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Music Server Setup: Airport Express or Extreme?

I’m expanding my audio system to include other rooms in my apartment.

I’d appreciate some advice as to what the Apple Airport Base Station, Extreme or Express (or both together), are the best way to integrate this. I’ve been researching and considering this for a couple years, but it is time to harden my plans and ask specific questions. One area of confusion is with various Apple Airport Base Station models: I’ve read many conflicting reports regarding reliability/functionality benefits between the Express and the Extreme, so I’m a little confused.
I am on a tight budget now. I also want the Airport to meet my general computer networking functions as well as my audio needs.

Here’s the lay of the land:

I live in a multiple story pre-WWII residential apartment building in NYC (I mention this in case building construction effects wireless communications: my walls are plaster/lathe vs. sheetrock; ceilings are plaster and wire lathe; the wiring in the building is from an era gone by, so no contemporary in-wall network cabling, in fact most room only have 2 electrical outlets). With my laptop, I am able to connect with other wireless networks in the building, depending on location. My Internet connection is via DSL. There is a cable installed in my apartment but I do not subscribe.

I want to play music potentially into two other Satellite Rooms in addition to my main listening room: one of those Satellite Rooms shares a common wall with my listening room (perhaps I can just run speaker wire through this wall to power a 2nd pair of efficient speakers?). Another room is about 30 feet away from my listening room.

My main listening room:
Includes my analogue music rig and my desktop computer system.

Analogue Hardware:
I have a vintage Yamaha Integrated Amp, Meridian 508.20 CD player, Polk Lsi9 speakers, Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable, Kimber Kables.
Integrated Amp has 2 pairs of speaker outputs (one pair are unused).

Computer Hardware:
My main computer is an Apple G5 desktop (Dual 2.3 GHz PowerPC w/4.5 GB memory). NO airport card is installed in the computer.

My laptop is an Apple G4 iBook (1.33 GHz PowerPC G4, 768 MB memory, w/60GB internal hard drive). The laptop has an Airport Extreme internal card installed.

I have a dedicated external 500GB HD to store my iTunes music library (which is backed up to a second dedicated external 500GB HD). My digital music files are mostly Apple Lossless (with duplicates in AAC and MP3 files for downloading to my iPod).

My music server as it has been configured for the past 2 years or is an afterthought. It plays only in my main listening room and consists of the External HD (used to hold my music library) that is connected to my Apple G5 desktop computer with just an RCA splitter cable going from the G5’s audio-out to an input on my integrated amp. The Apple G5 runs iTunes. No aftermarket DAC, no remote controls. I control iTunes from the G5 desktop directly with a wired keyboard/mouse.

I want to do 3 things and in separate stages:
Stage 1) I want to pipe music into one other room, Satellite Room #1 (my bedroom). Satellite Room #1 shares a common wall with the main listening room and if need be I could run speaker wires through the wall to power a second pair of efficient speakers. ‘Background’ quality audio will be sufficient for now: I will upgrade the audio quality later as finances allow. I will only ever need to listen to music in ONE room at any given time.
Stage 2) add ability to pipe music into Satellite Room #2 (the living room). ‘Background’ quality audio will be sufficient for now.
Stage 3) Upgrade the DAC.

Remote Control Considerations:
I want to be able to control the music server remotely from any of the Satellite Rooms. For example, I would like the iBook laptop with its internal Airport Extreme card to wirelessly control iTunes (running on my G5) from other Satellite Room locations. What sort of Airport Base Station do I need to purchase: Extreme or Express? Also, does the G5 need its own INTERNAL Airport Card installed in ADDITION to the Airport Base Station?

Eventually, I would like to introduce a pair of speakers into Satellite Room #2 and have the same sort of remote control over the music server with the portable iBook as I have in Satellite Room #1. I expect for the Satellite Room #2, I will need to purchase a second amp in addition to speakers…but what other hardware would I need to get music into the third room? Or how best to realize this on a budget?

I may purchase an iPhone in the near future. I understand that iPhones (or even generic remote control devices) can remotely control the iTunes music server. If so, this would free up the iBook laptop in the event I need a second computer to run the system in one of the Satellite Rooms.

DAC Upgrade:
I’ve read on here much over the past couple years about DACs. Presently, I am using the internal Apple DAC built into the G5 desktop computer. I have read extensively about its limitations and after I get Satellite Room #1 operative, I will experiment with a budget DAC upgrade: maybe a Gary Nixon unit or a Benchmark USB. If an updated DAC sounds pleasing, I’ll sell the CDP and convert my system sources to only a digital music server and vinyl.

***I also want to be able to have the iBook and the G5 wirelessly networked together for general (non-audio) computing and file sharing as well, bear that in mind when recommending an Apple Airport model.

Thanks a bunch for any input or suggestions.

-Lovegasoline
lovegasoline

Showing 5 responses by rbstehno

rbstehno
1,401 posts
 
something lost in the translation. i never mentioned about a dac in the g5. imo, there is no dac that is worth anything that resides in a computer. jax2, i think you are confused on what a wap device is. it is a device outside of the computer. you go over and over about the crappy g5 wireless card. great, don't use it. i am saying don't use it, use a wap device to create a wireless network in your house. very simple to do. ignore the apple card. ignore the wireless functionality of the g5 tower. create a little network using a 5 port hub and a wap and you can connect all the wireless devices to this network. you can also use a wireless router. there are many different choices. just get over the g5 wireless option.

you missed my point about what the AE, squeezebox, and transporter do. they all receive wired or wireless signals from a transmitting source of some sort. they all have network capabilities that resend data packets if any packet gets corrupted. the ae and squeezebox devices do the same functionality, the transporter adds a dac to the picture. you can't say that the dac in your $2000 transporter sounds the same as a $10k esoteric dac just because you might use the same chip (the esoteric dacs i looked at don't use the akm chipset). There is a big difference.
rbstehno
1,401 posts
 
jax2- let me correct some of your statements. 1) you don't need a squeezebox or transporter to get remote control capabilities from the mac. actually you are wasting your $$$ if you get the squeezebox and you could do better by getting different equipment for the same $$$ as the transporter. 2) you don't want to use the monster toslink to rca cable since you will not get the quality of the music that you want. 3) you don't need to use only the toslink connection to the dac.

here is a recommendation that i have setup for many people (my self included) that preferred this setup to a sooloos or qsonix setup (sounds better and saves thousands of $$$).
* mac computer - any mac will do - it can be your workhorse mac if needed
* airport express - wired or wireless
* good quality toslink cable with toslink adapter with a longer stem
* good quality jitter reduction device (toslink from computer or AE)
* good quality digital coax cable (or aes if equipped)
* good quality external dac with input connections that match the jitter device
* good quality cables from the dac into the preamp

by using a jitter device, you will be cleaning up the signal before it reaches the dac. also, by using this setup, you can go out and buy the best dac that you can afford. you are not limited to only toslink or usb connections. your best dacs don't use usb right now anyway and coax is a preferred connection.

for remote control, don't limit yourself to a couple lines on a squeezebox or transporter. if you use the above setup, all you need is an iphone or ipod touch to connect to the mac and pick the playlists/songs/albums/internet radio stations that are linked on your mac. these devices give you a graphical user interface with coverflow/album artwork/etc... all for free. apple has the remote app you can download.
rbstehno
1,401 posts
 
jax2- the only reason i said what i said is because your initial reply indicated that the poster "needed" to do certain things. IMO, there are much better alternatives to what you stated. let me clarify:

to get wireless, there are many options: wireless card in a tower, wireless built in the new macs, airport extreme or any other wireless router, or even a WAP (wireless access point). i use the wap myself. on craigslist or ebay, you can pick them up for around $10. the wap ties into your network (if you don't have 1, you can create 1 using a small 5 port 10/100/1000 hub). you can get these for the cheap, i can even sell you 1 for $10.

as for the squeezebox or transporter, the screen interface is terrible. i have a friend who sells them. the squeezebox doesn't do anything more than the AE but costs $200 more. the transporter is much better than the squeezebox but for the $$$, you can do better. (also, i don't think this unit uses the same dac as in the esorteric units).

i agree with you when using a connection from the AE/squeezebox to the preamp is terrible. and i mentioned in my thread above the option of using a coax or aes cable into an external dac is using a jitter device between a computer and the dac. the optical cable decouples the computer or AE device and the jitter device allows you to use the better cable connections to a dac. also, until they come out with a dac that has comparable quality using a usb connection compared to coax, i would stay away from usb. the new audio research dac7 might be the 1st.

as for remote control of the music, using the iphone or ipod touch blows away using a squeezebox or transporter. you get a full graphical user interface, album art, page of info on all songs/albums/artists with easy scrolling. all for free when using these devices and itunes on a mac.

also, when hooking up a second pair of speakers in a remote room from 1 receiver using an old yamaha, how are you going to control the source, output levels, speaker switching? depending on how old it is, you probably can't. if it has a multi-source and multi-zone capabilities, then it would work. also, when hooking up multiple speakers to 1 receiver that the amp compensates for the impedance that is presented to the receiver. the impedance could drop in half and that could be a bad thing.
rbstehno
1,401 posts
 
i do know dan, been over to his house before to listen to his modified dvp9000es players when i was thinking of modifying mine a few years ago. i have not heard his modified TP, but i have listened to his preamps and cd/sacd modified players.
rbstehno
1,401 posts
 
the AE hookup is not different than what you get with the transporter. all the AE does is to accept a signal wired or wireless from a central computer. that is exactly what the transporter does. so if you think that the AE device is inferior to the transporter in that function, you need to explain why because they both accept "bits" from the network.

like i said above, the output straight from an AE device into a preamp sounds like crap. also, going from an AE device into an external dac sounds better (no different than the transporter device if the dacs are equal). again, there is no difference on what the 2 setups accomplish, it all matters what type of equipment you are using.

i agree with you on the transporter sounds better than an AE device going straight to a preamp. i don't agree with you on that the transporter is the end all setup for critical listening. i also disagree with you on that you can't use an AE device for critical listening.

you also missed what i said in my thread regarding wireless setups and the AE toslink.

get a good WAP device to send wireless signals throughout your home. if you think the card on a g5 mac is crap, great, use a wap device. i got a motorola wap on craigslist for $10 that all my computers, iphone, and ipod touch communicate thru, 3 story house, and in my backyard.

as for the AE/toslink to a dac, you missed my mention of the jitter device. you go "toslink" from the AE to the jitter device, then use "coax" or "aes" or "glass" to your external dac depending on what inputs and outputs you have on the jitter and dac devices. also, the toslink cable decouples the AE or computer from indicing any noise from these devices to the jitter/dac.

also, looking at the esoteric dacs, they use either burr brown or analog devices dacs in there standalone dacs. i really don't look at internal dacs since external dacs are much better.
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