You can do excellent grounding and AC filtering for way less money than the Nordost stuff......Just doing the grounding stuff recommended in the below link would probably blow your mind. The grounding stuff is a separate grounding rod you install just for your stereo, the Puritan Ground Master filter, and a bunch of wires to connect each component to the Puritan line filter. All under $500 total. The Puritan line filter......less than $2K for the 156 version is raved about in this thread and can be used in conjunction with all the above grounding thangs......my friend is doing all the above in his stereo but starts off with a 3000 watt battery powered low distortion inverter in front of it all......super dead quiet and transparent.....mind blowing. The whole enchilada for the Puritan Line filter 256, the Ground master, the ground rod, installation (if you cannot put in a rod on your own)......would be less than $3K.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173793.0
|
I have not listened to a stock PS Audio or the Rouge. I am offering mods on these units based on my 6 months of mods to the IceEdge module and selling a dozen dual mono amps with the modded modules. The modded Rouge will sound almost identical to my amps....the PS Audio will have its tube input flavor added. They will both benefit the same from the mods. Whether you want/like the tube buffer is all subjective. You know what you lean to. |
Viber 6,
My mod to the PS Audio 1200 mono blocks does not eliminate the tube input stage....what I do is purify the IceEdge module, the AC power, and the output connector/wiring. The website is now changed to clarify this point. It does not make sense for someone to mod the PS Audio and not use the tube buffer. If you want zero buffer then just get the Rouge Audio Design amp and have me mod it.......way cheaper.
You can buy pure sine wave inverters and separate batteries for way cheaper than buying a Yeti or any other all in one. Just make sure the inverter has fans that don’t start till it is using half power.....noisy fans are not much fun. If you buy a 3000 watt inverter the fans should never come on unless you are drawing 1500 watts or more. Most stereos do not idle at anything close to 1500 watts. Class D amps idle at low current, so you can run all day on inverters without needing super monster batteries. Still, you would want at least 200ah of batteries. By the way, Yeti's and most other all in ones are noisy.....fans run all the time.
|
zip cord? All brands of zip cord will sound different. All gauges will sound different. The directionality of the wire makes a difference....and of course, you want the cables off the floor. If you listen to zip cord with bare ends the you have a serious advantage. All speaker connectors suck. Use bare wires and binding post bypass system (my invention). Zip cord is not serious wire for audio.....ordinary wire, ordinary insulation....makes for ordinary sound. PVC sucks as a dialetric.
IceEdge: The stock IceEdge is OK. If you put a tube in front of it....like PS Audio does....and upgrade the tube to NOS then you get good sound. If you modifiy the IceEdge module then you get really good sound without a tube needed. However, no matter what you do to it.....it will never be state of the art......just fantastic for the money.
The writing on the wall is clear. The class D amps of the future will be what we will all be using. The AGD amps are getting raves ($7500 5 lb. mono blocks....20 day home trial).....Mytek is releasing 500 watt mono GaN based amps in two months for $20K and right after that a dual mono stereo 200 watt GaN based amp for $7K. These may compete with the big boys.....and even the 500 watters weigh only 30lbs each. More tweaky class D is in progress including $5K Gan based amp from Atmasphere.
Would love to see Jay make an open baffle speaker using the top of the line 10 inch Cube full range driver. Have you guys read the reviews of the $16K Nenuphar?.....that uses these drivers. The stock Nenuphar is limited by its construction. The speaker box is veiling the sound, the binding posts on the back are veiling the sound and the tip jacks on the speaker and the bananas that they must be using there are really veiling the sound. So, if you mounted the drivers ($8500 a pair delivered to your door) on a four foot high by 2 foot wide baffle and used one foot by 4 foot wings directly pointing back on the sides.....you would get a flat response to around 40 hz. You buy some great $15 a foot speaker wire without connectors and you connect to your mono blocks right behind the speaker and hard wire the speaker wire directly to the voice coil wire. This would be way more transparent than the Nenuphar......probably would blow you mind. I would make the baffles out of 3 pieces of three quarter inch material (2.25 inches thick total).....all different types to kill the resonances. I would use bamboo plywood, highly refined particle board and 13 ply baltic birch. You could use a solid piece of Oak or Maple as the front as well..... no binding posts, no crossover, no veiling box.....just pure open sound. If I had the money, this is what I would do......for $10K it would probably beat most $100K speakers except for power, bass and dynamics. However, you would be amazed at the purity of sound......the phase perfect imaging, time aligned by God. I am drooling at the possibilities. Lots of cool stuff out there for way less money.........Of course, you could run open baffle woofs next to them and limit the low end response of the Cube speakers by inserting a small super transparent cap in line with the main amp to limit the response to say 100 hz and then bring in a pair of big bad 15 incher’s driven by their own class D modded IceEdge for bass that would knock your walls down.....maybe another $5k.
I know Jay won’t do this.....but someone reading this might. You would be in for a serious treat. Most of us reading this thread cannot afford a single item Jay is using. This is just entertainment.....like following Supercar Blonde. However a $10K speaker is doable for many.......My friend in Pocoima, CA is using the $1200 a pair Lii Audio 10 inch silver full range driver on a baffle exactly as I described. He is adding 2 15 inch woofs right now on another open baffle for each side. He loves the Lii drivers.....once burned in and wired directly to the voice coil. He is getting flat to 40hz and the speaker is 95db sensitive......for less than $2K you can build this speaker. Best speaker he has ever had. He has added an ESS medium size AMT on top with copper foil cap for a slight improvement on top. |
I love what I hear from the stock Nenuphar. But I know (you do not) what binding posts, banana plugs and jacks, extra wires, cabinets and not wiring to the voice coil wire do to the sound. The fact that you do not like the looks of an open baffle speaker.....well, that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about purity of sound. I am talking about goosebumps beyond the stock Nenuphar. You could take your Nenuphar driver out and hardwire a super speaker wire to its voice coil wire and run that wire outside the back directly to your amp.....it would blow you mind how much more beauty and information you would get....and you still have your box. However, an open baffle version would probably sound better......however, you would lose a little deep bass. Most people just buy stock equipment and never realize how they could do something for less money and get better sound. To each, his own. btw, Jay's wife does not care what he does. He has had giant Maggies in there.....it is his man cave. |
Is this kindergarten? Teasers?.....Demanding so many subscribers before A/Bing certain gear? Constantly justifying why you do what you do? Who, is all this serving? Hardly any audiophiles can even afford this gear. I guess you think you are in some kind of entertainment industry?
You want to entertain and get more subscribers? Here is a way. Keep one serious reference system.....do not sell it. Then, bring in affordable cutting edge products and A/B with your reference......and also tweak the affordable gear to make them even better. You would have 100K subscribers in a minute, if you did that. How about the Spatial X3 speakers.....and you could tweak them for better sound. They are only $8500.....built in 15 inch powered woofer. High efficiency mids and tweet using big AMT in waveguide.....all open baffle.....simply incredibly for the money.....what if this speaker was as good as your Magico or whatever......wouldn't you want everyone in the world to know....so they don't need to spend so much money? Now this.....would serve people. I would be here everyday lending a hand. A tweaked out Cube open baffle speaker would be mind blowing, as well. How about the new AGT amps....only $7500 the pair. How about lots of things besides ultra conservative expensive gear. There are some wild inexpensive things out there, that will make your hairs raise up and blow your mind. Or, you can just stick to expensive large box speakers that double as workout machines.
Yes, I still love you....each and every one. But, as someone who likes to point the way to the possibilities of happiness......I like to hold up a mirror and state what can be done.....the more people served....the more we are all happy. How can you serve more people? |
The midrange and tweeter are more sensitive than the woofer....so they pad the mids and tweets using resistors. Wilson gives you a way to "tune the frequency response slightly by changing the value of the resistors.....They will also somewhat "protect" the driver from being overdriven, but it is only a side light......All resistors mess up the sound. This is why active xovers are so good.....no passive xover parts whatsoever.
Here are some interesting factoids: Caddock resistors are good, but not great. If you bypass the large Caddock resistors with a Nude Vishay resistor of much higher value you will get more transparent sound. I have done this, so I know. The main problem with what Wilson is doing to make it "easy" to fine tune the speaker (and it sounds like hardly anyone every touches those resistors) it that the binding post that are used to hold them degrade the sound. All connectors suck....big time. Big Wilson speakers have 4 binding posts in series with the mids and highs and one set of spades......way, not good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is best to hardwire your padding resistors into the xover and run hardwired wires right to the drivers.....without additional spades and binding posts. Wilson ships their speakers with heads on them in separate boxes so the spade and binding posts are there for convenience. They could provide tinned wire to wire clamps using teflon bolts.....way better sound. When you build your own speaker you can do much better.....including hardwire directly to the voice coil wire and not going through the tab or binding post on the driver (don’t think anyone has ever done this on a production product).....Less is more. If all this was done to a Wilson speaker you would pee your pants. |
If the bypassed Caddock resistors were inside the box, where they belong, then the speaker would look slicker in the back......also, you could design a clamping system for the extension cable that would look totally cool. No, not about aluminum foil (nice exaggerated try...sort of like the aluminum hat thing). No, it is ignorance, lack of desire, laziness and most of all....lack of creativity....that keeps the manufacturers from doing things all out. You can have the most beautiful thing in the world and have all out sonics. They can go together. The possibilities are infinite. |
Of course, you will hear more info if you system is tweaked first....same goes for everything. You will hear more speaker differences if everything is tweaked first. However, fuses are relatively inexpensive compared to $5K stands and cables. They will make the same difference whenever you use them......you will just hear less of the difference (again, same goes for everything). Try them anytime.....they may do much more than cable changes.
By the way, some people like difference fuses better than Synergistic....do some searching. You have only just begun. Try a stock fuse wrapped with copper foil that has conductive adhesive....wrap around once......for a temporary quick reference. |
Why so serious? You want to break peoples heart? This is all just a game. Who cares what others think!?! When you have REAL self esteem, everything is fun and NO ONE is wrong. High end audio has no rules, no right or wrong. It is all personal and subjective. Every man for himself. Have you looked at others systems.....not one alike.....nada. Well, a few are copiers, but most just do their own thing. Same here. The problem with this thread is that it is about stuff most people cannot buy....so it has very little relevance to most people.....then add the ego strutting and this is how it looks now.
If you can, try to stop taking any of this personally. You are not going to win love from people. People either love you or they don’t. If you post on any open forum then you will have to deal with ego....yours and everyone else’s......unless.....you can lighten up and just present gear and stop qualifying your reasons......you don’t need a reason. Just present the gear and let everyone’s ego do their thing. Most people are not teachable.....are you? The drama will always happen......no matter how you try to steer it. Let go....go with the flow. Just present what you love and love what you present. Very simple. Enjoy every second. Some will like what you do, some will not. If you want unconditional love....then you better go inside and find it there.....for the world will not give it to you. When you find it inside.....then you could care less what others think. The mind is a make wrong machine. The heart.....is pure love and joy. Stay in your heart. |
What a big build up!!!!........I am so in suspense!!!
If I had a ton of money and wanted to buy a DAC I would want to hear an A/B with the better sounding Vivaldi gear versus the MSB Reference (way closer in pricing).....and I would, for sure, want to know what the Select brings to the table. By the way, some like other DACs better than either of these two, including Jonathan Valin who likes the Soulution 760 better than the Select. Why Jay down graded to the Rossini, I never could figure out. All of this could have been done 2 months ago. He could have just told us all the differences he hears and present one video showing one A/B that would demonstrate the differences. Instead, we have months of build up and we were being held hostage to how many people subscribe and now we have to listen over and over to A/Bs and vote!?!
There is a new DAC from Musetec (formerly LKS) ......the 005. This $3300 (including shipping to your door) DAC has everyone who has heard it dancing in joy. How does this very tweaky Chinese DAC stand up to the big boys? Their last version, the $1600 LKS 004 with my $400 mod was keeping up with $10K DACs......this new Musetec 005 is way better in every way than my modded 004. What are you getting going from $3300 to $40K- $100K+. Wouldn’t you all want to know? If you are stuck on fancy name brands.....then no. If you are interested in great sound and value....then yes.
What is this thread about?...... A quest for the best sound possible? Entertainment? One man’s journey through time playing with stereo gear?. Education and knowledge? Just passing time? Being right? Caring and loving? Wanting everyone to be happy? We create our own reality.....moment by moment. What we contribute to others determines our happiness. |
Jay,
You can buy the Musetec DAC directly from Shenzhen audio and if you do not like it, then you can return it for a refund. Of course, it will cost you a hundred dollars of so to return it to China. You know, less than the cost of one Synergistic fuse.....I am sure you can afford that. So, do you really want to know? Most of us do not have the kind of cash you do. What is the retail of your current system?....$400K++?.........and then the total retail for all your gear in your room? $600K?...........So, if you wanted to, you could buy, borrow, buy with 30 day money back, etc. all kinds of cheaper gear.......IF YOU WANTED........DO YOU REALLY WANT????? If you really are an educator then educate us. Name brand expensive gear? That is just one of an infinite games you could play. Very limited. We are Infinite.......but not everyone has almost unlimited funds.....what about the rest of us? Don’t you love us "normal" audiophiles. The average Audiophile has maybe a $20K or so system. Help us, please. It might just blow your mind to venture in the the "creative possibilities game".....including better sound than you have now.
So, Grey Goose is somehow superior to what others drink? Maybe you will find someone else’s beer gear better than yours.....that would not be good for the ego but good for your soul. |
If you really wanted to do something.....there is always a win win scenario. There is no reason anyone has to lose. You could contact Shenzhen directly or contact Musetec directly for a loan. However, lets say you bought it from Shenzhen......and you thought is was 85% of the $75K MSB......so even if you return it for refund (and what do they lose doing that.....maybe a few dollars to put it in a new box?) you might stimulate hundreds of sales. You would have more people coming to you for information. If it were great for the money, you could also sell it in a few minutes to someone by just mentioning that it was for sale. As far as listening to people.....you are already doing that. You have certain reviewers, friends, dealers that you trust. That is how you get knowledge. That would not have to change. You would just expand your pool of possibilities. Most people who suggest things have very little actual knowledge of the possibilities of things. So, of course, you would only listen to those that you know have extensive knowledge. Of course, the audio game is infinite.......and you have decided to play with expensive components......so....here we are. It is easier to play in a small field that is contained. If you play in a large field you will need outfielders to help you fetch the balls that were hit a mile away from your mind set. We could help you.....or you can just play in your small current high priced field. Mind expansion is fun! Audio expansion is fun! and it does not have to cost much.......so more people can play on the field. The problem with playing with expensive equipment is that most manufacturers of lesser priced gear might not want to send you anything because there might not be anything gotten in return. If you say a $3K DAC is not as good as an $80K DAC then no one is going to learn anything from that comparison (unless you rave about the piece, despite it not being as good). And the chance that a 3K DAC sounding as good as an $80K DAC are not good. However, it could happen. No one knows much in this game. How many manufacturers of "normal priced" gear have A/Bed their stuff with mega buck stuff......just does not happen. However, there are certain components and ways to do things that are way more tweaky and transparent then even what the mega products do. I have talked about them. This is why someone could make there own speakers for practically nada that would compete with the big boys. Here is a video of a homemade speaker using a $430 a pair plus shipping full range 8 inch driver from Lii Audio of China played back with a $400 server, a $1000 DAC (a "soft sounding" first generation Denafrips Aries) and a $1000 amp (cheap Ncore class D stereo module). I am sure he is using junk binding posts on his speaker and has not bypassed the binding posts on the speaker driver. You can hear box resonances here......Still.....you get a hint at what these 97db speakers can do. A friend is using the 10 inch version on an open baffle and is crazy over them. Imagine what these speakers would do if tweaked and with Jay’s electronics.....you would cry, it would sound so good! You can build these speakers yourself for $1000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could pay someone $1500 to make you a super set of multi-layer super dead boxes.....and then just mount the drivers inside https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_VqDN5-878Sometimes the sound fades in and out and has distortion.....but still.....I mean....well, WTF! The paradise of sound is waiting for you. It is here....you can reach out a take it......it is yours. You don’t need to cash it you T bills.......just use your head. Now, back to your normal program......"Listen to expensive equipment here" |
Jonathan Valin prefers the Soulution DAC over the MSB Reference.....and just the other day a person posted on What's Best that he had both in his house at the same time and preferred the Soulution.
"All I can say is in the context of my system the 760 was much better overall ( better dynamics, better resolution, similar tonality…fuller sound overall). The difference was bigger with lower volumes and I dont use a dedicated preamp, so maybe the output stage explains some part, but even at higher volumes the soulution was better."
Of course, using a $30K+ preamp plus another $5K cable in the chain might turn the tide.....and maybe not.
It never ends......why spend so much money on something that will be outdated soon? I wonder how good the $3300 Musetec DAC is compared to the $72K Soulution.....hmmmmmm. |
His review is in the magazine only at this point.....not posted to the Absolute Sound website.....maybe later. Get someone to read it to you.....you know, a bedtime story. |
I don't believe much of what anyone says......he he. However, there is also a third person on the Whats Best that preferred the Soulution over the MSB......a trend?
What I would like is an A/B with the Select, Vivaldi, all out Ares Cerat, all out tweaked Lampy, monster TotalDAC, Soulution, Wadax Reference and whatever else is the "best". Then I would like to see the best of the best A/Bed with the lesser Gods like the Musetec, etc. to see how much most of us could buy. I mean, how many people buy those top tiered DACs? Jay, will you do this for me? The Wadax is a mere pocket change $145K. Robert Harley thinks its the cat's meow. |
Dacs are no different from other components. You can build speakers (or have them built for you) for way less than $20K that sound better than 200K speakers......so spending more than $20K is stupid (someone else's word). Same with preamps, amps, cables, streamers, etc. It is stupid...he he....to spend more than $5-10K on any component and over $2K for any cable (and you can build your own cables). Diminishing return is what the high price stuff is about. Yes, you possibly get better performance.....but if you seriously tweaked with less expensive stuff you could get the same level of sound. You can use your intelligence and creativity or use your wallet and just buy expensive name brands. |
|
Correction to my above post. The 8 inch Lii drivers ($500 a pair delivered) would get 50hz in room on the baffle I described......my friend in Pocoima has the 99 db 10 inch drivers on his baffle and they measure flat to 40hz. A pair of the 10 inch drivers are $1300 delivered (less than one quarter the cost of one Jay interconnect).
|
So cool that Viber thinks the $3500 system that I showed using a pair of $500 drivers mounted in home made boxes might be as good as Jay’s $400,000 system......he he. And the drivers were not even hooked up in the most transparent way.
With a full range driver you have perfect time and near perfect phase alignment.....better than any Wilson. And, if mounted on an open baffle.....no box sound........and cheap as heck.
One of you guys needs to buy a pair of these drivers and put it on a 4 foot high by 2 foot wide dead baffle with one foot by four foot wings on each side going straight back (flat in room to 40 hz). Will take you just a few hours to make a crude version.....if you burn it in hard for 200 hours and hook it up according to my instructions (soon to be posted on my site, as well as some accessories to make it happen easier).....you will have your mind completely blown......add a pair of ESS AMT super tweeters crossed over with a single copper foil cap and you have moved beyond heaven. Or would you would rather play with heavy expensive name brand boxes that are hard to drive and need heavy expensive amps....and get worse sound. Try it! What have you got to lose?....less than a grand. A few hours? These drivers are 97db.....you can drive them crazy with 10 watts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a friend with the above system and is now adding two 15 inch woofers on a same size baffle to add some serious slam on the bottom. He will drive the woofs with a solid state class A amp using an inexpensive electronic xover kit from Pass. I will have pics on my site when he has made the new baffles and installed everything. He lives in Pocoima, CA and I bet he would not mind people over to hear it in person. Of course, you can make your own very easily, anywhere in the world. |
Viber,
Here is a quote from someone who had me mod his three year old stereo IceEdge amp (Mivera Audio). His amp already had Furutech AC inlet and super expensive Furutech AC wire and Furutech binding posts and Furutech XLR inputs....so was already ahead of any normal implementation. This is the $350 mod that I did. If I had done the binding post bypass mod it would be even better. And it is not dual mono......like yours.
" I wanted to let you know that the amp arrived safe and sound, yesterday. I put it in the system today and it’s been playing for a couple of hours. I’m sure it’s way to early to make any valid assessments, but I can say that what I’m hearing seems much more transparent and lively than the amp I sent you. It’s quite a bit more interesting to listen to rather than the boring quality that it originally had."
|
All these expensive amps will soon be boat anchors. Check out the $7.5K AGD Audion....check out the $3K LSA Voyager (just released and I will be modding them soon), check out the new Mytek $6K Manhattan and $20K Empire amps (coming soon). This new generation of Class D using GaN fets is just the beginning. More and more high end companies will be releasing class D amps.....Imagine a class D output stage with Gryphon or Boulder discrete front ends driving them...WOW!. Class D output stages are tiny and super efficient....so no heatsinks and banks of output transistors. So, a Boulder or Gryphon class D amp would be way less heavy, be smaller and cost less. They might be working on a GaN class D amp right now!!!! If not, they are stuck in the past. If you stay with the expensive heavy boxes you are going to lose a lot of money and have a hard time selling them in a few years as class D takes over.
Same with preamps.....check out the $2000 Denafrips Athena preamp and also the $3100 Holo Audio Serene preamp.......some serious technology in these things and getting rave reviews......and dirt cheap compared to $40K preamps.
Speakers.....well, one can make speakers for very little that compete and beat the big boys.....has been known for years. My friend has the 98 db modified Lii Audio full range 10 inch driver on a 4 foot by 2 foot open baffle with 4 foot by one foot wings going straight back and is getting flat to 40 hz in his pretty good sized room. He added an ESS dipole AMT tweeter on top using a copper foil cap to make it even better....total cost with wood and drivers is a little over $2K. HE IS GOBSMACKED! He goes to shows and his system right now is way out there. He is going to add 2 15 inch woofs on the bottom on each channel so he can blow the walls down.....4 woofs plus solid state amp plus xover is another $3K. Should blow most $100K+ speakers away.
This thread does nothing for the average audiophile. They cannot afford any of the components discussed here. This is why so little traffic, discussions and so few people subscribing to Jay's channel. You basically have the same thing happening over and over and discussed by the same people over and over.......saying the same things over and over. It is entertaining......but look at Supercar Blonde......she is entertaining and has over 6.5 million subscribers. If you played the same game but at the level that most people are at then you would have thousands and thousands more people involved. As it is.....it is a small club....for the wealthy and conservative non tweakers......a very small amount of people.
There is nothing wrong with this thread.....Jay and others are nice people.....it just does not serve very many people.....nor does it display a wide variety of music or opinions or the REAL possibilities of audio taken to the nth degree (at whatever price point).
I know that many enjoy this thread and are grateful for Jay for doing what he does. This is all good. But.....there is more......much more......it is infinite. May all be blessed with infinite joy and love. Peace. |
" I was able to compare my AGD amps against my brothers Boulder 3050 amps for a month driving Wilson XLF’s. The Boulder edged out the AGD Audion’s slightly but considering the AGD Audion is the entry level amp for AGD it did spectacular."
Let’s look at this closer. We have the 3050 which is sonically superior to the 2150 amps that Jay reviewed and that he thought were the best amps he had ever heard.........So, are the $7500 AGD Audion amps then as good as the 2150s? The 3050s are $195K. The 2150s are $99K. The 3050’s weigh 441 lbs. each. The AGD Audion’s weigh 5 lbs. each!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The AGD amps are really a $3500 amp with added glitz in the form of fake tubes, tube guard, fancy shipping case and fancy power cords......If you took the circuit and power supplies of the Audion’s and put it in a stereo dual mono normal chassis and shipped it in a cardboard box then it would be around $3500.......so a $3500 amp was close to the $195K Boulder amps???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Audion’s have one dollar op amps for the input buffers......they cannot be state of the art....never.....so that means that if they were done with better input stages, etc. they probably would blow away any Boulder?......not in power...hardly......but WTF. It already looks like all those heavy expensive things are boat anchors. Good luck trying to sell them after the really great class D amps show up. OMG what a revolution! |
Jay,
Did you ever try the Orange or (according to some) the even better Quantum Science fuses in your Gryphon gear? If not, you have never heard their "full potential".
So, whatever happened with all the orange fuses you got in? We heard hardly a peep. Are you going to try the Quantum Science fuses? Seems so silly to talk about $5-10K power cords and not try a couple hundred dollar fuse as well.
And what about the connections between the Pandora power supply and the main preamp box. No doubt you tried all the latest contact enhancers like PPT, Mad Scientist, and now the raved about High Fidelity Cable goop !?!
"Full potential" means you try everything possible. Unless you cannot afford it.
The word "tweak".....simply means trying different things to improve something. Power cords, interconnects, ground enhancers, footers, stands, room treatments, cable risers, fuses, adding extra mass, damping things, room tuning jobbies, moving the speakers around, etc, into infinity are all "tweaks".....so don't tell me you are not a tweaker. |
Viber6,
He said that he has heard 300 watt class D amps that sound bad driving his Wilson's. He is currently using an 85 watt (170 at 4 ohm) class D amp (AGD Audion) that drives them just fine. Just as you stated.....there is no class D sound. Depends on implementation. And it will keep getting better.....we have only just begun.....class A amps......soon to be boat anchors.....he he. I wonder what the new Mytek GaN monos (more in Jay's price range) will sound like? Due out any day. |
Jay, I hope you are not planning to leave this planet soon.....because even this year class D may have equaled the best of class A. We shall see, very soon. Class A......soon to be boat anchors. Already many are abandoning their tubes and solid state hotties for the latest and best class D........of course, that is....in the under $10K category. The $20K Mytek’s will be out any day now......will they challenge the biggies? We shall see....er hear....very soon. If Boulder or Gryphon or Dagostino or Constellation or Ch precision or etc. used their class A all discrete input stages in front of a class D GaN output stage then the game would be over right now. The cheaper class D amps all are using op amps or an op amp in the input stages or modulation stages in their amps. Even the Purifi (which can be married to a class A input buffer stage) still has an OPA1612 on the Purifi module the signal goes through. One thing I will be trying in the next 10 days is to see if I cannot upgrade that opamp for better sonics. I read that the AGD Audion uses the $1 LM4562 op amp on its input. Much more to come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/merrill-element-116-audition-in-hong-kong-a-new-era-of-classd...please read posts #20 and #22.....seems you an alter the sound of the Merrill amps quite a bit......something I have never seen talked about. Maybe Jay never really heard what they can do. |
Come on......there has been nothing new stated on this thread in years......yes, the same message over and over.......basically....."buy more stuff". And all the commentators say the same thing over and over.....including me.
This is hardly a "professional setting".
The REAL truth needs to be stated over and over again. The real truth is that you are beautiful beyond you imagination. WE are infinite and eternal love, joy and beauty. This audio stuff is just kids playing with toys and thinking they know something. We known nothing. We are everything. Enjoy this very moment. This is the only moment you have.....this one right now. The more you enjoy it.....the more joy you add to the entire universe. The more you Love this moment the more love you add to the entire universe.....forever. This needs to be said over and over again.....you are beautiful, I love you and thank you for sharing this moment with me. You are truly a blessing. |
What is little to some is a lot to others. My general feeling is......If you buy expensive gear then that is a waste of money:.......that is, you can get better sound by buying and tweaking super great cheaper equipment than you can buying expensive equipment and not tweaking. So the "little" tweaks are actually a major thing. This is what I and others have been doing for years (about 45 years here). People have listened to my modestly priced system and shaken their heads......looking for the tubes......looking for the expensive stuff....and there isn't any. What there is.....is super tweaked inexpensive gear. My system is so tweaky that is one cable falls off its riser and is sitting on the floor for an inch then the whole soundstage is wrong. I listen to exactly the same song at the same volume with everything set up the same.......and when a cable falls off its riser.....I know something is wrong....within seconds of hitting play. You do not need $400K worth of gear to get serious sound. If you have the drive (desire)....you can create a serious audio system for $20K or less.........actually....way less. This is a untweaked $3K system (including $430 a pair full range drivers in homemade box)........what if he tweaked each piece of gear and added super footers, etc....maybe another $3K.......you would die and go to heaven....the sound would be so good. Please listen to all the cuts....some are much better than others....but you will get the idea. This is outrageous for the money. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_VqDN5-878&list=RDp_VqDN5-878&start_radio=1 |
All 60 trillion cells in my body dance in the infinite light of the divine. What a miracle we all are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I said that nothing new is being said here......above is a prime example. Viber6 says exactly the same thing on almost every post. The ego is so funny (hey, I still got one!). We are so addicted to the same patterns. We are not our ego patterns....we are infinite. There are lots of games to play and many of them are far more satisfying than discussing/being right about "detail" or "dynamics" or whatever.
How you do any one thing is how you do everything. What if you did Everything with total joy, love and gratitude. Every thought you think, every word you say (or post here or anywhere), every feeling you feel and and every action you take affects every single person on the planet. How do you want us (all of us) to feel? When you listen to Jay's stereo do you feel uplifted? Do you feel uplifted when you listen to your own stereo? Do you share your uplifted state with all? Are you a better person....after you "make love" here? Is there a better lover....and better song.....a better dance.....a more uplifting joyful all inclusive dance? Just questions to ponder on this beautiful Sunday.....blessings to all. |
TMI for you guys. What I said is real. Better for me not to talk about this new technology. Those that read my two posts I removed....have been warned. I have only told 2 people.....it is staying at that. My desire is to shout the good news to the whole world......but, we are not quite ready. I will shout when ready. Have fun......blessings. |
Don’t let your ego get in a ruffle. That is called defense by attacking. What I do is my business. What you do is yours. I am here to inform. I am here to help others with their life and their stereo. What I said is not a theory....the new technology exists RIGHT NOW and is being tested by several companies.....you WILL see the results in 6 months to a year. You have been warned. |
We are all......always looking in the mirror. Thank you for your mirror. What do you see in the mirror when looking at me?
We only see our own desires. Reality is beyond ego seeing. You can learn to see/live with your heart and soul. |
I am not advertising here. I might or might not have anything to do with this new technology.....I certainly won’t make much money from it. I am offering you information that is ahead of its time. Most of you will not benefit from my advice as you see what I say as a threat to your ego and your expensive equipment. No problem. Only one person has to benefit. By those that think and ponder and use their heart also.....they might benefit.
I feel sorry for those that dream of owning expensive equipment. This moment is a total miracle....way beyond any one million dollar stereo. If you live this moment.....and the next and the next in the miracle that it is then vicarious living is a dream.........I am happy....I am happy right now. I don’t need a one million dollar anything. Yogananda said.....be a smile millionaire.......it is free!
We are not separate.....I am also your audience. I have spoken. It is so.....blessed be. |
Some, like Viber6 do not like "texturally meaty soul".....they think it is a coloration. How much TMS is natural? Even that is debatable. Tubes tend to make things sound better than real......or some might say, restore the original texture that the recording process removes.
Here is what is really interesting. YOU CAN do a straight wire bypass test on an amp to see how true it is to the source. You simply add another amp between the preamp and amp and then pad the preamp down for the added gain of the additional amp. Yes, connector adapters would be required. If an amp cannot drive the high input impedance of an amp without coloration....it is not going to do any better on a low impedance speaker. I know someone who was doing this back in the 70s....his wideband transistor amp killed every amp (tube or solid state) amp it was ever A/Bed with.
So, if Jay wants to know how pure an amp is.....then he should do this test on all amps he listens to. What is really weird is that I have never heard anything pass the straight wire test....including small pieces of wire. Everything colors the sound......so, what color do you like.? What I want is the instruments to sound so real and detailed that I go into trance. However, I do not need tubes to do this. Solid state and super tweaking everywhere brings all the harmonics in proper order. If you use a Wilson speaker with 4 sets of binding posts in series with the mids and highs......how can you get all the harmonic richness through?....you cannot. If you were to hardwire a Wilson....you would know what I am talking about.
Years ago I was installing a set of Music Post binding posts on a guys speaker but the posts were too long to mount correctly.....we had listened to the installed posts hanging off the back of his speaker already......but because we did not have a hacksaw I could not mount them. So, for temporary use I soldered the wires from inside the speaker to the side edge of his spade on his speaker wire. We played the same tune (the Bob’s.....men A capella) and within seconds the guy looks at me and says....."well, forget Music Posts" . It sounded like a different recording....you could hear all these subtle harmonic shadings and dynamics and color in the voices.....and this from removing one set of posts.....imagine removing 4 sets of posts from the Wilson.....OH MY GOD! it would blow your mind. |
I already stated that this new technology has nothing to do with what I am doing now......this is new technology...never implemented before. Yes, it will replace everything!
I could care less about the reaction that a few people have on this forum. There is always an opportunity to state the truth. Of course, if I say the same thing every hour.....then I am like all the others here....he he. I come every few days to state the truth.....that will set you free. And that truth is.....you are beautiful.....beyond whatever you think or anyone thinks.....we are infinite and truly a miracle......an eternal miracle. We keep evolving to feel this truth.....more and more. And audio keeps evolving so we don’t have to spend so much money and time on it. It is as beautiful and changing as we are. May we all feel the infinite/eternal love and joy that we are!
Thank you for starting this thread so that all can speak their truth and we can therefore all live in more joy! |
Instead of addressing the issue, you go on the defensive.....by getting offensive. Also juvenile. Who’s barking orders now? I love you....You are beautiful....so is everyone. Have a great every second.....it is free!
Why do you do the teasing game?......please tell us......What do you and everyone else think of my suggestion? |
Jay is probably doing the "secret teasing dance" for financial reasons (keep everyone coming back for more and getting more hits). Seems really ridiculous to me. I would tell everyone ASAP what I have....not tease them for weeks or months. I think you could build more excitement by telling us even before the components arrive what you are doing....."I just ordered this pair of mono blocks....they should be here in 3 weeks....cannot wait to see how good they are......stay tuned" Then when they arrive make a big fanfare......then burn them in for a little while and then show them in all their glory......then burn them in some more..... then try different cables and equipment to get the best sound. The teasing game seems juvenile.
Woof woof......he he. Jay will do what he wants, that is for sure. |
The stock feet on the ARC products are cheap rubber thangs.....EAR feet, to be exact (at least that is what is shown on their website). They sound rubbery....slow. Please try various (try different ones to see which works best) serious feet underneath the ARC if you have not already......assuming you are wanting the best sound possible. Of course, adding Quantum Science Fuses to the ARC and to all components that use a fuse will take it up a serious notch....again, only if you are pursuing great sound will you do this......he he |
I was mentioned above by kren0006 as a giant killer pusher and that my system was as good as Jay’s.....I never said my system was as good as Jay’s nor do I think I have any piece of gear that is as good. What I said was that one could make a speaker that would equal or beat the Wilson big boys for pennies or dimes on the dollar......this I know is a fact and many, many out there have done it. What I also said is that there will be class D amps within 1-3 years (maybe sooner) that will equal class A amps for overall sound.....making class A super heavy (and expensive) amps, at that time, boat anchors....he he. Of course, it will take years before there is any total agreement about this......but the writing is on the wall.
What Viber6 says is another story......it is not mine. |
The mod to the amp was finished yesterday. I am burning in the new connectors and wires for 24 hours and it will be shipped to yyz tomorrow. He will probably get it Friday or Sat. Hopefully, he burns it in a little more and does his testing. What he does after that with the amp is up to him. This is the basic mod......there might be more advanced mods down the road.
I don’t believe any of the current under $7500 Class D amps now being produced (even with mods) can beat > $100K Block Mono Blocks, etc. The most respected of the new class D amps is the Audion from AGD ($7500 the pair). Someone needs to send one of these in for comparison. When someone makes a Class D amp using all super discrete transistors (rather than $1 or less op amps) and does listening tests to every part.....then.....you will see some seriously crazy class D. However, the current crop of class D amps including modded Purifi, LSA/Peachtree (stock and modded), Orchard Audio and Cherry Audio are fantastic for the money and really great amps. Even the AGD Audion uses $1 op amps on its input......so it will never give the best sound possible. Come on designers!....move up to the 21st century and get serious with a class D amp! Maybe the $20K pair of Myteks (to be released soon?) will have discrete transistors and be great?.....I am not holding my breath....But, it will happen, but I would not expect a state of the art class D amp for under $10K.......probably higher. |
There are tons of different footers.....including the ones on the equipment as standard. You have only scratched the surface of what footers can do by trying Still Points and Critical Mass. Try springs, try Mad Scientist, try Marigo, try a million things....but to think all footers sound like what you have listened to so far is foolish. Remember.....the footers on the equipment are footers.....they choose them for a reason.....and maybe the reason is not great.....and maybe it is to some extent. Manufacturers usually don't use audiophile fuses.....but we know they can improve the sound.
Of course, there may be some equipment that will always sound best with its stock feet.......but then there is the stand to consider. Here is what I use: A large inner tube with so little air in it that it bounces at less than 5 hz......on top of that I use an Ikea bamboo cutting board......on top of that I use a maple board that is 1.5 inches thick......the maple and the bamboo cancel each others resonances (mostly). On top of that I use the Mad Scientist $300 a set....footers (two of them with the ball up and the other with the ball down). The system works great. I am sure there are better ways to do things.....but this is pretty dang good and not very expensive. No $5000 racks here! |
A couple of years ago there was a long running thread on DACs. The guy that started it has a very high end system. He described how a few buddies came over one weekend and they played with maybe 4 different types of footers. In the end, a different footer sounded best on almost all his gear. Again, this is a tuning game. FINE tuning is what brings tears to my eyes. I can afford to do that.
Maybe that is what you need.....several audio buddies......then it is not just you lifting 100lb thangs around. You would have more fun....try more things...get more perspectives......and, you know.....get a little tweaky. It could be a men cave......rather then a man cave. Mo is betta.....more love, more fun, more knowledge, more growth. |
dguitarnut, Laughing and poking at people is a reflection of how you feel about yourself. When you love yourself completely then you love everyone completely. There are thousands of audiophiles who have played with air bladders, innertubes, springs, damped springs etc. to vertically isolated their components and get better sound. There are several manufacturers using pnuematic tubes, air springs, damped springs (Townsend Audio), etc. Here is a review of a "beyond air" isolating platform used under a turntable: http://www.10audio.com/minus-k_ct-2.htmAt $4500 it is out of my price range......way out. Now these are in my price range: https://www.amazon.com/Preffair-Protector-Isolation-Dampening-Vibration/dp/B093F3RZJ2/ref=rvi_4/140-...Trouble is....the springs in the above type of cheap device are fairly stiff. You want a seriously low frequency isolation (less than 5 hz). You can remove some of the springs to lower the resonance.....depending on the weight being supported. Here is a company that makes wavesprings. You can choose 4 of these for the exact weight being supported......works incredibly well.....as good as an inner tube with just the right amount of air in it: And because there are four of them it is more stable and they are so small you do not even see them. Cheap too! https://www.smalley.com/wave-springs |
Jay,
So far..........yes, that is appropriate. So far, you have only used a couple of footers out of hundreds of possibilities. So, you know very little about footers and isolation and stands. It is.....as you know, a tuning game. So far, your experiments do not do what you want.....more detail and more or the same musicality. Try again grasshopper. Audio is infinite.
I have listened to at least 10 different footers over time and they all sounded different.....and I just scratched the surface. I personally have never liked most hard ball only type things (still points). Still points sound like what you describe. Never tried Critical mass or other expensive jobbies. |
Rather than this artificial ambience multichannel mixing thang you are using......you really need to present natural instruments and voices recorded with a stereo microphone in real space......like Chesky, Mapleshade, Clarity, etc......and add some real jazz in real space....like Jazz at the Pawnshop......and really great classical recordings. This way you can really hear what real instruments sound like......and what real space sounds like. When it is done in a studio with a big mixer.....you really have no idea of what they are doing or what the real instrument or recording is "suppose" to be. Live acoustic instruments in real space shows way more "reality".....rather than just what you prefer.
|
Wow.....so judgmental! So you think that all recordings made in space with two channel microphones are all elevator and funeral music? I cry when I hear a great instrument.....and it could be just one instrument......recorded correctly. Too bad you can only use pop stuff to feel moved. The recording you just presented did not move me much.....either amp. When something is so moving.....you stop evaluating and just sit there with mouth open, heart open, crying, playing along with it, Wowing, etc.
Have you ever heard a choir or small group do gospel? Oh my God....will make the hair stand on your neck. Yes, Chesky even has rock music recorded this way. Music in infinite in its variety.....just like we are. But when evaluating a component for transparency.....then the recordings you use can reveal.....a little....or a lot.....its always your choice. |
There will be no modded Voyager to see Jay’s room (at least for now....maybe someone else will send him one, some day). The amp was sold to another EVS1200 owner in Florida and is already headed that way. So, Viber6 gets the gold medal in a race of one.....he he. |
What I do is give people options for living. The stock Rouge amp is not a good option for living. Simple as that. If you want to find out what class D can do then you need to explore. A stock Rouge amp is just the tip of the Iceberg. Not serious. It does not matter who has better sound.....it matters that it is better (if that is what you want).
Class D should never cost what class A does. You only need a couple of transistors and practically no heatsinks to do 200 Watts. The size and cost of parts will always be less. Yes, you could still do massive linear power supplies....but still the amp will be half the size and weight.
If you make generalizations about class D based on this A/B you are seriously going down the blind man tunnel. Explore.....be adventurous....see the world......it is beautiful.....it is NOT ONE WAY......it is every way. Open your heart....open you mind.....find your authentic self and express it. |
The stock Rouge Audio amp is a shadow of its modified version. The mods I do make the amp way closer to class A. Viber6 knew that and yet he still sent you a stock amp. Viber6 also knew that my modified IceEdge amp (the EVS1200, which would be slightly better than a modded Rouge) was A/Bed with the stock Voyager GaN 350 amp and found wanting. Now, my modded Voyager has been shown to be even better ($3500 total). Also, my modded Purifi VTV amp ($1650 total)....reviewed by 10audio, would sound way, way better than the stock Rouge. I have now updated the mod to the VTV amp and it sounds even better.
So, one stock class D amp does not make Class D sound (they all sound different and everything you do to them changes the sound). I hope Jay will keep receiving some other class D amps that are way better....like the ones above mentioned. Of course, there will be way, way better class D than even the modded Voyager. These will equal the best class A stuff for way, way less money.....you will see....very soon. But this A/B was flawed from the start. Viber6 says the Rouge is neutral (meaning perfect and transparent)........I guess he likes that kind of zippy sound. Like I said, I spent months tweaking the IceEdge modules and its implementation....including mounting the modules on a sheet of soft copper then another sheet of quarter inch thick aluminum and then the chassis.....all of this makes a difference.
What would be really cool is if Phil would bring over his EVS1200 and the modded Voyager he is about to receive to Jay’s place and they could do a four way shoot out with the stock Rouge and the Block Monos (make sure you use good footers under the class D amps....not the stock feet). You could do this in a few hours and then make a video where you both comment on the differences.....none of this silly 3 minute song A/Bs of unknown amps please. Just tell us what you hear. We trust you. You could then play a minute or two of the best of the three versus the Block....for reference. This would be very informational for many.
We have only just begun! Praised be life.....praise be the ever joyous now. |
We all have different desires. The only reason Jay got so many hits is that PEOPLE want to find out whether there are less expensive alternatives.....this is a BIG topic. A/Bing mega priced stuff is very esoteric......I personally find it boring......just another mega buck amp....who cares. Not very many people. Most reading this cannot afford one single thing in Jay’s system. We all want more for less. Please, give us more for less....explore the possibilities....you get more hits, you get more likes, you get more subscriptions, you get more money, you get more loved.....we really want the love.......you will get it playing more with Joe six pack.....not Joseph the wine connoisseur. You don't have to abandon mega priced gear......just start to do what you have just done now and then and you will see your self love growing. The more people you love and serve the bigger the love feeling is....for everyone. |
