you might as well find out now and not later.... phono stage and interconnects/speaker cables are/may be needed as well, and they can creep/pass toward that pre-amp number quickly.
you might need a phono cartridge as well, not to mention a serious lp cleaner.
fun but not an inexpensive hobby, worth every bit though. |
If you had to choose between one or the other would you go for ???
Tonal balance: slightly brighter and more detailed or warm, smooth and musical ?
Speaker size: Floorstanders, bookshelves, monitors, etc... physical constraints for each type also vary, so please include more info.
Speaker style: Dynamic, E-stat / Planar / Ribbon, Hybrid panel / dynamic woofer, horns, etc...
Dispersion characteristics: Do you prefer imaging / instrument placement over soundstage size or vice versa, how big of a sweet spot do you require, etc...
Speaker placement: distance from rear and side walls, any other specific requirements, etc...
Listening position: How far will you be seated from speakers, how far from rear wall, etc..
Obviously, we would all like perfection in every area, but knowing what compromises you are more willing to make along with room characteristics and speaker requirements will allow us to make more educated suggestions. Also, have you forgotten / taken into consideration that you will need some type of rack, various cabling ( interconnects, speaker cables, power cords ), possible PLC, are room treatments in the plans somewhere down the road, etc ??? Sean
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Point taken. I was taking interconnects and speaker cables as a necessary, albiet costly, given. I do have a Benz-Micro Glider cartridge already.
As for the phono stage. Aren't there some decent pre-amps with phono stage included? I suppose purists would eschew the idea and perhaps I am naive in thinking the two can be combined effectively. But, hey, it is advice that I am after here! :-) I have seen on another thread that several advise a tube preamp with a SS amp. |
Sean - Some interesting questions you pose.
I would have to say that I am not overly fond of an overly "bright" sound, but I do appreciate detail, if by that you mean, for example, the decay of a guitar string. Is a wram, detailed sound an oxymoron? :-)
I am not constrained by the physical size of the speakers. I have plenty of room and the setting does not preclude floorstanding speakers from an interior design perspective. it is MY room and I can do what I will with it. ;-) That being said, I am more concerned with the response and that they provide a good full range sound than in their physical size. The room is carpeted with mostly wood furniture other than my overstuffed chair, standard painted sheetrock walls, and has two sliding glass doors covered by drapes. Placement of the speakers within the room is wide open. I will arrange all furniture to suit stereo needs. It will be a stereo room first and foremost. ;)
Would have to say that I prefer imaging and instrument placement if given the absolute choice. Since I generally listen alone and usually in the same comfy chair, the sweet spot needn't be exceedingly large.
I would guess that I will be seated in a position with the front speakers about six to eight feet to either side and four to five feet in front of me. Back wall would then be about nine feet further.
Having lived a former life as a cabinet maker, I will be constructing my own racks, other than perhaps an isolation system for the table. Have recently purchased a PLC, too, for another application that fell through so it is now free! |
Sean - Some interesting questions you pose.
I would have to say that I am not overly fond of an overly "bright" sound, but I do appreciate detail, if by that you mean, for example, the decay of a guitar string. Is a wram, detailed sound an oxymoron? :-)
I am not constrained by the physical size of the speakers. I have plenty of room and the setting does not preclude floorstanding speakers from an interior design perspective. it is MY room and I can do what I will with it. ;-) That being said, I am more concerned with the response and that they provide a good full range sound than in their physical size. The room is carpeted with mostly wood furniture other than my overstuffed chair, standard painted sheetrock walls, and has two sliding glass doors covered by drapes. Placement of the speakers within the room is wide open. I will arrange all furniture to suit stereo needs. It will be a stereo room first and foremost. ;)
Would have to say that I prefer imaging and instrument placement if given the absolute choice. Since I generally listen alone and usually in the same comfy chair, the sweet spot needn't be exceedingly large.
I would guess that I will be seated in a position with the front speakers about six to eight feet to either side and four to five feet in front of me. Back wall would then be about nine feet further.
Having lived a former life as a cabinet maker, I will be constructing my own racks, other than perhaps an isolation system for the table. Have recently purchased a PLC, too, for another application that fell through so it is now free! |
I think there are way too many combo's for anyone here to give adequate suggestions. Nice stereos can be suggested, but it is a craps shoot for you. An easier approach would be for you to audition and find a speaker that grabs you, and then ask for amplification advice. Often a dealer will have amplification that will well match the speaker, but it is prudent to ask an independent knowledgeable person (like audiogon, usually) about it. You have a great start with that turntable. I would suggest that you pay considerable attention to the phono preamp. The smaller signals are delicate and easy to screw up. Perhaps, consider an integrated amp with an outboard phono pre. If not, probably the best phono-included line preamps in your range are older, used ones no longer in production. good luck and have fun. |
4yanxs- If you are searching for a tube sound without the hassles of tubes, you may wish to consider some of the hybrid amps. I have a Counterpoint SA-220 (under $1000 used)that is outstanding- warm and detaile (yes, it can happen1)with plenty of power to drive the Maggies. The tubes are in the initial amplification stage, so there is not much strain on them and they last a good long while.
The pre-amp Audible Illusions M3A, which is also tube WITH a very respectable phono section for low output MC cartridges. (About $1500 used) The MC phono is an option, the standard phono section is also good and handles cartridges with outputs >.9 mV.
As with most tube gear, one has the ability to change the tonal characteristics by using different tubes, but maintenence expense is very minimal.
For the type of music you listen to, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Maggies, although a powered sub will (sort of) turn them into a rock speaker. There are, no doubt, some other speakers that others could recommend to you that might fit your rock n roll needs better.
Lastly, your should be off to a great analog re-start with the TNT table- it doesn't get much better than that!
Regards
Jim |
Hi,
I recently went through a major overhaul of gear after living with the same stuff for years. I don't have the time to hang out in stereo stores and endlessly audition, so I did my upgrade by looking at various Stereophile reviews and then picking my spots. My tastes in music are similar to yours.
I wound up with an old Threshold FET 2 preamp that I got for around $300. Very nice unit that includes a phono section. Rumor has it the later model might be even better and has more adjustments for cartridge loading etc. Threshold is built like a tank and should last for some years.
The speakers wound up being Proac Response 1.5's. I'd only heard good things about Proac's and I wasn't disappointed. In truth I'd probably like the 2.5's more as the 1.5's can be a bit shy in the bass, but they sound great and I got them for about half price here on A'gon and they look great too.
I did audition several amps. Mostly as loaners from friends. I thought that the Threshold S/150 was too polite. My old Adcom GFA 555 was too bright. Some Audio Research tube stuff was pretty neat but too expensive so I settled on a CJ/Sonographe SA 250. If you like to really rock out at high volumes you may want to go for more watts, but the sound is very nice.
Good luck.
Phil |
Ohlala's advice is spot on, particularly the speakers first recommendation (one which is controversial here).
There are so many variables that you have to settle some or you'll drive yourself crazy solving your audio equation. You've got a good start with a quality analog rig, and your room flexibility is a great plus that many don't enjoy.
Like you, I awoke from my Rip van Winkle audio siesta of 20 years last summer. My first step was to play the monitor vs floor standing speaker game. In the end I went full range fs (Von Schweikert VR-5HSE) because, to me,they sounded better on classical symphonic music but still worked for chamber, jazz and vocals. I finalized on a hybrid phono pre (Herron) and tube line stage (Joule). Still haven't settled on amp(s) having tested 5 or 6 ss and tube units, but at least I've cut my variables down to one (ignoring cabling, a whole other equation).
My hunch is that a tube/ss combo will work best for you, ss punch for your classical rock and the tube warmth and delicacy for those female vocals.
But pick your speakers first. Monitors might demand a subwoofer for your classic rock, which could be difficult given your budget.
Come back to us when you've picked your speakers and perhaps we can provide some helpful suggestions on amplification.
You have a lot of fun ahead of you - when frustration builds, and it will as you search for your audio nirvana, remind yourself that it should be fun!! |
Let me say that I very much appreciate all the input so far. I should apoligize upfront for my "shot in the dark" sounding inquiry. After 20 years "out of the game" I am a bit overwhelmed by the number of choices currently available and the wide range in pricing for components that are often reviewed to be of rather equal quality. I don't have the budget that would provide me with much of the equipment listed in other threads over which I, too, salivate. My intention was to stay within an overall budget of about $8-10K. I know that this will not allow the "audio nirvana" so many seek - I am only trying to come within arm's reach. After all, for the last five years I have muddled through with an Onkyo A/V receiver, a pair of Infinity Sterlings, a refurbished pair of my old Ohm C-2's, and a Klipsch sub - all of which are being moved to the "other" room to be exclusively used by the "rest of the family" as a "not to be upgraded" home theatre system! :-)
I have heard others say good things about the Proac speakers and I shall audition some. To let the proverbial cat-out-o-the-bag, here are my initial thoughts on specific components. Please, DO feel free to chime in with regard to plusses, minuses, and otherwise regarding this combination.
Preamplifier/Phono Stage
Audible Illusions Modulus 3A (recognizing that may/will need to trade/sell the Benz Glider for a more suitable cartridge)
Amplifier
Aragon 8008BB or Conrad-Johnson MV-55 or McCormack DNA-1
(maybe a Jeff Rowland Model 2 if I can muster a bit more dough)
Loudspeakers
Vandersteen 3A Signatures
PSB Stratus Gold i
(and I will give the Proacs a go) |
My brain hurts! :-)
Perhaps, given that the only other front end I plan to use in this system is a Phillips CD (for occasional play and burning), I might want to consider an integrated amp with a better quality phono stage. (?) YAB? Cary? Bow Wazoo? |
4yanx:
All of the advice that was given to you so far seems to be pretty good advice, and certainly, that would be advice that I would adhere to to a "T". I think that would be my $.02 worth on this very issue.
Now, as for your analog front end, you seem to have land a front end that I am going to envy for a long time. You have landed a VPI TNT turntable, and as far as I am concerned, Linns aside, I take it that from the people here who own them, they seem to swear by them, and they regard the VPI TNT to be the turntable by which other turntable designs are to be judged and measured by. By the fact that I am looking hard at the junior version of this turntable, the VPI Scout with the JMW Memorial 9 Tone Arm, speaks volumes about the turntable you have chosen to be the front end of your system. In that VERY department, you seem to be off to a good start so far.
Now, as for your choice in components so far, I don't know specifically what type of sound you are after. But if it were me, I would go for a detailed sound that is coupled with neutrality given your mixture of rock and jazz albums. But given your budget, I like your choice of the Vandersteen 3 Signatures (for warmth). But, if you want to spend more of your budget on either better electronics or for better cables, then I would also try to hunt down a used pair of Vandersteen 3A's if that is at all possible. That's just another idea to throw into the arena so to speak. After you have settled the speaker issue, here is how the rest of my system would shape up.
Speaker System: Vandersteen 3A Signatures (brand new), or Vandersteen 3A (used).
Power Amplifier: McCormack Power-Drive DNA-1.
Preamplifier: McCormack RLD-1.
Phono Stage: I would try either a Lehmann Audio Black Cube (with the upgraded power supply...... about $900.00), or a Monolithic PS-1/HC-1 (about $700.00). Of the two, I would lean toward the Monolithic. I say the Monolithic because the Monolithic seems to be more versatile than the Lehmann Audio Black Cube, meaning that it can be adjusted to match a wider range of phono cartridges whereas the Lehmann Audio (????), I don't know if it has a whole lot of adjustments or not. I am going to let that be your call here.
Good Luck...... and welcome back to analog. I am getting into analog myself.
--Charles-- |
I am sure this will be the dumbest post you read all week. I have never heard a good analog system. This is because I remember all my records sounding loaded with static, popping, and other unwanted sounds. Once CD's came out, I never played another record. I recently began upgrading my old system and found Audiogon. I didn't even know there were people still into vinyl. When I was young, I had assumed the extra noise was from the records decaying from me playing them too much. I still have all my records from the 70's & 80's. Are you guys saying that good equipment will take the snap, crackle & pop out of those records? Or would I also need "new" records? God forbid there is a sound out there better than cd's I am in the middle of spending over 10K on a new system. The news that I may need to spend more may devistate my wife. |
Rockhead, good analog equip. will take alot of the noise out of listening to vinyl. A good record cleaning machine, proper record deck/arm/cart., correctly designed phono stage that will not overload, will take away most of the annoying sounds and minimize any that can't be removed.Keep those records and learn how to make the most out of them. |
Where are you Rock? I will personally come pickup those nasty, noisy old LP's from you and haul them away for nothing! |
If your just using this system for analog, why not get a phono stage with a volume pod on it and skip the pre-amp altogether? Just a thought. |
