Right everybody realizes that, but with the tech available it is what it is, and is appreciated by his viewers.
It’s like if I’m travelling for work and my wife Facetimes me so I can see my kid at bat in his little league game. Of course I realize that I am not actually at the game, sitting in the stands, and of course I realize that there are other things going on in the game that I cannot see through the Facetime feed that I would be able to see if I were there (e.g., how is the right fielder playing him to hit?), but dammit if having that Facebook feed of seeing him hit isn't a hell of a lot better than having my wife merely attempt to describe it to me afterwards. |
My pleasure on the Facetime Little League analogy, WC. I'm hoping you'll answer the two integrated amp questions I messaged you about. I'll keep your responses confidential if it's not something you'd state publicly, just lmk. Thanks! |
Sure, fair point. I have also been a big advocate of having WC state his conclusions and not having others try to color WC’s statements based on their subjective views not having heard the components.
Not many try to do that and if they do most everyone now just ignores them.
Most of us who post our impressions of what we hear in the vids just do it for sake of conversation and don’t try to sway others or take the comparisons as gospel. At least that’s my impression, ymmv |
3 and 1 close.
2 a distant 3rd place, veiled.
3 seemed clearest but perhaps could get little fatiguing so I might pick 1 but would need to hear longer to see if 3 was a 2 minute wonder and still sounded good an hour iater |
You guys (especially Viber) are all forgetting that WC proclaimed the Gryphon Colisseum one of the 3 best amps for the money that he has ever owned, just a couple of months ago. Spent a whole video talking about it and two Luxman in same regard.
The other two were Luxman m900u and L-590axii. Go back and check the video. It’s in 20-25 in terms of the number since first release.
Relating to the class D hypothesis, right, just my hypothesis (well except WC is the one who first raised it, but ok, I followed up saying I agree). I think the dangerous thing is that class D is evolving so quickly, and improving so fast, that it is especially dangerous to ascribe traits anyone thinks apply to a whole class of amps in that environment. But to each their own. |
And while you’re doing that, might want to check to see if they have patents covering what you want to “borrow” |
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I did enjoy the statistical tutorial that psnyder attempted to enlighten Viber with, but predictably it went right over his head, like much of the music does for a first row sitter in a live venue concert.
Ah, that was just too easy….
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WC, can anything $12k or under beat the Luxman class A 590AXii Integrated in your opinion? Separates or INT?
much respect for history vid! Especially loved pics from small apt. Kickass |
Thanks WC. I really meant it about how awesome that vid was too. The reason I liked those small apt photos best is that it (I assume anyway) shows that when you started this awesome journey you were not super wealthy, and lived in a small one bedroom like most of us did at some point in our lives. Respect. |
“baby amp that Viber has”
ricevs comes out firing!
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Prediction for 1 year from now:
I predict that within a year WC will be into vinyl and doing TT setup shootouts. It seems like a natural progression. Can you imagine how crazy this could get if he eventually moves into vinyl?
Remember, a year or two ago he said he had no interest in comparing cables, and now the majority of the video shootouts he puts out are on cable comparisons.
I just think that is probably where he may go down the road, if for no other reason than at this pace with SS amps/pre and cables, he will get to the end of the line soon and there won’t be that much new to discuss (and cable comparisons are ok, but let's be honest the component stuff is much more interesting...). I've watched the video comparing the Luxman separates to the Luxman integrated probably 10 times; the three preamp video about the same; I can pretty much guarantee I won't watch Audience v. Vahalla cables more than once.
Plus the size of the gear is manageable compared to bringing in 400 lb speakers or 150 lb amplifiers.
Anyway, just a guess. Could be way off ....... |
#1. Looks unanimous so far anyway |
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I’ll buy that. He did make a less than glowing comment about Harbeth which appears to be a line he carries. Cool to find dealers that share your preferences and are willing to give honest advice |
There V-man goes again, trying to re-write history. WC has clearly stated that in a head-to-head shootout that the Luxman pre is better than the Dag, but here comes Mr “I’ve never heard any of these in person” telling WC that the Dag preamp is better.
Sad. He just cannot accept WC’s truth. Sad.
Please go watch WC’s verdict on the Luxman, Ayre and Dag again. I know it will be hard for you. Clarity is not most important to WC. Sound quality is, and he says Luxman>>>Dag (even as he admits Dag has better clarity yet still loses).
Deal with it ... and don’t try to rewrite history on WC’s thread. |
Don’t be a Virtualsplainer.
If you’ve never heard a component in person, don’t Vitualsplain to WC or anyone else about what they heard or should think about the component.
Let WC’s conclusions (like Luxman is better than Dag) stand on their own. It’s his thread.
Don’t be V-man the Virtualsplainer
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Would be interesting, WC, if you could provide some opinions on how you feel about the differences between Vivaldi and Rossini. You don’t have them concurrently, but you have everything else. Playing Rossini thru c900u and Gryphon to DAW’s, for example. You have lots of time listening to that with Vivaldi and also several videos that we could go back to.
A second request, now with this new integrated on deck, would be a top-5 or top-3 all time of integrated rankings that you’ve had, regardless of cost.
We know per your recent comments that you consider the Luxman 590axii to beat everything under $12k (int’s and separates) that you’ve had, but that doesn’t necessarily capture the Diablo or D’Agostino or maybe another Pass Labs higher than than the int250 (which you said Luxman 590axii bettered, including better bass control) or now this Accuphase. Maybe there are other integrateds you’ve had also that I’m forgetting as well above $12k???
An observation on the mystery amp: you’ve never been this careful breaking something in with past equipment. Wating 3 more weeks (first week of July) to truly audition??? You’ve scarcely waited three days in the past, let alone 3 weeks (maybe I’m exaggerating but you get idea). The Ref6se didn’t get much time at all and was gone before even fully breaking in according to ARC recommended timeframes. I guess a lot of stuff used so maybe not as much issue.
Is this a loaner where owner is insisting on such a long break-in before debut?? It just seems so out of character for you.... I’ve no problem with it - just making the observation.
Well at least this is what some of the "hundreds of hours" break-in folks have been calling for..... |
No.
WC is 100% clear that the Luxman preamp is better than the Dag. There is no quandry, no matter how much you wish there was. The Luxman is better, according to WC, who has INFINITELY more experience than you with hi-end gear.
I know that doesn't fit your narrative of how the world of audio should shake out. Too bad. You lose on this thread.
Go start your own thread and review the Benchmark and Mytek and that equalizer your used to drone on about (thank you for stopping, btw).
WC is 100% clear that Luxman is better than D'Agostino in that video, and that was the whole purpose of the video.
Enough with the "alternative facts." |
He said in that particular shootout, the whole point of which was to compare three preamps and the only time the Lux and Dag have been directly compared against each other with everything else constant, that that Lux was clearly better than the Dag.
That is all we have to go on officially according to WC. Of course all of the usual caveats apply as always ( room, amp, cables, conditioner, whatever else). With top of line everything else held constant in that shootout, WC was clear that Luxman preamp was best.
Also, V likes to say the Lux is colored or lacks clarity. That cannot be true according to WC because WC states clarity is very important.
And still WC says Lux wins.
maybe there should be a shootout between the two preamps with the Dag amp. If the more expensive Dag preamp could win that matchup on home turf, then we would have an instance in WCs vids of Dag beating Lux.
But so far we do not have anything of the sort according to the only dude in the room. The rest of us are just listening on our stupid iPhones. |
Haha, I'm not advocating for it, just predicting it. I don't have vinyl and don't really have too much interest in it myself, so I see where WC is coming from.
But generally it seems that the highest-of-high-end systems are not complete without vinyl, which is why I think he will end up there.
I'd be happier actually if we got more rotation on the dacs/streamers, but it's his show obviously.
No complaints from me. This is really fun stuff all around. |
Correct, not referring to you. Only to Viber, who is a good guy I think but I really hate when he directly states things opposite of WC, that’s all. |
My only point is let’s not bastardize WC’s conclusions.
I couldn’t care less which brand wins, but I don’t want some wannabe twisting WC’s clear conclusions for his stupid ideological egotrips.
I just wanna know how WC rates the things and the clearer he is, the better. That’s why I really pressed him on the Lux integrated recently, for instance.
He had stated in a video that it was one of three best amps for the money (with m900u and Gryphon). So that told me conclusively according to him that nothing beat it at $9k (it’s msrp).
But then I asked him then specifically if anything (integrated or separates) under $12k could beat it, and he clearly stated “no” according to things he’s owned. I chose $12k because I knew he just had the $12k Pass integrated, and without me even asking for that comparison in his response he stated that he thought Lux better.
That’s valuable info and great starting point for someone in the market at those dollar amounts.
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Oh I see. Okay, sure. That’s fair. Just in that one shootout. Yes, that’s what I meant as well. Didn’t mean to imply broader than that.
But to be also fair, that’s the only such comparison we have.
If there were another where the Lux were clearly beaten by the Dag according to WC I’d obviously have no problem with that.
But to conclude what got me going was V coming on and saying the Dag was WC’s best preamp (go read his words) when in the only shootout they’ve ever been compared in by WC, WC found the Lux the clear winner.
I think we can all agree on that at least. |
Nobody ever claimed that WC or anyone stated the Lux combo was better than the Dag combo. That’s a red herring.
Focus was always on preamp alone as to the three way shootout with other features held constant.
I mentioned in passing that WC declared m900u one of three best ever amps for the money that he has owned, which he clearly stated, but that was only for completeness in making a point about the 590axii.
I never said anything about a combo comparison. |
Funny. If I ever start going back in the bowels of the thread searching for Viber statements to satisfy a curiosity, PLEASE off me!
in all seriousness tho, I never intend to be mean or personal with my posts, although sometimes I’m sure I come off that way. I am admittedly sensitive to V’s rants, I should just ignore (he’d probably say same of me).
In real life I’m super easy to get along with, haha.
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I pay TOO MUCH attention. Should spend less time here, haha - waste too much time on this stuff. But where else are you gonna see someone rifle through equipment like this?? Kinda addicting - |
Uh, picking a winner is kinda the whole point of head to head shootouts, no?
Every time WC gets a new component he hypes the coming shootout and that’s what people want. At least I think.
watch interest in this thread and WC’s vids go way down if he goes all vanilla and doesn’t declare winners and losers. Just says they’re all great and it’s synergy blah blah.
That’s the one thing (direct compares and honest winners/losers) that sets what he’s doing apart from the collective aggregate of what everyone else doing.
So respectfully disagree.
That said, yeah I’ll try to back off on the confrontationalness. Waste of my time anyway
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I liked Gryphon better on most recent vid. Were volume levels equalized? Gryphon sounded little louder but maybe my imagination. Maybe it was just that much more dynamic, as you mentioned. |
I agree on the whuppin just didn’t want to be too hard on the Dag. WC might need to bring in a lightweight so the Dag can finally win a round : ).
Maybe put it against the Levinson multichannel HT amp at bottom of rack? : )
jk. I know I know. They’re all really good |
Regarding Vivaldi direct into Gryphon, if you go back and watch the vid where WC introduces the ARC Ref6 SE, WC states that dac direct to Gryphon was giving too much info ( too much of a good thing he says and it wasn’t ideal) and then he says sound improved from that by adding the ARC preamp to the mix. Basically toned it down in a pleasing way for him. |
It’s really cool that different people hear completely different things in these shootouts. Not surprising either. That’s what makes it fun.
Obviously I was joking in last post before anyone gets bent out of shape.
If there is one brand that seems to have won WC over, at least based on length of ownership and steady use, it seems to be Wilson. For better part of last year between Alexia and DAW he’s been a Wilson man. Almost every video have had Wilson front and center. Sure he’s owned other stuff a long time like those Dynaudio but he never used them in video until ready to move them. Over whole journey don’t remember another brand lasting that long, though before the videos it was harder to track. Maybe Martin Logan was close but haven’t heard anything about them for what seems like years.
I think it’s great. I’m hoping he gets Alexx next. |
What were your impressions of the 800d3 vs daw? Which electronics for demo? What are some speakers you’ve liked previously (to get sense of house sound you favor)? Thx in advance |
Interesting, thanks speedbump. Vandy 3a and BW 800d3 are really different sounding speakers.
many like the Mc and BW synergy |
Well I suppose I was the first to sniff out the April foolery but won’t take too much credit for that. Shame it wasn’t true - well except for the D’agostino part, haha |
Anybody else notice how many Wilson Alexx are all of sudden up for sale now? Dealers moving on from their demo units with the replacement now out. $70-75k seems to be asking price. About $100k less than new Magico M6! |
Here’s my prediction from 12/21/20:
Ron, perhaps. Let's see....
It actually would not surprise me if 2021 is the year WC brings a solid vinyl setup into his room......now wouldn't that shock everyone here.......
He has already had top-of-the-line digital (not currently), and now his speakers and electronics have caught up. Analog seems like a natural progression. Maybe not 2021...2022 probably more likely. He will say he has no interest at this time, and I believe him...........for now.
But once the college player begins dominating there and finding it more and more difficult to find challenges at that level, it is inevitable to look to the pros.
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WC,
Do you ever consider adding one or more top REL subs (G1 Mark or No. 25) to your music system to supplement the DAWs at the low end?
Or is that something you think completely unnecessary and wouldn’t consider?
My dealer displays Alexx and says even they can benefit (marginally, but definitely benefit) from the best Rels.
I know you have a couple of the budget ones for your HT setup, but I don’t remember you ever blending serious subs with your music speakers. |
Wow 4425, that is impressive praise for the Bartok! Glad to hear it as down the road I may aspire to that dac.
Other than Rossini (Which I know is different price point), are there any other dacs in the Bartok’s range you have compared it to (e.g., LUMIN X1, Dave, or others)? |
FYI V Darko has video that compared Chord Dave and Bartok and found Bartok better. Used three sets of headphones to do the comparison.
I’ve seen other forum posts where a user preferred Dave to Bartok, as could be expected with personal preferences. I think a big advantage for Bartok is the it includes streamer where Dave does not
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I’m watching all the videos again in order bc I think I missed some.
What I find really funny (in a good, humorous fun way) is several times WC will say something like, “As you guys know, I’ve had hundreds of amps, back when I started I had ....” and then he’ll pause trying to remember all the budget amps he went thru, usually he’ll probably only remember three or four, and sometimes the list varies a bit, but he ALWAYS, and I mean always mentions the same two. (along with sometimes a couple others).
Trivia: what two amp companies are almost always the first to come to his mind when he thinks back and starts to list the stuff from the early days?
It’s almost like you could make a drinking game out of it. Here it comes, WC gonna list the crappy stuff he started with, you know what’s coming next....always those poor two get singled out. Who has been paying attention?
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You new here? Never noticed you before. Anyway, welcome aboard
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Yeah, not sure why it really matters so much. Nobody here is really confused about what it is. Chill. In a month or so it'll be gone, most likely, maybe sooner. |
WC, have you every tried Richard Gray Power Company conditioners? |
WC Video Trivia Background: So best I can tell from the videos WC’s very first amplifier seems to have been an Onkyo receiver. He mentions that once in awhile.
But far more often in the videos, when he reverts back to remembering the long list of initial amps (just read his initial post to see about 50 of them), he always mentions two brands that pop to the top of his head, and then he kind of trails off and sometimes gets one or two others, but almost always the first two.
One is pretty universally considered an entry level hi-end brand (not like Sony or Pioneer or stuff you’d find at Best Buy, but for hi-end, towards the bottom of that totem pole. The other is not as much, yet WC always lumps it in with the aforementioned lower end brand. Which ones are they?
Trivia answer to come in a few hours ......
Trivia Answer: _____
Regarding the new amps, well you already showed the Merrill Audio awhile ago and we haven’t heard those yet, but I doubt they’d beat Luxman. Hmmm, I will guess (and this is probably way out in left field as you’ve never mentioned it to my knowledge): Coda???? Ah, on second thought, that’s probably not one you’d buy as not mainstream enough. Hmm, new guess: T+A - seems like a brand you could be interested in and now maybe getting mainstream enough that you'd do it |
Trivia Answer: Well, first off, NAD. NAD always gets mentioned. Cool, solid starter audio company.
Then the next one. I can just hear the execs at this company, when they hear WC start into this mode: "Don’t do it! Don’t you do it! Don’t group us with NAD again! Dammit, he did it...again! No respect! What about Outlaw Audio? What about Rotel? What about Parasound? What about PS Audio? Why ya gotta always lump us in? We’re ___, we’re legit!"
And the other company is:...... Bryston! NAD and Bryston! These are the two WC always seems to default to when he lists amps he started with.
Again, I just think it’s funny in a drinking game sorta way. Makes me smile every time. Didn’t really recognize it until I watched all 45 videos again over 3 days and you begin to notice patterns..... In all seriousness, vids keep improving all the time. Damn fine informational service he is providing all of us. |
Yeah, it’s interesting. For sure it is possible to hear differences between the presentations (most of the time - couple I couldn’t, forget which ones). This true even when I am just listening on phone speakers. When I am more serious about it I listen thru nice headphones from macbook (which still is pretty basic).
I guess the big question is (and I don’t know answer), are the differences that we hear and the preferences we develop as a result correlative to what we would pick if we were in the room?
I guess I’d think they would be, right?
To say otherwise, you’d have to conclude that what we decide given the current arrangement would either have to be directly opposite what we’d decide with better playback options, that it’d be not directly opposite but at least contrary to some degree, or possibly that there is no correlation at all (random). Each of these seem less likely than that there would be at least some positive correlation, perhaps even a fairly strong positive correlation.
No?
Just so no confusion, I want to be clear I am not suggesting it is as good as being in the room. Don’t need to have that argument. It’s a matter of convenience. Better question is: is there value to these comparisons with recording and playback limitations? I say yes. And more than just entertainment value. I think some comparative value for making assessments. Note I said, "SOME." Starting point, if you will.
Is that nuts? Not claiming to be an expert, haha. |
Most recent one was Ella Vos: White Noise |
Yeah, that is unfortunate on the youtube thing. They should have some blended solution. I understand the concept of rewarding the artists, as they created the music, but you are also providing content and facilitating by providing the videos (ie, you are value added as well as the music, moreso in fact), so it seems that there should be some blended solution with the compensation.
Alas, I guess that does explain why this was breaking new ground, in an unfortunate sort of way.
Your idea about the two-part video just separating the music from the content seems like the perfect solution. |
I usually set my clock based on the weekly WC Friday-night video. This Thursday morning video has me nervous that we may not get a Friday night video as we almost always do. : )
Hope I'm wrong! |
