From Nordost website. DIRECTIONALITY Are Nordost cables directional? Yes, Nordost cables are directional. This is especially true for single ended (RCA) interconnects as the shield is connected at the source or output end only. Which way do directional arrows point on Nordost cables? The directional arrows always point away from the source. For example, from a CD player to an amplifier, the arrows should point towards the preamplifier or power amplifier. On a speaker cable the arrows would always point towards the loudspeaker How can cables be directional? When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality.
Although the cable signal is an alternating current, small impurities in the conductor act as diodes allowing signal flow to be better in one direction over time. This effect is also called quantum tunneling, which has been observed in experiments over 25 years ago. Regardless of the purity of the metal used, there are still diode effects in all conductors. In addition, the insulation material will change when it is subjected to an electrical field. |
@WCSS
I can't figure out why you would upgrade your power cords from O1 to O2 before getting O1 interconnects. For me in my system the most important cable (that made the biggest improvement in SQ) was power cords followed by interconnects then speaker cables....jumper cables and USB were not too far behind speaker cables. I understand the desire to mix cable brands (for tuning purposes) but since you are so taken with Nordost (as I am) why not try a full loom? |
@riaa
How many amps do you own again? lol
I have a Sim 870a now and really love it. I had a BAT VK 500 (dark) for years and really liked it too. Before the Sim I had a Plinius. My speakers are YG's which I thought a sweet amp like the Lux might sound good with. After a lot of talking with Jay he thinks all of those amps would sound great in my system (Sim, Lux and Gryphon). I guess I'd like to try something different for a change. I've had the Sim for 4 years.
With the dozens of amps you own you must have a mix of flavors....I know you hate bass but what's your preference?
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@WCSS,
Glad you moved up to a more suitable front end (Aurender N10) for your system. It's amazing what a quality streamer/server can do to the overall sound of ones system.
Sooo about 2 weeks ago I posted a question to you asking why in the world you would upgrade from Nordost Odin1 power cords to Odin 2 power cords before adding Odin1 interconnects to your system. Your response was because you thought O1 was a little too bright and would add too much silver to your system......Have your thoughts changed?
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Longhorn and Outback....Oh my, you do have expensive taste. I see now why this thread might not be your cup of tea.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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It amazes me that some people don't understand the difference between constructive criticism and constant criticism.
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@Techno__dude
I personally apologize for all of the horrible things I've thought about you lately.
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Very impressed with the Merrill set up, very transparent and detailed. The D'Agostino set up sounded fuller and more like live music. I think a warm tube preamp would help the Merrill monos, where all Odin1 IC's (instead of Valhalla2) would help the D'Agostino pair. I do understand the cost difference.....Still waiting for viber's review of the Merrill gear he heard in his home.
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@WCSS
I think the video and sound quality of the clips you posted is good enough. You've spent enough money on the gear you play with...no need to post a SOTA video. No way you will get close to the sound you hear in your room listening to a video through a computer the way most of us do....The videos are a fantastic addition to your thread and get us closer to your thoughts on gear we would never see/hear on our own. I would never buy a component based on listening to it on a youtube video, however your written and video review and personal thoughts get us closer than anything out there short of an in-home-demo. Listening to gear at a dealer for me is helpful but can also be a mixed bag.
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@WCSS
Over the last 3 months I have purchased 2 power cords...same brand, different models. They each sound different. One is warmer and fuller, the other one more neutral. Over the last month I have tried every combo in my system with these 2 new PC's, each way I try yields a different tonal balance along with +'s and -'s in other areas. I have finally decided on a placement I think sounds best for my system, room and listening tastes......With you changing out speakers, amps, preamps, DAC's and cables I can't imagine the tuning process you must have to go through every month. Having 2 sets of cables (one warmer the other less warm) sounds like an important tool for someone who reviews so many products....an expensive tool but a necessary one.
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@WCSS
Hey wait....what about Simaudio? So Simaudio and women right? |
Yes Jay...in other words quit your day job and spend more time extracting as much info on each piece of equipment you review. You need to buy at least 3-4 different stands, SR black, blue and orange fuses, Stillpoints, Critical Mass and IsoAcoustics footers. Also you definitely need 3 different complete sets of cables. Mix and match every combo of components you have on hand at the time. It's important to us that you do this thing RIGHT! And for God's sake use the same power cords on the amps and preamps you are A/B'ing....even though you know Nordost and Audioquest PC's didn't sound right on the Dag gear so you used Transparent to get the most out of it. It doesn't matter....BE CONSISTENT!
Seriously though...I am happy with the way you have chosen to share your time with us. No need to get anal about everything...leave that to us.
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Just my gut feeling, but based on t_d's continual misuse of punctuation, misspelled words, poor grammar and constant whining....not so sure we're dealing with an adult here.
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@ mrdecibel
Didn't you just say "I am no longer responding to techno's posts, and suggested, everyone do the same."
@WCSS
As far as Cardas power cords vs stock....In my system power cords (over IC's and SC's) make the biggest improvement in sound and also influence everything else. As much as I hate to say it, I think you have to use stock PC's. If you have IC's and SC's in both or all three brands of cables then that seems like the way to go. Also didn't you say when using the Nordost cables with the Constellation gear " My initial impressions were that they did have SYNERGY but as I sat and listened for hours ... I began to disconnect from the presentation." meaning the Nordost cables were not a great match with the Constellation gear?
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@dguitarnut
It just breaks my heart that your interest in this thread is dwindling. Your lack of patience is also troubling....When it comes to "experts chiming in after listening through their iPads or iPhones and making earth shattering proclamations". All I have to say to that is 'grain of salt'. Sure hope you find a thread that better suits your needs. Take care
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@WCSS
When you inferred that Nordost cables were not quite a match with the Constellation gear and then later said "Yes I did say that. However, since that moment, I have added cardas PCs on the Monos and that really helped a lot."
That kind of tells me that the Constellation amps need help to be more neutral. I have not had the pleasure of trying the Cardas PC's in my system but have heard that they tend to add warmth and to be more laid back.....If that is what it takes to get the amps more neutral sounding then I can see you going that way.
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@WCSS
No I have not tried Odin2. From what I've heard from you and others.....I'm afraid to. I got a price on an O2 PC and decided to stick with O1 for a while. Why don't you send me yours to test?
@chazzzy007
I had Tyr2 speaker cables for quite a while before moving up to Val2. If you like what the Tyr2's do in your system you will love the Val2's.
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"I doubt anybody here can ear the difference in a blind shootout between the two."
I can 'ear' the difference. I have (3) Odin1 PC's and (1) Valhalla2 PC in my system. I have the Val2 PC placed on the component that is the least affected by power cords. I place the Odin1 PC's on the components that are most affected by an upgraded PC. The difference is very noticeable. The O1 PC's are more detailed, have more weight (tighter, deeper bass) and a much better holographic soundstage. The Val2 PC is fuller (warmer) sounding and slightly veiled sounding (only when compared to the Odin1).
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I also bought my amp (Simaudio 870a) based on WCSS's review of the Sim 860a. I absolutely love it and can't imagine selling it.....what a resource!
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I think the vocals sound better, smoother and without edge with the tweeters on the outside...however the upper register of the piano sounds defused this way. Ultimately I would set the tweeters on the inside and possibly move the speakers a little wider.
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On my Mac laptop both cables sounded good although I was not familiar with the music. To me the Odin1 sounded more spacious, detailed and the reverberation time and decay seemed to go on forever (which I believe was the recording engineers intent). The Audiomica cables did sound fuller but less detailed and spacious....Listening to these cables back to back sounded like the Nordost Val2 vs Odin1 in my system. The Val2 sounded fuller (in the upper bass and lower midrange) than the Odin1. The O1 was more neutral with more weight (deeper bass), more spacious, detailed and much better holographic soundstage.
I think a more 'straight up' recording without all of the added reverb and artificial effects would be a better piece of music to compare these cables. Vocals, Bass, guitar or piano and drums without added effects....or a small live acoustic jazz trio. To be able to hear how quick a stand-up bass or kick drum decays is important to me...less smearing, clear details etc...
Hearing the presentation at your house might yield different results. That's the best I could do through a laptop. Thank you for sharing with us.
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Jay, I find it so funny.....it seems that on every shootout or A/B of a component or speaker you do, there is a 50/50 split from the viewers / listeners. I wonder if it would still be that way if we were able to come to your home and listen live?
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@WCSS
"Exciting new component".....hey wait a minute. Several of us participated in your 'cable shootout' and gave our opinions on what we heard (through our computers etc...). I have a funny feeling that you didn't come to the same conclusion we did. Of course we understand we didn't get the full impact of being in your room and hearing what the two cable systems can really do....but we gave it our best shot. Were you planning on telling us what you heard and which cable (you thought) was a better match for your current setup? Pluses and minuses of the two cables brands interacting with your room, components and speakers?
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As far as detail and clarity I didn't think it was close. The Ref6 / Merrill combo was much more clear. The Parasound JC1 sounded veiled by comparison....that's over my laptop, not being able to hear bass, soundstage etc...I'm not sure which one I would prefer in person.
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@thieliste
Very interested in your statement..... "I can tell you Mephisto is end game amp, it makes the Essence line sound like broken lol."
I have been considering the Gryphon Essence stereo amp along with the Simaudio 860a v2 and the Luxman 900U as my next amp. The Mephisto is out of my range.
Did you hear the Mephisto and the Essence on the same day, same equipment, same room?
Would love to hear you clarify your statement. Thx
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Jay, I'm not worried about power ratings (after our talk a couple of days ago). I asked if you had heard any comparisons between the Essence and the now discontinued Colosseum. |
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Not here to debate cost ratios of cables to a system but once you've heard what your components are truly capable of sounding like by using top tier cables it's hard to go back. I have heard two dealers use Odin1 cables on Wilson DAW speakers....I guess it was because they wanted every component and the speakers to sound their absolute best.
So it all comes down to personal preference and what you are willing to spend. If you have 40k speakers and want to use zip cord well that's ok......wait that's not ok, bad example. So if you have a 150k system (without cables) and want to get the most out of it and spend 50k on cables and have the $...I know a lot of guys that have gone that route and would never trade down on cables.
BTW Nordost Odin1 has been discontinued for around 2 years. Some dealers are offering 55-65% off of retail which makes it an easier nut to crack. I'm sure the OP is getting at least that deal on Nordost....definitely not on Wilson, Gryphon, Simaudio, dCS etc....
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@guyl
I understand your point, however I never mentioned price of a component. I said "At the Mephisto's level", meaning the level of clarity, resolution, definition etc.... The more information the amp delivers to the speakers the more one would need to carefully match components, cables and speakers. In my experience an amp that produces less clarity, resolution and definition is easier to integrate into a system....it would still need to be tweaked but I don't think it would require the time and patience that a highly resolving amp would....YMMV
The OP has owned hundreds of amps but to my knowledge none have been as revealing as the Mephisto....thus making it more of a challenge to create system synergy.....according to the OP. Of the 4 or so years the OP has been reviewing amps (at all price points) I believe the Mephisto has been the most challenging...so far.
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"The Mephisto is the only amp on this thread to impress me, although of course only based on the YT videos and WC's comments. Most of the other amps listed are euphonic expensive boat anchors, whose sound has been well described by WC. I can only speculate (without personal experience) that the Gryphon Essence and Sim 860 V2 have the sound quality I might like."
So viber out of the all of the amps the OP has reviewed (possibly 75+ amps) there's only 1 amp that's impressed you and 2 more that you MIGHT like. Man I think you're either too picky, or on the wrong thread.....or both.
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viber,
Picky is good....but to say that out of almost 100 amps reviewed on this thread only one has impressed you. I think you need to loosen your belt a little.
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@WCSS
Can you please buy the 4 MLB amps and the Essence and compare them to the Mephisto in your own room?
Thank you in advance |
lol Dave....I was just poking fun at some of the requests the OP gets on this thread.
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@viber
While we appreciate your passion for music and music reproduction, there seems to be a fine line between passion and preaching with you.
You seem to have taken over this thread again. |
@viber
Your constant nitpicking is disrespectful.
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I just don't get the few posters that seem to be obsessed with discrediting the OP. It's obvious he works very hard to keep up the thread and the YouTube channel. I believe Jay has been nothing but honest with everything he reviews....he doesn't like everything. If you think he's making a lot of money buying and selling amps or working through a dealer to promote gear for the dealer, then take what he has to say with a grain of salt....or better yet don't participate in the thread or video channel.....simple as that. I've been an active participant in this thread almost since the beginning. I find it very entertaining, informative and yet another way to stay connected to music reproduction. I have also made a handful of really good friends from this thread. Techno, you seem to have made it your goal to badger and discredit the OP. Why waste your precious time on this thread? grey9hound, not happy either? A www....I don't think he's doing this out of the kindness of his heart, I think he's obsessed with audio gear and music. |
I don't think he was justifying.....I think he was clarifying.
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Jay,
It sounds like you prefer the Gryphon VIP XLR IC's over Valhalla2 and Odin1 speaker cables over the VIP speaker cables for your current set up. What were the differences between the two speaker cables?
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Dave
This has been going on a long time. I believe there's a fine line between occasionally mentioning the OP try a new component or speaker or offering advice on a component he's personally familiar with...and...constantly telling him and others what they should do or hear or what the OP should try or buy next. As far as 'working with him', the OP has repeatedly had to tell him to back off and that if he doesn't like the way it's being done to kindly find or start another thread. It's unfortunate that a few posters have gotten rough and said things they shouldn't have but I think that was done out of frustration. The OP has had to continually remind him that it's his thread and he will do it the way he wants. I don't have ill feelings toward viber but I do think if he posted less and stopped pushing his views on everybody he would be way more respected on this thread.....there, that's me working with him.
WCSS
I think a part time consulting gig is a great idea. I have benefited many times from your advice and trial and error method. You helped me decide on my last 2 amps and were spot on with your recommendations. Getting advice from an experienced hands on audiophile without an agenda makes total sense.
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The last two videos sound very detailed and spacious but for me they lack body, warmth and richness. Going straight from dac to amp, specifically the Mephisto as good as it is, might be too much of a good thing.....not sure power cords or cables would be able to improve things. The D Agostino HD Preamp with the Mephisto and the VIP / Dragon HC cables into the Maggies I believe would be much better. I do realize the cost ratio of components and cables to speakers is ridiculous, just talking about tonal balance.
Trying to get REO Speedwagon to sound good on a high end 2 channel system is really tough, especially with the Mephisto. Classical music audiophiles have it so much easier than rock / pop audiophiles do. There are so many rock / pop / R&B tunes I would rather listen to in my car than on my system at home.....too bad.
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@grey9hound
I know you asked techno the question but thought I'd chime in. I have the Mola Mola Makua preamp with the optional DAC installed and really love it....One less PC and pair of IC's. |
Looking at the before and after room measurements of the ML 13a I see that the auto EQ attenuates AND boosts the peaks and dips. After speaking with several audio (EQ) specialists and also personal experience I have found that using EQ sparingly along with room treatments work best and sound more natural to me. I only EQ bass @ 200hz and below and only attenuate and never boost. Boosting a frequency always sounds unnatural and I hear an added pressure sensation at that frequency. As far as transparent EQ systems, I have found Roon's digital EQ extremely transparent. I only attenuate at 40hz by 7 db with a Q setting of 2. Switching back and forth (engaged and disengaged) reveals no loss of transparency and no ill effects to the upper registers.
As far as which speaker to keep....I think the Maggies sound better but are limited, so I would keep the ML's. To have a full range affordable speaker sounds like a better choice for future evaluations.
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It's unfortunate that a few supposedly loyal followers of this thread seem to be just waiting for a moment to jump in and call out or question the decisions or path of the OP. I think a lot of that has to do with the gear these 'loyal followers' own. If the OP doesn't think much of said gear it puts the 'loyal followers' in an aggressive defensive mode lashing out against the OP and HIS choices of gear. This thread is definitely more about gear than music...always has been. There are many threads devoted towards music that would be better suited to some posters here. I find it odd that the more expensive the piece being reviewed here the more offended and combative some posters get. This thread is definitely not for everybody...no thread is. Maybe it's time for a few unhappy followers to realize it's time to look for a more suitable thread to follow.
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OK...so you're here to learn the truth about overpriced gear but you seem to disagree with almost everything the OP does and says. So again, why are you still here?
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From the beginning this thread has been more about equipment than music. Automotive gear heads spend more time tinkering and working on their cars than driving them but cars are about driving...right?
grey9hound, with all due respect, I don't think you get this thread.
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techno, this thread sounds like it rubs you the wrong way...why do you stay? |
techno...yeah I think you missed the point. I don't think this thread is about trying 'ultra high end gear'...I think it's about trying all kinds of gear. 2 out of the 3 speakers the OP currently owns are mid level speakers. The Luxman, Simaudio, Parasound, McIntosh etc...are not 'ultra high end gear'. I think nothing pleases the OP more than to find a mid priced component that punches way above its weight class. As the OP stated, he bought the McIntosh integrated amp to have some fun with and to see how well it played with the Wilsons and to give people a chance at an unusual pairing. I thought it sounded good with the Wilsons. Nothing like the Mephisto but very good for a 4k integrated. To keep the party going I'm assuming it needed to be sold right away to help pay for the next piece of equipment....he can't keep everything for long and constantly have components coming in. Instead of being thankful for the opportunity to hear the little Mc, people are critical...I just don't get it.
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WCSS
I don't find the Odin1 cables bright or anemic in the bass in my Simaudio / YG system, but I also don't listen at the volume level you listen. Without ever having the pleasure of hearing the Mephisto in person I do hear an extremely detailed presentation on your videos. I can sure see why Odin1 and the Mephisto would not be a good match. I'm just guessing that if I placed the Gryphon VIP cables in my system I would not like them as much as I do the Odin1's. My statement regarding the Dragon HC PC vs the Odin1 PC is based on the last 2 weeks of me demoing your Dragon HC PC in my system. I very much enjoyed my time with the Dragon HC PC. I placed it in every possible combination I could to thoroughly understand the sound signature of it vs my Odin1 PC's. I found the Dragon to be more forgiving of poor recordings and not quite as detailed as Odin1. In my system it rolled off the high frequencies and slightly elevated the bottom end.
You learning which cables to pair with the Mephisto is resulting in a better overall listening experience. I can't wait to hear the Pandora preamp. Thank you again for letting me demo your Dragon HC PC in my system.
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