I used to make the purchase decision specifies analogue output level as:
2.2 V @ 1kHz into 10 kOhmsÂRCAs
4.4 V @ 1 kHz into 10 kOhmsÂXLRs
A dealer (Sora Sound) was kind enough to actually measure the D-03 he had on hand and confirmed these specs. HIs unit actually measured higher: 2.42 V and 4.84 V.
But the printed manual that came with my unit has very different specs:
2.1 V @ 1kHz into 10 kOhmsÂRCAs
2.1 V @ 1 kHz into 10 kOhmsÂXLRs
And this may explain my problem.
I greatly enjoy the quality of the C-03x-P-03-D-03 combo, but, with the D-03 in the chain, my system never has enough gain. Beautiful, but anemic. it's
Yet there's no problem with any of the other four DACs I have on hand.
So I'm beginning to think I've got the version of the D-03 in which the balanced outputs have no more voltage output than the single-ended ones.
I've also noticed, when checking the specs of current models on the Esoteric website, that in some models of DACs and players, the XLR analogue outputs double the voltage of the RCA outputs, while in others the two are the same.
So...if anyone knows anything about low and high output versions of the D-03, please let me know.
TIA, Joel. |
Eelii08,
Awesome pic! High end audio porn indeed.
Thanks for the link. |
http://www.audioaficionado.org/esoteric/28997-esoteric-grandioso-p1-d1-3.html
It is in page one I think. Lovely. |
Eelii08, what is the URL to the "other guy" that you mentioned?
G. |
I've seen the other guy pics. Is digital porno what he has there, really. Incredible.
I am willing to do the change if U can sell my 02s. I think the difference will be there. However not in a rush since the 02s sound really great. So if I can sell it at a reasonable price I will go ahead. If not, I will live happily with the 02s for sure. |
Hey Guys, Just a point to look at. Howard is an Esoteric guy .... Look at the associated accessories. Now, he's a good guy and a good reviewer, but, I'm still waiting for a review from someone who is not so Esotreric bias. I would like to here from someone who is switching from EMM, or Rieymo, or a direct comparison to the Vivaldi. Isn't that the direct competition to the Grandioso. There is an audiophile on another forum with both set-ups in his system right now, I'm anxious to hear his opinion! Or better yet, from someone comparing the D-02 stack to the Grandioso stack, how difference are we talking, I find it hard to believe it is a huge difference, based on the technology is so similar, how much better are we talking here. |
Of course, Guido! Lol.
Cheers! J. |
Hi Jon, trust me... I am in fact very much salivating about Grandioso. Yet, in a major case of sour grapes, not there being a single chance in H**l of me ever getting approval from SWMBO to acquire one, I found myself compelled to "Pick bones in to-fo"... If not in the Grandioso, at least in the review *grins!*
Still friends?
G. |
Guido,
You have been a very good friend but sometimes we just need to let go and move on.... :)
Best regards. J. |
Interesting Esoteric Grandioso review.
Unfortunately, I missed any indication of break-in process and related behavior... Hence we cannot tell if the devices were mature or instead they would have benefited from more "grinding of gravel" to
achieve peak performance.
I would have liked to read a more detailed discussion of audible differences among filters and upsampling rates. I venture to guess -- purely extrapolating from my experience with the K-01 single box -- that S-Dly2 and 8X upsampling might have been my prefered setting. |
Yeah...that review keeps me up at night! Oh, to win the lottery!!! |
Here's a review of the Esoteric Grandioso to salivate over and over and over.....
http://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/545-esoteric-grandioso-p1-sacd-cd-transport-grandioso-d1-mono-digital-to-analog-converters-and-g-01-master-clock-generator |
Trust me...they are. The more I throw at them, the more they return. At just under $20K they are one of the, top value/sound for the money in this market as far as I've heard. The new "V" is up the scale from them and sounds amazing. The new WhisperXD is also amazing in its own rite. You have to check them out; I'm sure you'll fall in love with speakers at least once, possibly more!
BTW.....over a week in on burn-in of the combination above anchored on S_DLY2; it's a definite keeper!!! Next stop after this is pure SACD/DSD burn-in and then some USB port fun...what a process, this will definitely be a labor of love to explore this new P/D combo! |
Zephyr, I am strongly leaning to an audition of those speakers, you make them sound good all the way from your house! |
i had tried setting the transport to 8fs while the DAC is at 4fs and I don't think that is possible; the DAC is pushed into 24/3xx as soon as the disc is loaded and is determined to be PCM. I'll double-check my settings here again.....S_DLY2 for D-02 and FIR (DF=ON) on the P-02 as a combo for filter is still sounding amazing here with the Legacy AERIS and the rest of my setup. It's a keeper! |
