Very disturbing what wives can do - first it was move them closer to the wall - did so, at significant cost of soundstaging and imaging - next, I come home and there is that huge, upholstered chair that she is crazy about, the size of the Whire House, completely obscuring the speaker! "What's the problem"? She asks, get higher speakers, then!!" So, I need your help. To do just that. I cant even see the right speaker now. The house-sized chair is planted right in front of the right speaker! Her revenge. Budget - about $10-12K, must have coherence of Kharma 3.2 Enigmas, which they will replace. (And which some lucky soul with a kinder wife can buy:) Must image 2 ft from front wall, 8 ft apart, room size, 23' X 16 ft X high A type ceiling. System: EMM CDSD/DCC2, Sota Cosmos V, EAR 324, AS MP-1, AS MA 2.2,(200 WPC, Class A, OTL - likes 8 ohm inpedance) PAD Dominus S/C. This is a serious request of y'all, so please, despite your suggestions of dumping the chair and the wife, let me know if there are any speakers out there that I should look at. Thanks.
That chair must have a high back. You might find some 4' high but then you may have to get used to listening while standing up. With the chair and other restrictions on placement you're going to have to compromise on sound.
How about moving the system to another room? That's probably too simple. ;-)
The speakers are 37" high and the chair back 35" high and 34" wide! The AS MA2's are housed in a coffin-like structure, built for them, 6.5 feet wide, straddling the speakers and weighing about 200 lbs! So, no, they cant be moved. The SP Tech Continuum 2.5s are 53" high, eg, and I'm sure there are others designed for normal seated listening, that are equally high. How do I post pictures on the forum? this will explain the set-up better.
Buy some thick Mapleshade or the like amp or speaker platforms (I have a couple that are 4" thick) and put the speakers on them? I do this with my ProAc D25's because of a spongy carpet and they work well. But really, the chair has got to go. That's just ridiculous (and I'm female). Insist upon your rights!
When you get your "four foot high" speakers, that can do everything that the Kharma 3.2 Enigmas can do, wonder what the wife will do to sabotage that effort? If it was me, I think I would find an extra bedroom, garage, or some other place to make a "man cave" out of, and I would put my system there. Your problem in not in finding a new pair of speakers, it's in accepting the fact, that your wife probably doesn't care for your hobby, and would probably be happier if you move your equipment and speakers elsewhere, than in what is in her mind "The She Cave". Seriously, if you're planning of $10-12K, then that money could be well spent in making a room (acoutically isolated, proper sound treatements, dedicated circuits, ect) where you could enjoy your music (and equipment) without intruding upon your wife's decorating taste. You'll be happier, and your wife will be happier, too, and it's probably the route you should be looking at, instead of "four foot high" speakers, hidden behind huge, upholstered chair the size of the "White House".
It's hard to insist on my rights when I've used 80% of the "furniture" budget to finance 3 Stereo systems, including my own basement system that she's not even allowed to enter! She hates the coffin, and everything else, so in return, I said re-furnish the Family room if you want - she wanted - and this is the result. She outsmarted me, as is usually the case with that X gene...........so my rights are used up, Sc53! Furthermore, the couch and chairs were made to order and took 6 months to make. She aint giving them up. Anyway, I want Speaker suggestions, not husband rights advice:):)! I certainly wouldn't be as generous as she has been if she had such an imbecilic hobby as we all have.
Didn't see any comments when I posted my last post. But seriously, you spend 80% of the "furniture" budget on three stereo systems, including your "own basement system that she's not allowed to enter" and yet you feel your wife is getting "revenge" for planting a "White House" size chair in front of one of your Kharma 3.2 Enigmas, and how she hates the "coffin size" structure that houses the AS MA2's?!? Thinks she's trying to tell you something. Hate to say this to you, but thia "imbecilic hobby" is turning you into a JERK (and btw, I'm a married man). Be a "decent man" and give her back "the family room", or don't be to surprised that the next thing that she "plants" is a letter from "her attorney" outlining the terms "she wants" in a divorce.
You don't need new speakers. You need a marriage counselor! :-)
With 3 other systems I think you should re-consider. 200 lbs. is not that much. Get some friends or hire some movers. Let your wife have her space. It is every bit as important to her as it is to us to have that space for our equipment.
Springbok10, I would suggest the Newform Research line (http://www.newformresearch.com/products.htm). I have been living very happily with the 645 for about six years. They are a hybrid with conventional bass drivers and a ribbon for the upper range. Not only do they sound and image in a splendid way, the ribbon "pole" tops out at 75". I am a musician and often honk along with my sax or clarinet. The height of the ribbons, at close filed is perfect for the standing (or over the chair) listener. Obviously as you move away from the speaker, this has less of an impact. Becasue the ribbon is tall but narrow, it is not like having a 6' behemoth in your room. I can not recommend these more "highly." They cost about $3500 with the Loonie and greenback at par. Perhaps with the savings, you could interst your wife in a stylish chair from BB Italia or Cassina. Good luck. David
Just raise the speakers using Omnimount gear and angle them downwards slightly. 200 lbs is not that heavy. ATC do this all the time for clients. I have used Omnimount brackets on smaller ATC's with no issues. You can hang them from the ceiling or wall or if you prefer - just get a stand.
Dynaudio Confidence C2's or C4's would meet your price criteria if purchased used. The C2's are approx. 61" tall and the C4's come in at 69" tall. I have no experience with Kharma's speakers, but I've owned the C2's and now own the C4's, and can tell you Dynaudio's Confidence line is no slouch. There's a pair of Rosewood C4's currently listed at a decent price that you can look at.
Where you may run into an issue is the 2 foot distance from the back wall. I currently have my C4's approx. 36" from the wall to the back side of the speaker. You could stuff the rear ports with the foam plugs that come with the speakers.
Considering that you have two other systems, another consideration is to sell your problematic system and dump the funds into one of your other systems. But then again, based upon your system description, it does not sound like funding is a problem for you ;).
The Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Grands are four-feet-ish. The cabinetry is as good as any piece of furniture in the house. The WAF is extremely high. Take the budgeted money that you don't spend and plow it into your excellent already front-end.
As an alternative, what's wrong with moving the chair and plant when you're goint to listen seriously. I do that. Use a lazer line and rule to get them back into their exact places. When you're not seriously listening it won't matter what's there. If you're like me, you do most of your serious listening while she's out. It'll be no secret that you're moving the furniture, but just what you need to do to enjoy your hobby.
Jeez, the guy asked for speaker advice without the marriage counseling, and now he is a jerk because he wants to stick to the topic? How many times does he have to say it? Springbok10 has been exceptionately good natured about this so far. Dude, if I knew of a speaker to solve your dilemma I would totally post it without any other advice just to show others it can be done. The rudeness up there^^^^^^is embarrassing.
Yea, but the marriage counselling is more fun to read and a lot of laughs . . . I agree with whoever said to move to the man cave and give her back the she cave. I just got WAF on a pair of Maggie 20.1s so I'm happy!
Cleaneduphippy, I have always disliked self-righteous pomposity, but since you have seen fit to call me a jerk, I guess I'll call it as it is. I've always disliked pomposity in any guise and I don't recall asking you for marital advice. This is Audiogon: Audio topics. There are many fora where you can help troubled married souls with social issues. I am not one of them - I just need an audio solution. Go look for these Social Help fora and feel fulfilled. Get off your high horse and follow Baffled's sage advice. Thanks, Baffled. You read my mind. As regards the original question, thanks to you all for your input. My guess is that the Moderators will pull this thread, as it's getting heated - too bad.
Springbok10, while I agree CleanedUp went over the line it was you who brought up the wife and in a somewhat disparaging way. So don't get too bent up about some of the comments since you started the discussion and brought in the non-audio parts yourself. Not to worry. This thread isn't so heated as you may think.
This is what I think you heard from your wife. "Blah, blah, blah, new speakers, blah, blah." That's what you seem to have keyed in on, "I must buy new speakers". Several have offered you good advice, but I still suspect from your comments that you just want new speakers. Well that's fine. Either way you are never, ever going to get any speaker to sound right with a chair sitting in front of it no matter how tall they are. It is a completely non-audio arrangement. All you are doing is helping the wife redecorate.
Dan_ed, I tried to inject some humor, as well as explain why I needed 4 ft high speakers. If I just posted "Help me find 4 ft high speakers", do you not think every post would ask why? Like maybe "Are you 4 ft tall?" :) Maybe it's cultural; good-natured disparaging of wives and self is not a bad thing if the wife thinks it's funny (mine does) - but it is not an invitation for pompous, serious, unsolicited marital advice. I'm not at all bent out of shape, but name-calling exceeds the boundaries of the usual comaraderie and self-deprecating (which this was)dialogue that I usually associate with Audiogon. I don't want new speakers and will try 6" platforms. But thanks for the comments.
Although I don't need to clear 4', I had to clear the 26" arm of the sofa & did this w/a driver that starts 31" from the floor. Any part of the driver that is below your 4' height will compromise the sound. The spkr sits only 14" from the sofa.
I think a custom made spkr would fit the bill or move the furniture when listening, as has been suggested.
Speakers I heard that fits the height criteria and ability to soundstage while placed close to wall is Epiphany Audio 12-12. This is also close to the stated budget.
I have heard the Epiphany with front baffle at 2-3ft from the front wall in a small room. To my suprise, they conjured up a deep soundstage and sounded very good. They can be driven with lower power amp but with MA2, they should be world class. Would also consider other array speaker (gradient & others) and dynaudio.
Denis- How about some of the line source array speakers that are getting some serious promotion here on audiogon? Maybe they even have an in-home audition policy. If so, let me know, I'm dying to hear them. And chill out everyone!!! Seems like everyone needs to get back on their happy pills!!!
Chadnliz and Timrhu, I cannot help you, since the request seems perfectly clear to me and to the other 23 respondents. I repeat the question: Suggest a tall, coherent speaker of comparable "quality" to the Kharma 3.2 FE that can work/image/soundstage 2 ft from the front wall. If this is not something you can answer, feel free to abstain. The fact that I choose to have 2 systems in my home should not cause you angst or confusion or any undue stress. But thanks for reading the thread, anyway.
wilson makes a couple of speaker taller than that and I've heard they sound great not sure the price new or used but check the wilson site for the partiular ones tall enough. good luck, I have to keep my wife out of the basement in order to maintain what I want down there. The rest of the house is hers
Your request is perfectly clear but Chad's point is valid. You can have 15 systems in your house without causing me any stress. I was just curious. BTW only half of the 23 responders gave advice you were looking for. Good luck with our search.
>>Why would you want to spend that kind of money for medicore to poor performsnce at best due to placement, and you already have your own music room...why is this?<<
I'll satisfy your curiosity, if I can, Timrhu/Chadnlz:
(1) What kind of money? The money that was already spent on the system before the chair? The money I preume you mean would be the money obtained by selling the existing speakers - that is what they are worth used. So there is no extra expenditure. Or do you mean why did I spend the money in the first place? To get a superb system, which it is when the chair isnt there. (2) Why do I have a second system? Because my wife and I share the Family room and she likes music, too. I play different music in my dedicated room at about 25 db louder, near-field. She likes classics only, I like it all. Feel free to ask away if this remains unclear.
I know many great speakers taller than 4' but none is designed to be placed behind a chair: as a result, some drivers would still be below 4' and thus hidden behind the chair. I assume you want something in which no driver except perhaps the woofers are behind the chair?
I would consider a subwoofer + very high quality monitors solution with the raised 4'. Qualities like imaging and coherence are easier to achieve wit monitors as well. Magicos are outside your stated budget, but perhaps people can suggest other combinations.
Springbok, I'm glad you are considering my suggestion of platforms. Indeed, I have ordered platforms from Timbernation on three occasions and they are SUPERB. I highly recommend this builder. His products are beautifully crafted, with or without spike feet, in different woods, and to the dimensions of your choosing. I use their platforms for two small Quad amps and for a pair of floorstanding speakers. I think you will be pleased and I hope your wife will be also.
Gorgeous 6" stands from Timbernation (the man does beautiful work) are in place and have solved the problem. The Kharmas actually have opened up in this big room and sound better even pre-chair dilemma. Thanks for your help!
Great choice Springbok; can you post any pictures of the speakers on the 6" stands? I want to see how massive the stands had to be and how the speakers look on them. Maybe you could create a Virtual System with pix? Thanks!