My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
at some point of time jay will definitely have to experiment with good sub woofers as well.no audio system is ever complete without a subwoofer.again subwoofer is not for just more bass or slam or SPL, they simply improve the spatiality and definition of bass and augment main speakers.even though alexia 2 can dig deeper and mephisto can provide good slam, a subwoofer can do things that main speakers cannot even dream about. there is a a reason even WAMM chronosonic 800k comes with 100k thor hammer subwoofers. and same with YG or magico that have specialised subwoofers because ultimate lower bass definition can simply not be achieved out of a conventional full range speaker how ever expensive it might be. |
good find jay. and glad to see good results for mephisto with the rack.have heard good things about artesania. LOL. those cms footers dont work with boulder, m400.what on earth do they work well with. and jay one Question.those CMS amp stand with boulder.did you notice an improvement or boulders were as good as they were on the floor earlier without the CMS amp stand |
@viber6 i have CH M1.1 and L1 preamp.i think gryphon mephisto and M1.1 are in the same league and one is not better than another and both have very different kind of presentation and for different people in terms of what they are looking in terms of presentation CH is an extremely modern amplifier with tons of customizability and no other company comes close to it . both mephisto and CH are very detailed. - also some one needs to clearly explain the word DARK adjective that always gets used with gryphon in general and mephisto that gryphon amps are dark. some take it in a good way and some take it bad way depending upon which camp you are |
@kren0006 i do not think WC rebuked @viber6. i always find viber’s remarks or contrarian opinion or even criticism to be very constructive. viber is not like techno. he was trying get clarification and reconcile presentation comparison on christine/mephisto vs pandora/mephisto and WC clarified that with a reply.thats all. main thing we all have different perceptions of adjectives used in characterizing something. relaxed sound , sweet top end , organic, natural can mean different things to different people and needs to put in comparatively and relatively correct to make sense of it |
@whitecamaross wc/jay you have a heart of a gold.you have been very sincere , frank and you have always taken constructive criticism the right way. but a few bad actors have taken this too far and done this in bad taste. i can understand how it feels and your response towards it. the overwhelming majority of folks here fully understand , appreciate and cherish your efforts. just ignore them and let's not engage these folks with a reply anymore.not worth it. keep up your great work and continue with your experiments which you do with so much passion and sincerely. you have helped us with your insights a lot and will be always thankful for that.you are a thorough gentleman. |
@whitecamaross fully agree with you and love the analogy you quoted. and you are right, it's not only gryphon and other manufacturers also have these kind of kind of tantrums. appreciate your humility and fully thankful for your hard work and efforts to outline and highlight these issues around synergy which we need to be mindful of. one more angle i have heard from amp makers is they are not even aware of such kind of things. and other way to look at it as they have not invested in heavy engineering around cable science and power supply as its not their core area.they come up with a design which is based on assembling parts made by others and then testing based on a few cables or scenario or setup michael fremor used to say that, till some time amp makers refused to believe that power cable makes.a diff.michael said he had to bring them to their listening room and show them a demo to make them change their mind. |
@whitecamaross reg footers for wilson alexx i think stillpoints 5 or 7 is a far better choice than iso acoustics gaia. and michael fremer uses stillpoints 7 as his permenant solution under alexx for last few years. i have personally used gaia.they are decent but they kind of form a suction cup and sometimes disintegrate when you try to move them. but hats off to isoacoustics when that happened to me, they sent a replacement next day. |
@viber6 XLR 6v output is the defacto standard now days for the last few years. i used to have lumin t2 before and it was 6v on XLR and 2V on RCA and this was fixed, thats it. 2v ship has sailed and it was meant older CD players. reason dcs also gives other lower voltage option is to make sure if there are any older pre-amp and power amps that might have problem with input voltage sensitivity can work seamlessly. it also works as flexible option to compensate for overall gain or impedance in the system to change it across dac , pre-amp or power amp when we mix and match various components. i find 6v setting on rossini to have the best clarity, texture and liveliness. |
@zprr i talked to 4 dealers who carry both nordost and ansuz. and all of them whole heartedly recommend ansuz and say c2 beats odin 1 and d2 beats odin 2. same as what @thieliste said. ansuz was born out of nordost dna. some folks say ansuz was born out of a frustration due to lack of innovation in nordost. if u see series 1 they are more than a decade old and series 2 were launched in 2014. one way to think is nordost products are so solid that they stand the test of time due to the quality of engineering and performance another way to look at it is lack of innovation and 6 years for series 2 and 12 years of series 1 is a very long time time in this space if you look at competitors like ansuz, wireworld, synergistic research etc. even if odin 1 might be a terrific performer but it sucks in the price to performance ratio along the cable spectrum , even for a high end system. |
@whitecamaross great video and you nailed it and summarized it perfectly - it is not surprising at all that gryphon cables are a better match than valhalla 2 - for XLR and speaker cables impedance matching is key also the equipment manufacturer has a better understanding of the characteristics than a generic cable manufacturer like nordost who has to make a universal cable to match different pre-amp, amp and speakers. |
@whitecamaross WC great video. as usual you have stuck gold mine in performance leap. feets and isolation bases do take the performance to the next level try changing the feets on dcs and put it on a isolation base and iam sure that will improve the overall performance as well. |
@whitecamaross WC Did you get a chance while testing to connect 860A V2 directly to the dcs rossini dac and do you have any thoughts and comments on dac direct to power amp where dcs was used as a pre-amp. is dac direct performance adequate or good by any chance? |
@zprr excellent thoughts and very well summarized. so ref10 is 15% better than 740p where 740p is 9k and ref10 is 30k in price 850P is 33k in price.since you said ref 10 and 850p were very close in performance would you say that 850P is 15% better than 740P or more. the price difference is enormous not only between the premaps but even both ref10 and 850P cost way more than 860A V2 which is just 18K. |
@speedbump6 I fully agree with you. we can never be satisfied and thats the fun part or sometimes the curse part of this hobby.once you listened to something better its hard to go back to the lower end gear. wanted to find a good performance sweet spot and thats what i was trying to gauge. like in dac to choose between bartok ,rossini ,vivaldi i chose rossini. my 860A v2 is ordered and on its way. iam trying to figure out what would be the best segment appropriate preamp or the performance sweet spot or do i not need the pre-amp at all |
WC, artesania seem to have have good full size and adjustable racks where you can get a full rack instead of getting a separate amp stand.that would save you money and also give a consistent level playing field for all your components in the signal chain. their pricing is not as crazy or high as critical mass systems or silent running audio or HRS rack plus isolation base combo |
I am in the dynamic and revealing camp favoring details and resolution. many of the musical instruments do NOT sound inherently and naturally sweet at all. and i think making it sound sweet for non fatiguing reasons goes against the grain of the music that the artist created . similarly for the warmth and lushness which are not natural at all. thats why it's very important for an amplifier to be neutral. |
@techno__dude also luxman has a sweet sound and as preamp does play a role in sound signature who knows c900u and 860Av2 may be a bad idea and may be 860Av2 would start sounding sweeter and not as dynamic then. also its hard to say c900u and 740p are in the same level or not.they are priced in the same segment although 740p is a dual mono design where as c900 is not. to add one scenario, also soundstage when they did a review of m900u had tested with 740p along with c900u had said it was equally good. also 740p can be massively upgraded by a separate power supply 820S which c900u cannot even dream of as it has no such upgrade path. |
860A V2 is a power house compared to luxman. other than the pretty build quality of luxman, its not an even comparison Luxman M-900U Power (8/4ohms) : 150/300w Gain : 29 dB Power Supply Capacitance uF : 100,000 Transformer : One 1.2 KVA SimAudio Power (8/4ohms) : 225/450w Gain : 31 dB Power Supply Capacitance uF : 240,000 Transformer : Two of 1.2 KVA simaudio is a dual mono design and has plenty of current reserve to drive demanding loads look at the transformer and capacitance both of them are double/twice in simaudio 860A V2. IMO its a no contest, other than the fact if some one wants a sweet amplifier like luxman. also simaudio is not colored and extremely neutral which is a plus over sweet sounding luxman |
iam sure speakers like sasha daw will benefit from the extra power.also for many folks when monoblocks is not an option plus an extra power cable, having good powerful single power amp is more practical and viable option than using monoblocks which would require 20A circuits or dedicated power outlet.you can still run 860A V2 out of a 15A socket. |
@whitecamaross WC - great step and initiative for you to get into developing a coherent ranking system for amps. appreciate your time, effort and thinking towards this. do you have any thoughts on using diff preamps with 860A V2. last time i heard d’agustino preamp power amp combo the overall output was still warm and slightly sweet. are you saying connecting d’agustino pre amp with 860A v2 still gives a dynamic output? |
@whitecamaross WC looking forward to it. if possible can you pick & make more price and segment appropriate comparison. momentum HD preamp is 40k. can you a pick a preamp in the 9 to 20k USD to mate with simaudio 860A2 |
@viber6 i fully agree with you. tuby sound will not have extended HF, it might be warm or soft or rolled off or even smooth in many cases. i like the use of word sparkle which means crisp highs. iam tired of reviewers mentioning highs are sweet or smooth. only in a few cases sweet or smooth means of lack of grainyness or harshness. there are many instruments which can be naturally sharp or grainy . similarly for this warm or warmth.many times music might not be even warm. it's like, instead of running behind natural timber of every instrument in a particular frequency the audio reviewers are going after making or altering music to be warm or sweet or smooth when it is not the case at all many times. i have listened to ayre amps and it has a sweet presentation of HF which means not as crisp. |
WC, great video and you described all pro's and cons of each amplifier very well. i agree with you on almost all of them but one. I agree with your comparisons about sweetness, dynamics , neutrality etc. but i beg to differ on your description calling one amp musical and not the other. what exactly musical is? true to source, true to timber.? defining musicality and the term musical can be very wide open and subjective as well. |
@sequence56 the problem is not that CMS footers take time.the problem is lack of explanation around it.even more worse that the designer instead of understanding and explaining characteristics authoritatively,is just relying on trial and error of his customers that for 2 weeks for one component , 3 week for other and for relentless it took 4 weeks. pretty pathetic IMO for such high priced footers. |
@viber6 yes i agree with you. alexia has slightly better specs than sasha and even yvette has 10 inch bass driver. since WC said alexia digs in way deeper, it would have been great if there was a chance to check daw with mephisto to see if the increased bass is out of the merit of mephisto or alexia. or if mephisto when mated with sasha daw can also dig way deeper as well or not. |
@techno__dude nobody is being a cheerleader here and most of them share their thoughts honestly and frankly. neither did anybody say that great specs always result in great sound. but bad specs and bad engineering never result in good sound for sure. may be you can be happy with the distortion of many tubes and the subjectivity of your perception and hearing but not everyone is like that. one thing is for sure that it takes phenomenal engineering to make an amp monostable and beyond that at half ohm.its not everybody's cup of tea to event attempt at designing and manufacturing such amps. so its always a combination of good specs, good engineering and final parameter which is hearing and trusting our own ears. |
@whitecamaross WC/Jay, You had earlier commented that the bass in alexia is way better and digs in a lot deeper compared to sasha daw. are you sure it is due to the speaker and not due to amp mephisto. because you did not a get chance to try DAW with mephisto, right? although specs dont fully matter, but if you look at the low frequency response of sasha daw its 20hz and alexia is just 1hz better and its 19hz. which makes me wonder how if bass performance for sasha daw and alexia should not be night and day difference but a small incremental difference. can you clarify your thoughts on this aspect. |
