Luxman L-590AXii actually only rated at 30W class A, 8 ohm. Really conservative, and still drove your DAWs easily. Just a correction that Lux rated 30W, not 50W as mentioned in video.
Maybe this Accuphase bumps the ARC M160’s off the bottom-5 list, haha?
Awesome video by the way. Really cool that you call the balls and strikes as you see them regarding the Accuphase. Pretty awesome.
To those in past who complained that WC only mentions a product flaws after he sells it, this video is a good counterexample.
To those in past who also said once something is already sold that his opinion changes, this also a counterexample -- he praised the Luxman L-590axii when he had it (named it top 3 all time for money and best thing under $12k in response to my question, int or separate that he’s owned) but he is praising it even more in this video, even though it is already sold. We get more detail regarding WC’s opinion on the Lux 590 in this video than we did even in the one video where WC really talked about it previously. Much appreciated. |
I hope it doesn’t bite you and it shouldn’t, because people should understand that it is just your opinion, and everything is so subjective.
There are probably Accuphase fans who will salivate at getting the chance to get this at a good price.
As is extremely clear by the feedback people post, everyone has different tastes. Some of our tastes align with yours (I’m lucky because you and I seem to like the same things, so your reviews are really on point for me), but others prefer different aspects (Viber is an example - he has strong feelings as to what he likes which is fine, just different from yours).
But the great thing is that for people who have followed you in the thread and now on the videos, they can determine for themselves where they personally stand with preferences relative to you (e.g., if their preferences for sound quality are different from yours), and still get great information from your reviews by just making their personal correction to implement their own preferences onto yours and still get extremely meaningful info relevant to future purchases.
The most important thing is that you remain consistent, calling the balls and strikes as you see them.
It’s like an umpire in baseball. As long as the umpire keeps the strike zone the same all the time, even if one would quibble around the margins as to whether the strike zone would align perfectly with one’s own version of the strike zone, that is all that can be asked for from the umpire. Consistency. And I think that is what we get from your content, IMO.
Everyone has preferences, that is unavoidable. You are transparent with yours (even mentioning some of them in this video - soundstage, bass, sufficient to drive to high volumes unimpeded, etc.) and that really even can further lay out for people what to expect from you and let them know, if they need to, how to take your comments and adjust them to fit their preferences if their preferences differ from yours. |
WC showed the treble setting in the Accuphase video and it was neutral |
Yeah we joke around but it’s all in fun.
viber, will you be upgrading your Mytek to the new Mytek release that ricevs mentioned that is due out soon, and what about all the musical information that is lost on a first row seat in a staged venue???
There you go I’m teeing it right up for you to go on about why first row seat is the best. I say much info is lost there because it passes over the listeners head
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#3 best, all-rounder
#2 second best, but too forward sounding for me
#1 last, kinda dull tho not horrible |
Ah, nice. I stand corrected! Glad to hear it. They did sound good in the one vid you played.
Are we supposed to guess on the new speakers? I guess Kef Blade 2 |
Regarding video segmenting, I think the two videos per episode makes sense for the monetizing reason.
But as to the non- music video, I think you should also bifurcate that into two parts. Use one of the two parts (suggest first) to clean up any loose ends from prior videos, like naming what stuff was and what your impressions were that you had promised. For example, we are two are three videos on from the blind Audience Front Row vs Valhalla and you still haven’t even told us which was which or given thoughts. That’s kinda frustrating and should be done at beginning of each subsequent video.
Then for second part of non-music video tee up what is coming in that episodes shootout, talk about changes to system, other things on your mind, etc.
That would be an improved format I submit, just to have reliable way to give closure to previous video |
What makes you think the Merrill pair is still around? We haven’t seen it on video in 2-3 weeks, despite now-open stands since Pass INT and Accuphase and Sim left. Plus numerous pleas from you to bring it back for more video time have been ignored by WC.
I can’t remember even one time where WC featured an amp or preamp on a video, then completely removed it from the on-camera area, and then brought the same amp (not repurchased) back weeks later.
Probably was a one-and-done without much staying power, though he did say it was best of class D which counts for something although he hasn't typically gone for D amps too much ... |
I am going to guess Esoteric S-02 |
The only thing he keeps forever is Wilson, in one form or another : )
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Thx. Yeah the Wilson comment was tongue in cheek.
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WC,
How many 20A lines do have into your room? Just one, or more? Do you run everything off 20A lines or do you have lower power stuff off 15A lines?
Also, what type of wall outlets do you use?
Probably at time you built room you discussed in thread but at that time I probably glossed right over it. Thx |
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That was fun. I like the category concept and the idea of scoring.
A couple of suggestions: with separate categories for each of resolution, clarity and detail, it may be that these similar or arguably overlapping categories are overweighted.
I can think of a couple that would be interesting. Maybe it’s encompassed by what you already have but what about straight up treble performance? How good does the amp gets the highs? You have a category for bass but not explicitly for highs (although I suppose could be argued detail or clarity or resolution might cover).
Another idea: low volume level performance. Lots of amps sound good when loud but lose their bearings at low volumes.
Anyway, just my thoughts. The low volume I suspect probably not too important to you based on your like it loud preference you’ve mentioned especially in this thread.
Disregard at will if you like. Videos Enjoyable as always. |
Which is exactly why keeping the sweetness category makes sense. Definitely keep that.
A clear indication that the current categories may be too heavily weighted away from sweet sounding amps is by considering how 2/3 WC’s all time best amps per $$ (see one of his videos in 20’s- meaning his 20th or 21st video or whichever it was where he anointed ) are Luxman 590AXii and m900 amps.
Since WC himself rates these so highly (top 3 of 300 for the $$), clearly when he is ranking them they should score very highly (after all, he rated them top 3).
But I wonder how highly they’d score with these categories (maybe WC will tell us), and if they do not score really highly in this overweighted resolution/clarity/detail dominated test, then something must be wrong with the test categories.
That fleshes out more of my initially stated concern with the categories. We already know his top 3 of 300 for $$ - he told us. Some new arbitrary test wouldn’t change that. At minimum any test where WC scoring those three needs to score them very highly for test to be valid (with WC ranking them of course - if another ranking then things would be different bc anyone else may not have those as top 3 of 300 for the $$, but WC does so any valid ranking test he administers should have categories that correspondingly result in commensurate scores for his favorite amps.
(Yes I know he didn’t say those were 3 best he ever had, only for the $$. But we are talking 300 total, per his estimate, so that is top 1% for the $$) |
It is too bad that the Stellas did not have a longer run. We got several videos but would have been nice to see such an expensive speaker a bit longer. I honestly have no recollection of WC’s previous time with Magico.
So yeah WC if you expect time with Magico to be short make sure to record a bunch of videos. It's a brand that's much harder to find in dealers compared to Wilson or Focal (at least in the midwest) so the Magico videos will be extremely helpful for those without access to hear in person. |
WC,
You’ve mused recently about feeling unsure about which direction to go with the channel as you’ve said you are having a hard time finding amplifiers that are interesting to you moving up higher from current position.
Well, here is an idea that will cause your # of subscribers to explode (I predict to over 15k or 20k, from the current less than 4k, and will also cause huge new views of old videos and set you up to really take off.
Why do I say that? Well the three things that will really drive subscriptions and active following are: 1) reviewing things that are interesting to people not just for theoretical reasons, but which are actually within the realistic wheelhouse of many more than that of current crop of gear reviewed on channel; 2) creating a competition; and 3) inviting active participation. This will do all of that.
Ok, great, that gets people interested, but why would it be interesting to you? Well, this idea will give you a solid 3 months worth of content possibilities, as I will lay out. Also, it will allow easy parrallels to be drawn by you to past videos and invite people to go listen to them (driving viewership), and it will relate to the reference equipment you currently have (Boulder, Alexx, etc.). And it will be something that nobody has ever done before, not at this level (I’m assuming - not a YT audio expert so I could be wrong).
You can thank me by sending me the crappiest loom of cables you have in the corner that you don’t want any more. Haha, jk.
So what is it? First, all you will need to do to free up the funds to do this is sell Gryphon Mephisto and Pandora, as their combined msrp should exceed the msrp of everything I mention (assuming you can get used versions of everything so that the costs will roughly balance, give or take a rounding error which in your world is low five figures, probably, ha, meant as a compliment).
Okay, what I’m envisioning is something that pits top integrated amps from many of the same companies that serve as gateways to the hi-end separates that are your passion. You’ve had some of these previously (providing opportunities to link to old videos), and some will be new but you have had their pricier bretheren (again, opportunity to link to old videos).
So, announcing: WC’s 7-way "Survivor" style integrated amplifier shootout, where WC will get 50% say of who stays and who goes, and the YT subscribers (via polls on YT channel - again, opportunity for growth) vote to decide based on head to head competitions who stays and who goes, until the list narrows down to the winner. That 50% number picked arbitrarily so that you retain a big say in outcome (as you are only one in room), yet give subscribers a huge say as well. Alter according to preference if appropriate.
The contenders:
Boulder 866
Luxman L590AXii
Constellation Inspirion 1.0
Gryphon Diablo 120
Esoteric F-03A
Luxman L509X
Pass Labs INT250
Basically a shootout of top integrated amps in the $9-15k price range, which are much more realistic to acquire for many audiophiles as compared to your reference gear, but will serve as gateways to eventually acquiring gear like you have now.
This is still different than anything anyone has done before, so you will still be breaking new ground. But you’ll be doing it in a way that will attract more people and if you execute it well they will stay with you and grow into all the old videos (growth opportunity for views) and anticipate when you get back to reference quality reviews.
You could pit the speakers head-to-head one on one, or play all 7 and ask to vote off the weakest. Lots of ways it could be handled. But each round could play out over a week or so, maybe two weeks.
So what speakers to use? Well, Alexx is probably not the best choice, but good to have also to try them with, to see which can handle the difficult load. But the obvious choice to use as the workhorse speakers with these integrateds willl be the Sasha DAW. Why? Well you already know the least expensive L590AXii drives that speaker well (you told us), so the others should be able to as well. And, it will open up comparison possibilities with Alexx (that’s a whole string of content), and open up look-back opportunities for all the old DAW videos (again, pushing up views). I think you could get the DAW and all 7 integrateds for close to what Mephisto and Pandora would net, again, give or take.
There are just so many possibilities that you could do with all of this. If you wanted to make it 10 integrateds for round numbers, maybe add D’Ag integrated, Diablo 300 (though both more expensive than the $15k cutoff), or Simaudio or Rowland or Hegel 590 or .....
Admittedly, this would be driven not necessarily by what is most interesting to you (I’m sure this isn’t as high on your list as 2160 vs Mephisto), but it would have explosive interest among audiophiles who already subscribe and many more who haven’t yet. It would be for brand and channel building, primarily.
Anyway, give it some thought...... Conceived of it driving in to work today. No worries if it is too big an undertaking for you to go down, as it for sure would be a lot to tackle
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don't forget the $2k hybrid integrated amp McIntosh video |
I get why you do it but it’s kinda annoying. But if it drives subscriptions fine. Just not gonna put too much extra thought into it at this point |
What I meant was that they were vastly inferior in producing music versus the other speakers, in my opinion
Even at $650, I would not buy them. I have $600 Kef q150 as backups in my third system and think they sound much better, inasmuch as I’m able to compare them having owned or seriously demo’d both, albeit in different systems, but even in that store system under same conditions I judged LRS decidedly 4th of 4, as mentioned. Ymmv |
A new audio research box in the video preview, cool! |
Haha, well I don't think anyone who has followed this from the beginning would be surprised by any moves. Turning the ship on a dime is kinda the norm in this journey, even if you've previously made contrary statements about what your plans are with currently owned gear (e.g., with the 3.7i). Wouldn't even be possible to count all the times you've indicated you would keep things for awhile and then they are gone. ARC Ref 6 to burn in for at least 500 hrs and then do shootouts just one recent example; Pass 250 another.
You do your little experiments and then move on. : )
Entertaining all the while, even if we sometimes wish you'd go deeper with certain items.
Wilson Alexx would be cool; I've been pushing for that for awhile??? It's been a long time since you've been able to live without at least one Wilson Audio speaker (close to a year probably between DAW and Alexia? timing runs together I guess - what seems like an eternity on this thread is probably only a few months).
Or maybe you are looking at D'Agostino big boys if you are going to sell the stereo amp but keep the preamp?? |
No I meant the BIG boys - relentless, but probably not available on good deal (hell, I wouldn't know, that's for sure!). way out of my league |
Congrats WC, and thanks as others have said.
Very interesting shootout. I thought the amps sounded completely different. To my ears and with a song I’ve heard thousands of times, the timbre of the Gryphon sounded perfect, but the timbre of the Dag sounded all messed up. Not sure how to describe, but maybe “thin” is best term I can come up with. Like ordering a big juicy half pound burger at your favorite burger joint and what shows up at the table is a little quarter pounder. Haha. Hey, that ain’t what I was expecting!!
In any event, the Dag just sounded kinda unnatural on that tune. Maybe it’s my unideal playback setup, but that’s what I hear.
eww, I saw the Klipsch guess on YT and your response. I predict you’ll hate them but I hope I’m wrong |
Bass guitar through the Dag has no stones. Sounds neutered. Gryphon sounds powerful and full.
On this song anyway. On other stuff I’ve thought the Dag sounded fine.
I don’t think there’s ever been something played where I didn’t love the Gryphon or the Luxman 900’s when you had it.
For the record, my favorite shootout song that WC has played is the Ella Vos song. That had everything. |
Not true at all Mr. V. You are way over simplifying and losing forest for the trees.
Sound quality overall. Not some subcategory of sound quality (like clarity or any other) to rule all.
I’d pick Luxman and Gryphon as top two with Gryphon probably first of all those WC has demo’d on videos (subject to playback limitations caveats we’ve discussed a thousand times). They’re in opposite buckets according to WC but who tf cares - they sound the best! Forget the subcategories! |
Clarity is worthless if the amp cannot produce the entire sound spectrum of the song, as the Dag was unable to do on Sultans of Swing for whatever reason.
You are of course free to prefer that neutered sound, but most won’t. The comments here, including WC’s, and on YT bear that out. At least on this song which is all we are talking about. As I said, I liked Dag well enough on some other songs - I don’t think it’s a bad amp. Just not as good as others he’s had
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Well we can agree to disagree.
You think the Dag sounded better on yesterday’s Sultans of Swing song.
I and most others (see comments on YT) including WC think the Gryphon was much better. WC even speculates in today video that Dag inferior sound quality in the presentation you like so much may be due to a power cord mismatch in compatibility.
Even if the Dag has better clarity, which is arguable but you seem to think so, the Gryphon was still better, which summarily disproves your contention that clarity trumps all.
I won’t try to change your mind; just reciprocate and offer the same courtesy. |
I liked both but I’ll take Nordost over the Wireworld in this demo |
Anyone who listens OBJECTIVELY will reach same conclusion.
On blind video 1 I would have bet the farm that Number 2 was Merrill, and it was. The comments showed 99% picked it over Parasound.
Then on blind video #2 I was not expecting a close battle, but it was. Wasn’t expecting because I assumed you’d leave 118s in the mix. When you revealed then it all made sense.
Am I surprised that Dag and Parasound are competitive? Not really.
Am I surprised that Merrill destroys Dag in head to head as your dealer observed? Not at all. I’d be surprised if they didn’t.
Now when you unveil the new Gryphon it will lap the Merrill’s just like Colliseum did. |
haha, sorry Dave the Gryphon comment was to Viber, not you.
Viber had said WC doesn’t think the Gryphon a good value for money, or words to that effect, and then made some marginally-sensical deduction as to how that related to Sim audio. WC thinks Gryphon is top 3 all time bang for buck based on whole video dedicated to just that topic! (in contrast to 30 seconds of consideration on an overall review one of 10 categories) That was my point to Viber.
Sometimes I get ahead of myself. I tried to go back and make clear who I was responding to but time had expired.
Well I admit WC grade for Gryphon value in his review was a bit inconsistent with that earlier best all time bang for buck video. Anyway, I’ll let WC speak for himself I guess. |
Haha, only WC controls what he plays.
When he plays something popular, people complain. When he plays something obscure, people complain. So there is no way he pleases everyone with music choices
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V:
I just call ‘em as I hear them without being a slave to subcategories of sound quality, like clarity. Whichever on balance sounds the best will get my vote.
In that shootout the Dag sounded awful, IMO, in reproducing the bass guitar, as I noted that night. That is not how the song is supposed to sound based on strong familiarity, and therefore I judged it profoundly inferior. It was so lacking that it didn’t matter what the treble sounded like. FWIW WC said he agreed (if I recall) in the immediately following post.
On subcategories, I don’t care if my football team had fewer rushing yards or time of possession if they won the game. Like the score on a football scoreboard, overall sound quality on balance is what matters, not building blocks like rushing yards or clarity.
Myself, WC, and 80% of respondents (which in audio preference is near landslide) agreed on the Gryphon in that shootout - when I said previously “Gryphon was better” that’s what I mean: 80% judged it better. It may have been the most lopsided shootout based on results WC has done.
You and 20% preferred the Dagostino and that’s fine. Again, I am not attempting to change your assessment method (I couldn’t care less).
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I don’t know why I’m taking the bait once again, but last response from me and then let’s move on.
Clarity is important, yes, of course. Nobody will dispute that.
But it is not the end all. It is but one sub-component of sound quality. There are numerous others. They together make up sound quality (which everyone will admittedly judge differently).
Clarity may be nearly perfect, but if the timbre is off, as it was (IMO) in the Dag demo of Sultans and which I pointed out on this thread immediately, the overall sound quality (in that demo) is poor. The very incorrect timbre (IMO) was so notable that it overrode anything that clear sounding (bad timbre) clarity could attempt to salvage.
Were I not so familiar with the song I’d likely not have noticed. That’s why intense familiarity with music when critically reviewing is important. (no I’m not saying these fun little exercises WC gives us are critically reviewing, impossible given the playback restraints, but they are entertaining to listen to, insightful even given the limitations, and much appreciated) |
Easy to nitpick an analogy, but I guess we just agree to disagree. You certainly won’t bring me around to your minority view, and I have no interest in trying to change your mind. Cheers, |
No issues with the recording quality, that's not what I'm saying. (other than it is still just a YT vid and we aren't in the room like WC is and we use typically low quality reproduction methods to play it - but we've said that forever).
I thought the Gryphon sounded amazing. Just didn't like the timbre of the Dag.
Just my opinion. That's what I heard. Surely others will disagree - that's the nature of the hobby. Not claiming to be a super expert.
FWIW again, WC also acknowledged that the Dag sound was off and pointed to a power cord mismatch - so I know I'm not completely crazy (in addition to 80% or so of voters picking the Gryphon). It's an individual preference thing and nothing wrong with that.
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I’m hoping for Spendor but I think it’ll be Klipsch based on WC comments on YT last vid. I’ll guess Cornwall 4 to be extremely specific.
If Klipsch that will be very interesting.
Hard for me to see WC liking Klipsch sound based on his past preferences with speakers but that’s why it’ll be interesting if it happens.
Perhaps he will? But I doubt it. |
Whatever they are, not in same zip code of the DAWs. To be expected given cost difference I suppose, or at least not surprising.
Compared to DAW, sounded smaller and also more sluggish (not as agile). Just my opinion. |
I probably wasn’t clear and didn’t describe it well.
What I meant to say is the guitar string slides are really prominent in the Keith Don’t Go song (I said recording above but meant that to mean generally not just in this particular video of mystery speakers- can see why my statement was confusing when I reread it).
With the mystery speaker they don’t sound nearly as crisp vs the DAW, but that’s just one example.
Stated another way, they sound much more realistic on the DAW
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Well I am listening just on an iPhone at work. Haha, gimme a break!! I’ll give it a better listen when I have time.
Edit: ok here is what I mean. Listen to the fingers sliding over the guitar strings. They are really prominent in this recording. Now go listen to that same portion in vids where DAWs playing. Big difference - much crisper. Also when the lyrics start initially I sense a bit of sluggishness in the presentation.
The best part of the song (IMO) actually comes about 20 seconds after the video ends (unfortunately) and I wish WC would have let run a little longer because that riff that we just miss is really awesome with dynamic swings. Oh well...
Just my opinion though. WC asks us to tell him what we hear. I won’t fault anyone for disagreeing if you hear it differently. It’s all good |
Sure, makes sense. Didn’t expect it to compete but some here and on YT said best ever (which is fine if that’s really what they think) and I’m thinking, uh let’s not get carried away here - it’s fine but not close to DAW to my ears.
Will be interesting to hear it improve.
Might be fun if you list 5 options and let us guess what it is. |
Nah, the planars were a fun little side diversion and scratched an itch, but each time he replaces them with the DAWs it will be an "OMG I forgot how great these were" moment (like he recently commented on, even with just the Merrills, let alone Gryphon). The planars just have too many inherent deficiencies that are non-negotiable as anything more than a passing fancy if unwilling to add subs, as WC has indicated.
Plus it's onward and upward toward the illusive holy grail of speaker satisfaction, perhaps embodied by Alexx, Alexandria, or Chornosonic, which is where he's always been pulled in this sonic journey (he may or may not know it yet, but eventually he'll get there - haha).
Look to the massive turnover of equipment, yet one brand tends to always be there as he has grown in the journey at least in the past year, as he moves higher and higher up the mountain. Others come and go and maybe impress for a day or a week, but over the last year only one brand has had the staying power.
(of course now that I've pointed this out it'll probably cause WC to buck the trend just for the sake of it, LOL) |
Nah, my next target is a Luxman integrated (590axii, 509x, or 595ase) for the Spendors. When I eventually get to Sasha DAW hopefully down the road, then at that level maybe some better separates in the $25-30k ballpark but that'll be a six-figure system which isn't in the cards just yet
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Sorry, not feelin’ it.
They sound small, thin and muddy to me.
They performed worse on this song than the first, by a significant margin. Just my opinion of course |
I thought Merrill Audio 118’s were better than the Parasound JC1+ in most recent video. Didn’t think it was particularly close. So much better, that it almost sounded like the presentations were not level matched (not suggesting they weren’t, I’m sure you do those basic things, but that’s how much better the Merrills sounded is point I’m making).
Audio Research preamp sure seemed to help the 118’s. |
All the beryllium tweeters in the world won’t fix the bloated, flabby bass and lower midrange, I’m afraid |
I think after 50ish videos I’ve just really become a fan of the Wilsons (in addition to dozens of in person positive experiences with the brand).
So that switching to almost anything else will sound like a downgrade to me.
Lots of YT comments saying similar things (don’t sell the DAWs).
It’s all personal preference. No right or wrong.
And swapping speakers naturally gonna have waay more effect on sound quality contrasts than changing between two good amps or two sets of good cables. |
By muddy I meant the opposite of good clarity.
So unrelated or at least not inconsistent with the thinness I perceive.
Don’t take it personally. Just one person’s opinion
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Probably not Luxman separates, but maybe something like Gryphon Essence and a REF6SE (which would be more than $30k but you get idea). I'm pretty confident that would destroy any $3k amp, though of course I haven't heard the one you're talking about.
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Hey Kudos for trying those speakers. Excited to hear how they burn in.
The initial sluggishness I heard must have been due to placement because these definitely should not be sluggish. Or maybe bc DAW right behind them. If anything, their quickness is often regarded as their best feature.
I’m much more interested in seeing how these evolve than some of the other guesses that were floated. Good choice.
I have a suggestion. Try the Merrill’s with these. I have heard this exact speaker sound really fantastic with bel canto black class d. I bet the Merrill’s would do same. These babies need monoblocks!! |
