Need sub recommendations for vr4 jr's

Hope this is the right place for this thread... no listing for subs elsewhere, especially for stereo use...

I have a pair of VR4 JR's. ..and a Velodyne CT10 sub... I know the sub can be improved upon and that is my aim shortly. I can spend around $1000, new or used doesn't matter to me... I'd prefer runing two, I 'think'... wich means another $1000... later.

My idea is to gain a sub for stereo - music... I'm thinking Velodyne once more but a 12 or 15 SPL R or higher.. and perhaps TWO 12'S... but dont' really know

I'm running the little 10 via the line inputs right from the preamp... with no crossover that way it runs up to 200 hz... and actually I like the extra lift to the music the increased freq range gives... never having a REAL DECENT/GOOD sub though, perhaps I'm listening wrong...

the room is just under 14 wide, and right at 20 long, with two openings into hallways that will eventually be closed offf with the addition of doors of some type ... so not entirely closed offf yet, but wil be.

Please help, and thank you very much for sharing your experience...
Dollar for dollar a pair of Vandersteen 2WQ subs is one of the best investments you could make IMO. Should cost around 1K for a pre-owned pair and you'll get most of that back if you decide to move up.
Hi Jim,
I have used the Von Schweikert VRS-1 and the Martin Logan Grotto which are both in your price range at least used. They have a small footprint with very big sound. Both of these subs are very quick and I found them musical. Hope you get some more good suggestions and find what you are looking for. I ended up buying the Martin Logan Grotto and still think it is a bargain about a year later.
The VRS-1 mates extremely well with 4JRs. It is important to fully explore placement (can make a big difference), lead-shot loading, bi-wiring, and good spikes, not to mention amplification with the 4JRs, they are capable of very good bass on their own.
I do appreciate the info... hadn't thought about the van dersteens... heard the 'Gratto' but wasn't impressed too terribly... have yet to hear the VSA sub... anybody care much for the Revel 's15' ? Looking around here I noticed a couple spots that got my interest up about it. Another friend says he has a Rel and if he were to do it all over agan... he would try the ACI Titan.

... and no mention of the Sunfire subs, huh? they do seem limited in bandwidth... 100hz... I think i'd like a tad more in that area... say up to 150hz perhaps... but then maybe not. just want the dog house bass to sound as strong as the rest of the combo, or at least a mite stronger, and certainly more tuneful.

Is there a big diff between forward firing & down firing subs, impactwise? (I know the VSA can be laid over but would not wish to do that...)
I have a REL Storm III and ended up taking it out of the 2-channel setup after a couple of months with my 4jrs. I loved it with my previous bass shy speakers, but with the jr's they just sounded better w/o it. There was more bass with the sub obviously, but when switched off the resulting bass sounded cleaner and faster.
ACI -- Force and Titan
Axiom -- EP-500 or the lower models
HSU -- several models avail.
Definitive Technology -- Supercube I, II & II subs
. . . that's all I can think of at the moment within your price range.
Why do you need a sub with these speakers? Do you have lead shot in them?
Most home audio subs dont perform well in the range that you wish to enhance. I would recommend passive live sound reinforcement or PA type bass systems. They excel at mid bass. Mackie and JBL come to mind. Check out
I do appreciate the info & experiences... the additional range I seek may well be attended to as we speak... via power cords at several locations... I've a noticeable presence there now... also in some tube replacements.

I suppose, given info from others I've met here having a non detented phase correction, switch, the ability to overcome or eliminate the crossover in the sub itself are important.... and IMO, a seemless integration with the JR's most important... funny I've not seen anyone mention good ol' Velodyne... or Bob Carvers offerings... they are certainly popular... one current REL owner says if he had to do it all over again he's go ACI... 'TITAN'...

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but I'd as soon run the thing in stereo off the RCA OUTS on my preamp... foregoing the additional speaker wire purchaseing... is that wrong? ...of am I missing something?
Just to answer a couple of the aforementioned queeries... Nope. No lead shot as yet.... soon, though.

I'm overly spiked in the JR area. Shotgun wires and recently used the Cardas setup John at Cardas set me onto... and the results were distinctively better in terms of bottom end performance. I was very close to begin with and just a few inches off their suggested mark (s)... using the 5 foot x 8foot rectangle and the resulting diagonal line to set the unit upon and thus reduce/eliminate two room nodes. Big improvement! Amazed me. I had about resigned myself to just living with where I had them...and the dreary toneless bass at between 50 & 60hz.. and it's multiples. Way better now. Really. 'Course, I ain't too big on how far into the room they are but I've enough space just now.

The Def TECH was one I thought to get though all the info and reviews pointed to more HT than stereo applications for those subs... consequently, I'll pass on the DT LINE UP.

YEP THE jr'S ARE CAPABLE OF DECENT BASS. pRODIGIOUS AMOUNTS ACTUALLY GIVEN THE TRACK INFO. Though I'd as soon have more flexibility and impact than I have now... That's all. ...and I've grown acoustomed to a more bass laden presentation... like bakc in the day when FM first came around... a really warm, full bodied dark presentation... though with more detail. I lean towards the lush and dark side of things I guess along with as sweet a top end as can be had.

So unless I get some input that truly can sway me from my current ideal, I'll probably end up waiting and getting one of the ACI Titan's... unless of course there is one with more musicallity for not much more... (used or new makes little diff to me here), and of course with the flexibility the Titan offers.

50 lbs per speaker.

This is *NOT* optional. I'm not sure why you're considering improving the bass with a sub when you can do so for less than a C note with a bunch of little pebbles.
OK. . . Drew... I'll do the shot thing ASAP. it was already on the list... in my area, (and it sure came as a suprise to me), the shot provider is a trap & skeet club that only opens on Wednesday, and Saturdays. Getting a ride out there is mostly the issue... I had planned to do it for my Xmas present to me... but was waiting till I got the speakers right where I felt they did their best... lots easier to move around a 45 lb. cabinet than a 95lb. one.... right? so it's just a matter of time... I think I'm pretty close to where I need to be in placement, though I'd like to try a couple more moves... mere inches makes a good bit of difference... and not being able to see it all taht well slows down things a good bit... but it'll happen soon enough...

One thing, the shot only affects tone of the bass, right? No re-positioning required, right? I mean the bass toneal change is just a somewhat tighttening of the bass tone, right? and I got a hallway on the left side that needs closing off by adding a door (s), too. so I'll flip a coin to see who's first... the open hallway lessens the left channel impact unless in the nearfield... or sit a bit off to that side otherwise. (I thought for the longeest time something was wrong with the gear... nope. Just the opening in that wall.... Amazing! Huh?)
Update: I've been trading emails with VSA concerning my REL sub. They have convinced me that if properly setup the REL can / will be benificial. I haven't moved it from it's old "dialed in" position when using my old speakers, but did turn down the crossover and I'm enjoying it enough that I pulled it off the for sale listings. I listen to mainly Rock and Roll and the additional bass is a nice touch. If you haven't already talked to the guys at VSA you should, eveyone I have dealt with has been very helpful and there's nothing like getting advice from the manufacturer.
I have spoken with VSA... Albert V, too. about placement and room treatments... Kevin as well, as to placements and subs... Sometimes they are not the most timely responses... but yes, they are very helpful. I get the impression from them as well as other, though, that subs are a matter of prefference like genres of music... significantly seems the crossover, range and harmonic presentation... I'm about certain I can add most anything to replace the one I have and do OK. It's old. and small. and not too powerful. But given the price to upgrade to another unit, I'd like range - cosmetics - and flexibility in both control and interfaces. The ACI titan, and the Revel 15 both have that... now it's price. I can hear the Revel locally and I will soon... but everything is on hold for me for the next couple three months or so... Taxes insurance... etc. So now is 'research' time. Hearing what others have done or are doing is valuable... and I am most apprcieative. Thanks.