Need help: soundstage?

Jvia is right. And you have already pointed out what your system does do and doesn't do well. Things are centered (when they should be), but it sounds flat. So your ears are the best tool. A couple of things that might help. First, bass is important. It creates what I call a neutral zone--what I mean is an area that has little placement definition, but which other higher frequency things can be brought into perspective relative to the bass. I don't know if that made any sense, or just sounded like mumbo jumbo--but bass creates a sense of space (audio space that is). Without it, it's difficult to put other instruments or voices into spatial context--at least that's what I've found. Second, are the speakers, some create great 3D soundstages, others do not. I used to own a pair of Klipsch LaScalas--great tonally and dynamically--but they were never going to create a 3D soundstage with layers of instruments. I now own Martin Logans, just about the opposite of the Klipsch in almost every respect--they can really project a 3D soundstage. Assuming your speakers can deliver a convincing 3D soundstage I would suggest as Jvia says--listen. If you have not spent time experimenting with this before I will offer one suggestion that will help. Do things wrong first--what I mean is, put the speakers close the the rear wall and listen to what it sounds like when they are there. Put them too close to the side walls and listen. Toe them in too much and then not enough and listen. You will then know what creates what wrong to some degree and it will in the long run make the tweaking go easier. Even when I know about where and how much toe in for a speaker I always start at a point that is clearly off the mark, then gradually move toward the point that should be correct and go past that point, when I hear the degredation of the effect I just go back to the previous position and that usually does it. It takes a long time and it's an iterative process. If you want to do it fast and relatively painless--then the computer programs (RPG is pretty good), but it will sound the way they have theoretically calculated (typically frequency response only)--which might not have anything to do with what sounds best to you.

I'm sorry, to be so basic about this, but Have you moved the speakers about the room and sat down to listen? You can go to all the websites you want, ask me and everyone else in the world, but the best thing you can do at the moment is your basic 1/3rd 2/3rds setup, put on what you know to be some well recorded material, a piece you know well that on some system some where you have heard all the qualities that you are searching for and then start moving things around little by little till its right, and right not buy the books or the websites or by some others but by your own ears. Keep this up and we will have another audio fool out here selling us his room setup cd package and I gaurantee there be people jump on that bandwagon and trading insults and writing papers and will be buying and selling it used on the websites argueing which version is best.
And please, part of this is tongue in cheek, but really, I was just aghast that no one has told you to listen. You can write, so you must have some intelligence, you can hear I assume, so combine the two and I genuinely think you can be wonderfully surprised at the results. If nothing else, depending on where you live, I bet you can get three or four people that read this site to come over and help you with this.

I also find the Immedia site a useful different appraoch to the standard cardas set-up technique, I use some ideas I learned there in my system.

Please try this very simple tweak, put vibrapods between speaker and stand and you should hear deeper bass and often
improved 3D effects, only takes a minute to try.

Also you can purchase a TDS Passive Audiophile which also can improve 3D soundstage, cost $400 new or $250 used here.
TDS stands for True Dimensional Sound, there are reviews at
stereotimes.com and soundstage.com

The subwoofer will definitely help with regards to soundstage. Locating the sub is a trail and error process, but I would start in the front corner. Don't hesitate to experiment. Ideally, the sub should be setup such that you don't hear it until you turn it off.

Onhwy61,
The deepest bass of my speakers can go is 57hz. So, my speakers doesn't have a good soundstage,is it correct? I also have a subwoofer, and I haven't connect it yet. Does the subwoofer help to improve the soundstage? Where do people use to put the subwoofer: front corner, along the side wall or behind the corner of listening chair?
Thanks for your help
DT

http://www.immediasound.com/Speaker_set-up.htm

Hope this helps.

Hi jfrech, I went to the immediasound.com web site and they had no speaker setup info there. COuld you fill us in on their method?

The magic question. Speaker position is important, but by your measurements it sounds like your placement is pretty good. You can always fine tune placement. Bass is also important to round out images, especially in a large room. Your speakers should be able to fill a 12' x 15' room with some nice sound. The best imaging speakers have been, and are typically monitors. If imaging is a priority to you it seems we may be in the minority. What prompted me to respond was, "are the speakers not good enough to create 3D sound?". Better ($$$) products do not always provide better imaging. I have upgraded components and cables several times and in return for my money I get better dynamics, and sometimes more detail. But sometimes those products collapse the image and I am truly disappointed. More money is not always better when it comes to imaging. Buy components/speakers where the designers are concerned with imaging and not only will you be enjoying a magical system for many years, but in a few years you will own classic equipment instead of the latest, overpriced crap.

Setup is critical. Be sure to measure the speaker placement to a fraction of an inch. Also, a significant part of soundstage info, as opposed to imagining, is derived from low frequency hall reverb. If your speakers cannot produce deep bass, then you will not be able to obtain this effect. Regardless, most recorded music does not have the 3D soundstage you seek. Be sure that your reference listening music has this quality. Good luck!

Look at Immediasound.com. They have a different perspective on setup. Might do wonders. I've tried both and liked Immedia's better...with 2 different speakers..