Bout anaolgue
I play some records on MMF-5 turntable and tapes an a NAK cr-7a.
I am new to vinyl but it sounds much better than Cd except for the weaker base and some brightness in the highs.
I listen to cds 80% of the time. |
Lots of thanks to all of you for the fast response. About my room here are some aspects of it
1-Floor: carpet
2-Ceiling Cathedral
3-2 large windows facing the gear and speakers rright behing my sitting position. the have hunter douglas drapes covering them.
dimensions :18 x24 feet. i ll draw a simple sketch. horizontal is the 24 and vertical is the 18 foot
__________________________________________________
---plasma on wall--- s c
Cabinet { Gear } a
x x b
entrance i
( --table 2x4 ft---- n
( Ch e
( et ot L R t
( Ch ((((((S o F a))))))
(________________________________________________
Sorry guys this is the best i can do .here is the key
s=subwoofer of my home theater(super cube 1)
x= both andras
r=recliner
l=my listening position on the sofa
ch=chair
et=end table
ot=ottoman
the gear is in a tripple salamber cabinet that is 31 inches high and 22 inches deep and 66 inches wide.
i thanks alll again and i am happy to be on this site. i will try some og th suggestion. i do not have room or money for another now. and also musical fidelity is not bad it really sounds good expcept for the brighness. My ultimate plan if my wife lets me make a dedicated room in the basement , instead of an all storage basement! i can get something like a mac 402 or 602 and give a preout form the kw 500. and bi amp them after upgrading into Anrda 2 biwired so i can give musical fielity to either the woofers or nids and tweeters and the other to the mac. however the system will have total power of 1600 w, this is and so expensive.
thanks to all of you |
I am sorry disregard the previous sketch , i tried doing it using letter and brackets it got confused when made into text by audiogon. Sorry for that |
iam so happy but overwhelmed with the plethora of knowledge aNd input i am getting from you. here are the results of my first day.
On the way home i called my wife to turn on the kw 500 , it needs 35 minutes to warm up. when i got home i thoughT about movingthe speakers. The left wall is an entrance and a knee wall so there is not much reflection. the right wall is nothing but a wooden cabinet. i put the speakers strAight, with zero toe in AND then moved the right slowly about 10 degrees at a time.untill something happened.
"I WAS ABLE TO LISTEN TO A SOUND QUALITY I HAVE NEVER HAD BEFORE, I PUT IN ABOUT 30 CDs I WENT FROM ONE TRACK TO THE NEXT FOR 3.5 HOURS. THE BRIGHTNESS AND PAIN IN THE RIGHT EAR Were GONE. YES. GONE. IT WAS DUE TO REFLECTION FROM THE WALL UNIT ON THE RIGHT. I TOEd THE RIGHT SPEAKER MUCH MORE THAN THE LEFT. IT woRKED GREAT. I HAVE EVERYTHING, THE BASS, THE MID RANGE IS SOOOOOOO GOOD. THE HIGHS ARE STILL SHARP. THE SYSTEM IS STILL BRIGHT BUT IT IS NOT HURTING MY EAR. WHAT A NICE START. A LOT OF PROGRESS FROM THE FIRST DAY. I AM SO HAPPY THAT I AM AFRAID TO TOUch OR REPOSITION the andras as IF I FOUND A TREASURE.
I LL TRY THE INTERCONNECTS FOR MorE FINE TUNING BUT NOW I CAN LISTEN FOR HOURS AT LEAST.
I LET YOU KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS
THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND |
Thanks a again to all of you. I tried again today and i am happy with the results it is still bright in the highs and "S" on Patricia barber SACD is like a knife to my ears.
but no pain, i am content with that for now.
From my limited experience with the reviews they do not mean a lot. they all say that it is an great equipment they pick some defects and may be compare. Now they do this on thier systems with ear and my be some numbers.
the problem is ,I am after a certain sound quality that i have in my head. like an imagination or dream i may say. You all know what works for one does not for the other. My brother for example loves warm non bright system. he listened to my sonos faber grand piano home speakers and he loves them so much despite a lot of limitations.
I think the musical fidelity is very musical> it doe snot have the punch of krell for example. I listen to a violin and i can fell the vibreation of teh string and I feel the music. The andra are known for respecting the relaying the emotion in sound. I have no problem with the musicality, since yesteday i have tapping my feet and preventing myself from dancing and waving my body with some tunes. i close my eyes and i fell one with the music. I lost a little bit of the space between the sounds but detail and teh depth and the decay(i am not sure if i am using the right term for the right thing, pardon my ignorance) are outstanding. It is scary, yes you eill feel it is really and physically infront of you and real. so musical . and the rhythm is great i can catch any rhythm so easily inside the music, like a drum, bass, guitar, clapping.
can you all imagine that i found all this with yesterday's toe in. i put masking tape to mark the position. i tried toe alittle bit out , just one inch. it got ugly, i moved back again.
The base, i mean the very low notes are little boomy in one or two cds and the notes last longer than they should i guess this is reflection.
The speakers are about 5.5-6 feet apart. the are about 4 feet from the wall behind them(where the plasma is) and i sit about 7 feet from each speaker exactly in the middle. they are really close to me.
I have an idea now it may silly but you guys let me know. The biggest proble of all time I think is the mismatch of equipment, the synergy. a well match 3k system my be better than a mismatched 10 k system despite it's limitation.
why don't we have a threar or a special forum on a website where audiophiles try to use an objective system to help with this problem i am into research and i know that people can make things beetre if they collaborate using the same langauge. I have lot of details regarding this i just got it now, if you guys think it is a good idea we can talk more about it. Need has always been the mother of invention.we can adjust the variables so people can refer to this refence to help buy or even limit their auditions and waste of money
I am not going to mention each individual name who gave me an input but once again. thanks soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much |
how far are they from the side walls...measured from the wall to the center of the drivers?
Thanks for your concern
Fom the right wall unit to the center of the drivers about 3.5 feet no more than 4. from the left it is about 5 to 6 feet but it is the entrance and a knee wall no high wall and behind them a small cabinet in the corner. |
I am a little confused.
Some say MF is the problem, at least on eof the 2. Others say it is the cable. Very few said it is teh speaker.
At least for now i am attached to the MF and i can't buy any music equipment above $800 for a whole year. so all what i can do now is swap cables.
Even for this i have a lot of recommendations. some brands i never even heard of.
i am already expecting the AZ silver refernce II i ll try it nayway. it it doesnot work for what is next?
I have to write down all the suggestons above and pick one, i guess.
The only possiblity i am not prepared for now is that THE ANDRA AND THE MF IS NOT A HAPPY MARRIAGE . BOTH ARE GOOD BUT BELONG WITH OTHER EQUIPMENT.
I WILL BRING MY SONAS FABER DOWN AND TRY THEM WITH MF TO SEE IF THE ARE AS BRIGHT.
I WILL TRY MY DENON DVD-5910 TO WITH THE AMP TO SEE IF THERE IS ANY CHANGE MAY BE THE CD PLAYER IS THE PROBLEM.
AND THEN THE INTERCONNECTS.
I THOUGT AFTER PAYMING THAT MUCH I LL HAVE PEACE OF MIND AND ENJOY LISTENING, AND THST'S IT, BUT IT HAS JUST STARTED. |
location. location. location..positio.positio.position
more progress.
I started all over again i pushed the speakes back to the wall less than a foot away and started again.
Here are some conclusions, to some of you who are experts it may be a given but to other it may be of help
the bass got strong but was a little boomy. when i started to toe in it got better and the imaging got better too. The quality is different than when the speakers are 3 feet away from the wall and 6-7 fet from me, i was sitting in the middle of the music, it was 3D in every aspect to an unrealistic but addicitve way. now it is clear but i lost that hologram effect. i may trying to achieve what is unreal. real sound in a concert hall , even in the best spot is not hologram like, correct me if i am wrong.
With the speaker close to wall and very slightly toed in i was able to escape some of the reflections on the right book case. This is my problem guys, the right book case. the middle of such case is a flat wood wall and the bottom is granite fireplace. when the speaker is at a certain angle which i am too close to find the out edge of music going to that wall reflects, this is the problem. i even hear the interument echoing at a certain angle and even their tome changes.
Also with the speakers close to the wall and far form me, the sound stage moved far from me , mostly infornt of me so refelctions are much less.
I guess there is no win win here. I am greedy i want it all especially after spending a lot i thought i can get it all. i have to keep tring.Then i will start the long cable swap marathon. but i found that position if the problably the greatest factor that can cause major changes. In realestate they say the most important is location, location, location. I guess this is true for our case too.
thanks much to all of you |
Guys. i can send you an accurate layout as an email attachement i can have it ready by tomorrow with all dimensions and everything.
But to what email to send the attachement to.
I tried to do here but it si onlt test message. i can even take pics and send it.
let me know
thanks |
my family room :
rectangular, with catherdral ceiling the longitudinal axis of the ceiling is along the long side of rectangle.
you enter throug a 3 foot opening and there is step down into the room, dtep is about 5 inches.
when standing after the step you back to the entracne(you have not walked in the room at all you are along the long axis of the rectange measuring about 20 feet and perpendicular to the shor dimension measring about 16-17 feet
right to your left is wet bar measuring H 31 x L 50 depth 36 inches. there is another acinet aboive it on the wall .
after the wet bar there is 1.5 by 1.5 foot cgap between the bar and salamander cabinet. the left andra lives infront or inside this gap if i get it very close to the wall.(this is like a 3 sided box). then the gear cabint L 66, hight 21 depth 22 inches. above it is center speaker and plasma on the wall. after the cabinet comes a larger gap unitll we reach the built in wall unit, made mainly od wood. cabinets and shleves. This gap is about 4-4.5 feet. there live s the right andra close to the cabinet and a definitive tech super cube 1 between the andra and the cabinet. The right is andra is kind of between the cabinet and this sub if i push it back.
The wall unit takes he whole wall it is right infornt of you. in the middle is solid wood wall between the 2 cabinets underneath which is a granite fireplace with glass doors.
to your righ i a wall that comprises 2 huge windows that take most of this 16-18 foot wall. there 2 foot gap between the windows and another one foot gap between the second window and the wall on your righ which is knee wass about 2.5 -3 feet high.
you are still at the entrance to your right are 2 fabric chairs with with 16 x 31 stone table between them and small ottoman infront the table
a leather sofa for 3 person back againt the windows, the center of the sofa is at the center of the gap between the 2 windows which is the at the center of the plasma screeen and the cabinet. this sofa is 3-4 inches from the wall.
right next to sofa on it's right, is a recliner tilter so it faces the TV, it's back partially faces the mindow and partially the built in cabinet in the wall.
infornt of the sota, right in the midde, and one foor waway from is a huge stome cocktail table measuring 2 feet by 3.5 feet and 1.5 feet high. the stome is not marble it is partially glzed ireegualr cheap king of stone.
a fan hanging from the cathedral ceiling up high.
i gues i got most if not all of it.
good luck imagining it
thanks |
my family room :
rectangular, with catherdral ceiling the longitudinal axis of the ceiling is along the long side of rectangle.
you enter throug a 3 foot opening and there is step down into the room, dtep is about 5 inches.
when standing after the step you back to the entracne(you have not walked in the room at all you are along the long axis of the rectange measuring about 20 feet and perpendicular to the shor dimension measring about 16-17 feet
right to your left is wet bar measuring H 31 x L 50 depth 36 inches. there is another acinet aboive it on the wall .
after the wet bar there is 1.5 by 1.5 foot cgap between the bar and salamander cabinet. the left andra lives infront or inside this gap if i get it very close to the wall.(this is like a 3 sided box). then the gear cabint L 66, hight 21 depth 22 inches. above it is center speaker and plasma on the wall. after the cabinet comes a larger gap unitll we reach the built in wall unit, made mainly od wood. cabinets and shleves. This gap is about 4-4.5 feet. there live s the right andra close to the cabinet and a definitive tech super cube 1 between the andra and the cabinet. The right is andra is kind of between the cabinet and this sub if i push it back.
The wall unit takes he whole wall it is right infornt of you. in the middle is solid wood wall between the 2 cabinets underneath which is a granite fireplace with glass doors.
to your righ i a wall that comprises 2 huge windows that take most of this 16-18 foot wall. there 2 foot gap between the windows and another one foot gap between the second window and the wall on your righ which is knee wass about 2.5 -3 feet high.
you are still at the entrance to your right are 2 fabric chairs with with 16 x 31 stone table between them and small ottoman infront the table
a leather sofa for 3 person back againt the windows, the center of the sofa is at the center of the gap between the 2 windows which is the at the center of the plasma screeen and the cabinet. this sofa is 3-4 inches from the wall.
right next to sofa on it's right, is a recliner tilter so it faces the TV, it's back partially faces the mindow and partially the built in cabinet in the wall.
infornt of the sota, right in the midde, and one foor waway from is a huge stome cocktail table measuring 2 feet by 3.5 feet and 1.5 feet high. the stone is not marble it is partially glzed ireegualr cheap king of stone.
a fan hanging from the cathedral ceiling up high.
i gues i got most if not all of it.
good luck imagining it
thanks |
Sorry guys about the typos. iwas at work and i had no time to review it. my apology |
The room has a thin kind of carpet,not thich and fluffy. the windows have paper like material blinds on them.
thanks |
Great news
Last night i pulled the rack out, i pulled the amp out of the panamax and plugged it into the 20 amp circuit directly. i have never done that before.
I have never listened to my system before untill this moment. about 80 % of the brightness is gone. I knew there is something exraordinarly wrong. The sound became so smoooooooooooooooth and warm. the highs went back, way back and i got a balanced sound.
then i tried to plug it to 15 amp monster avs 2000 i use for my home theater . i got the same good result but the details and the bass were dowm, i could tell the difference.
i added the monster hts 5100 surge protector to the avs 2000 the brightness showed again.
the power is the main porblem the amp is not doing well with all the surge protectors i have
the problem with wall outlet there is is slight shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i can hear when the music is silent and when ther is no music and i turn the volume up i hear a very clear and loud shhhhhhhhhhhh. i do not hear that with any of the three surge protectors or power generators.
is it safe to keep an expensive amp hooked directly to the outlet.?
i tried positioning the speakers again it is a different story now. i can play loud, i went to half the volume my ears were fine. this amp is so musical i could hear little tunes between the other tones i originally could hear in the other set up, such surfacing tunes and details made it so musical. i got the balance i want. even most of the SSSSSSSSS disappeared except for patricia barber and some nat kin cole songs,.i can live with that
now how on earth can such a switch make such a difference in the quality of sound, i am talking about a rebirth of an amp. i am not an expert but i know it is all about power after all.but to that extent!!!!!!!!!
i am now between a choice of unsafe, happy listening with unclean power or compromised listening with surge protcetion.
the ultimate is to get a superb 20 amp surge protector or conditioner.
thanks a gain and sorry to confuse you |
Dear listener57
Please clarify , you mean by "there" the outlet in the wall. the hissing is exactly like the hiss of the old tapes wihout the dolby NR on. it igoes up with thvolume at low volumes there is non yo turn the volume you get it. it is there with or without music.
I am not sure a always thought power cords are like snake oil becasue the current is the current what will change. I guess i may change my mind. |
I ma sorryprevious message was for audiophile1. mya be i should not write anything at work. thanks |
well right now i have the kw 500 hooked directly into the wall and the kw sacd is hooked into monster hts 5100 that hooked to monster avs 2000 that is attached to the same dedicated line.
your suggestion is to pug that monster with the cd player into another outlet, like the 15 amp home outlet next to it.
i ll try it. thanks |
Dear ET
When you say regenerated power what exactly did you use. This who power conditioners and regeration is new ot me as part of the high end audio. i thought of protection only. now i need a very good conditioner/ protector/regenerator. is there something that does the three good? i am not sure
thanks |
Cello amplifier(monoblocks)
Througha family friend i hav a chance to buy 2 cello monblocks at a reasonable price.
I never heard of cello before is it a good one. he told me it was founded by Mark Levinson. The amps were baught in 1996. I am getting more details on them.
would this be a good choice for the andra and the kw 500 which i am going to use as a preamp only for the tubes in it.
and is it a good amp to buy? he told me that these worth $40000 in 1996. I guess it should be good , but after i learned the lesson with my gear, i ask and get a lof opinions before spending more money.
thanks |
Dear Audiophile 1
Thanks for you valuable advice . I will consider most if not all of it. I just try combinations of things, since I lack experience. So all the set up was my own design.
I will try to get a hydra 2 although it is a discontinued model, but i think it is good.
I ll move all the home theater and only the home theater to the avs 2000. AVS 2000 is not a surge supressor, and does not offer protection. that is why i am using the htp 5100 with it. this what monster recommends.
I will plug the amp either directly to the wall or try the hydra.I will get a new power cord
also i am waiting for acoustic zen matrix II and silver reference II RCAs so i wiil try them also
i am not sure about the cello, i may be able ot try it, althought it may not have enough power i believe it is 200 w for each monblock, i l check on that.
thanks for you advice. |
Dear Et
Thanks for your input. where does the shunyata hydra fit in this?
thanks |
I tried a lot of things. i did move them apart it helped a little bit but the sound changed. Here are the main things i tried recently.
1-the amp directly into the wall: the best result so far.
2- i switched to my denon dvd 5910. it has an audio direct where it shuts the dvd off even the screen is off.you will be surprised that it sounded warmer and fuller. it was not as transparent. it sounded close to the krell standard which i tried on my system. i can listen for 3 hours without fatigue.
so before giving up on the MF sacd i will try everything first, interconnects, hydra 2, power cords.
thanks |
I got the AZ interconnects and tried them all day.
I did not feel a lot of difference between the two except that the silver is a little more detailed.
HOWEVER, IT IS BY FAR MUCH ,MUCH,MUCH BETTER THAN THE NORDOST IN MY SYSTEM. GUYS FOR THE FIRST TIME I COULD LISTEN FOR MORE THAN 7 HOURS TOTAL . i TRIED ALL THE CDS THAT WERE HARSH TO MY EAR ESPESCAILLY THE RIGHT EAR WHERE I THINK I AM GETTINF SOME REFLECTION FROM THE WOODEN UNIT AND THE GRANITE FIREPLACE. ALL OF THEM SOUNDED GOOD.
THRE HIGHS ARE MUCH NICER, I DON'T WANT TO SAY MUFFLED, THEY ARE THERE BUT NOT IN MY EAR ANY MORE.
SO AFTER HOOKING THE AMP DIRECTLY TO THE OUTLET THIS WAS A GOOD MOVE.
NEXT IS THE POWER
I AM EXPECTING SHYUNYATA HYRA, I WILL TRY IT FOR THE AMP AND THE CD PLAYER, HERE IS MY PLAN
I WILL SAVE SOME MONEY FOR I GOT BIG HOLES IN MY POCKET NOW
I WANT TO GET THE SHUNYATA ANACONDA FOR THE POWER AMP
SHYNYATA PYTHON HELIX ALPHA TO THE HYDRA 2 AND PYTHON Vx TO THE CD PLAYER.
I MAY CALL THE ELECTRICIAN TO INTALL HOSPITAL GRADE 20 AMP WALL OUTLET. THE ONE I HAVE MY BE POOR QUALITY
WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THIS BUDGET KILLING PLAN. iF THIS DOES NOT WORK, I WILL SELL MY CD AND FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO, JUST KIDDING |
Guys. thanks to all of you. My problem is the room too. Although i had sonus faber drand piano in this roon they were so great, it is when i got the andra and the new gear as an upgrade, an expensive upgrade that i ran in to all these problems.
the wall infrom of me and the wall to my right, these 2 walls making the right angle are problem, there is no left wall as it is the entrance.
the front wall. from left to right, you are facing it
1-wet bar: 4 feet wide, 1.5 ft deep and 2 feet high.
2- a 1.5 foot space, only the wall. infront is the left andra 1.5 feet from the wall
3- gear cabinet: 5 feet wide, 1.5 ft deep 1 foot hight.
4- an empty area where there is only the wall for about 4 feet until you meet the wooden built in cabinet of the right wall. in this space is the right andra 1.5 ft away from the wall and next to it is the definitive teeh super cube 1 close to the wall.
both adra are fewinches away from the gear cabinet.
as you can see for the left speaker i can't move it side ways as it bounded by the wetbar and the geart cabinet ican pull it way forward but it will be in the way. i have more freedom with the right andra.
the right wall is a hube wall to wall wooden unit with a granite fireplace in the center.
my sofa were i listen is right infron the gear cabinet about 8 feet or more.
between both andras about 5-6 feet.
u hope this will give you an idea about the room
I HAVE ROOM IN THE BASEMENT BUT IT IS NOT FINISHED SO THE FLOOR IS CONCRETE AND THE GEAR WILL ACCUMULATE DUST VERY FAST. YOU THINK I CAN TAKE THIS SYSTEM DOWN. I MAY FREEZE IN THE WINTER, I CAN GET A HEATRE OR SOMETHING. BUT WHAY ABOUT THE DUST AND SPEAKER. THEY WILL BE ANTIQUE IN A YEAR OR 2. THE GOOD NEWS THE BASEMENT IS DRY AND NOT HUMID. LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK GUYS.ANY BODY HAD AN EXPERINCE WITH EXPENSIV EGEAR IN UNFINISHED BASEMENT.
do you get the picture.
thanks |
