my girlfriend & I tried over 10 diff positions

kelly: while listening,its always better with music in the background, lol. Having the music playing while moving speakers only made my point all the more dramatic. In fact in moving the speaker back into place the negative cable had wiggled lose from the binding post (damn audiophiles are their ridiculously large wires!) so yes, at that point the soundstage really COLLAPSED, literally. So in hindsight moving a speaker that is actively playing music might not be the smartest thing to do!

You live and learn...

(BTW, no there are no jpegs)

To kind of go on aroc's story, I was having my little sister listen to my Roger Waters' "Amused to Death" on some Thiels I had years ago, just to confirm what I was hearing, that I wasn't imagining things. It was hear first experience with the soundstage and she was impressed. After hearing some other discs she was like "so how do you know which CD's have this feature and which don't?" I said, "they all do." "ohhhhh, (pause; change of thought) well then what's the point of having two speakers if you're just trying to put sounds back in the middle?" "So the sound can be all over in front of you, move left to right." "ohhhhh, (another pause) I see (kind of nodding her head)"

The other one I found funny was when I was selling a tube amp to an individual over the net. I guess the way I had described the amp had kind of underplayed it based on his experiences/ frame's of reference. He had just gotten a new pair of NHT SuperOne's to go with his receiver (I didn't know this was what he was upgrading from) and even then, once on the phone, he started describing the soundstage of these NHT's like the reviews you'd read of the next $20,000 superspeaker. The way he had used up his words, I guess if he heard some real high-end speakers, he wouldn't have anything to say. And all the while I had been describing the amp as a "decent little amp." So I lost the sale cause I think someone else fluffed the language a little better with there product. This is why I'm not a big fan of using up gushing adjectives to decribe stuff. Its really hard to describe sound and you'll see the reviewers claim this speaker is the new reference and next year there's another that gets the same print. Its kind of like crying wolf. Stereophile gave the Wilson X-1's product of the year in '95 and then the next issue in a face-off between the Grande Utopia the reviewer said he like the utopia better (just one or two months later). Not to mention there were lots of other $60k+ speakers out there that they had never even reviewed. Or over on planethifi the Merlin floorstander were described as "some have called nearly perfect" and then the big Von Schwiekerts are "a world beating speaker systems." Or one review of the MBL radialstrahlers had decided that with these speakers, for once the electronics were the weakest link. I was like ya right, a good plasma driver runnin' 1000hz on up would certianly give them a run for their money, and they've been around 50 years. After awhile it all kind of reads the same. This is why I like measurements with discussion about them. I kind of wandered.

aroc: so, did you try these positions whilst listening or between speaker placement trials? are jpegs available?

-cfb

Of course if all in one night, that is quite amazing:)

You're right, fine tuning placement yields great results. Lots of people like to use those little laser pens to get it precise. Take it easy tonight, don't want no audiophile buddies getting too sore.

Hi Justlisten; I too was expecting something "different" on reading your salacious intro., but now that I've cooled down, congrats on the new speakers. And I agree about 110% that a huge part of good quality music has to do with speaker placement. Even modestly priced (but decent) speakers can sound excellent when properly set-up and located in the room.

For the new or uninitiated, this fact needs to be periodically brought up. Cheers. Craig.

Man is that ever blantant false advertising or what? LOL. I had my little brother over the other week and he brought over some CDs since he wanted to listen to my system. He was so amazed at the soundstage, even on my modest system. then after several hours (I hate to bug someone during heavy listening) I moved the right speaker. soundstage collapsed. Then I slowly moved the speaker back. He could not believe the effect speaker placement had. Now he's very interested it getting something a little better for his apartment! Ladies and gentlemen we may have a new convert!

A little back story commentary:

I had twice in the past (he has a 5.1 setup) moved his front speakers out from the wall, toed them in, to create a somewhat coherent soundstage and reduce the booming bass. And they set like that for a couple days before his roommate or girlfriend moves them back against the wall. (Why would you want to have them out in the room like that? It's stupid! - ) I don't think anyone (not even my brother) knew what a difference I was trying to make. Not one would notice the difference. Though I bet my brother could tell, now.

It was the same way for me, too. I didn't understand what a "soundstage" was until I heard a friend's system with Acoustat model 3s (ESLs). I had heard the system when he first got it, but was only mildly impressed. But once he had them set up "just right", it was almost a religous experience. "WTF??!? So THAT'S what a soundstage is!" Clouds parted, veils lifted, angels sounded trumpets. Alleluhja, praise the Lord! So that's WHY we have two channels, LOL.

I then spent the next three days getting my speakers placed just right, so they disappear and the 3D image immerges. If you had told me I had just dropped $1k in my system (or even $3k), I would have believed you. The whole experience was just THAT much better.

speaker placement = best tweak money can't buy. :-)