That's the spirit, David! Often two copies in my case -- but can do better. Recently discovered I have 4 copies pf Haendel's Messiah. Same performance, different issues.
Things get worse with multiple performances (& copies) of the same piece... 14 versions of Beethoven's Violin Concerto.
While I never used to do this in my foolish youth (vinyl was always around, just go to the record store and pick up another copy if you scratched your copy), I have been doing this for years with the reissues, figuring that they won't be around forever and, even if I never wear out my originals, I'll have collectors' items. Look at what Chad is charging for the out of print Classic reissues! I don't do this as much with used vinyl unless I really like the record. I think Harry Pearson used to write about picking up an HP 6-pack, i.e., 6 copies of the same record. Certainly a wise strategy in this day and age, in my view.
Oh yes,...there are many of us out there. Sometimes there
is reason behind this... There are sound quality differences
between different pressings from different countries...or
"Audiophile(or is that pile)" pressings. Also, I have had
earlier pressings from major US companies sounding quite
a bit better than latter pressings. But who cares as to
I've bought several record collections from people and have wound up with multiple copies of many things for this reason. I also purposely buy multiple copies of albums I really like (same label and everything), in the event that something happens to the first one (or two). I don't, on the other hand own any multiple copies of CDs. If I ever wind up with 2, I give one away.
When I played vinyl in the 70's and 80's I used to buy multiples of all of my favorite albums. The most for any single one being 12 copies (plus I already had one) of It's a Beautiful Day "Marrying Maiden" (sp). When I sold off my vinyl in the mid 80's I had 8 of these left still in the shrink wrap and they went for $40-$50 each. My original cost was under $36 for the dozen.
Ive got the fever here...Promos, Uk issues, Japanese issues!!!!,Russian issues, South Amercian issues, Clear Vinyl, coloured vinyl, limited editions...you get the picture. I am fortunate to live in an area where record stores are plenty and in most cases vinyl is cheap. So whats wrong with 5 copies of a Ricky Lee Jones record when you get them for $4 each?
Oh yeah, I own 5 copies of Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon", 4 copies of Paul Simon's "Graceland", 3 copies of Steely Dan's "Aja", 3 copies of Bruce Sprinsteen's "Born to Run", etc...I keep multiple copies around cuz I figure when one gets worn out I have back up copies, and I also own three turntables in three distinct systems so having extra copies comes in handy. The value on the open market of my vinyl really hasn't mattered too much to me since I bought it all purely for my own enjoyment, but I can see how people would be willing to pay a pretty penny for records. Analog may be a little finicky, but certainly worth the effort to my ears.
I am guilty of this also. I own 4 copies of Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon" (Japanese, British, EMI, Mobile Fidelity).I also have 4 copies of The Who "Who's Next" (Japanese, British, German, MCA reissue). Each of the LP's has a different sound to it. I also own multiple copies of many other LP's. Is this a sicknes? My wife thinks it is, but I am having FUN!
Whatjd says is of utmost importance. The basic record collector rules/guidelines for audiophiles are as follows:
1)Always try to identify first issues/labels
2)Always purchase the copy in the Home country of the master tape (and forget about those wonderful Japanese pressings with the perfect and quiet surfaces and the better covers. Magnificent work, but almost always inferior sound compared to original country of origin issues. wasted alot of money on these. Too bad cause the workmanship was none finer!)
3)There are exceptions, but remember reissues are usually Not as good as originals. Many factors that include Tape deterioration and SS electronics in the case of pre 64 music.
4) Audiophile issues from Mobile Fidelity usually are Not as good as original issues either, UNLESS the mastering was botched up to begin with (Like most A&M Record 70s pop releases)
Sorry if I drifted off thread.
Finally, Yes I also snag insurance copies when I see the correct combiations listed above......Thanks for listening...Frank
I also am guilty. Especially with used LPS. You never know whether it sounds a little better than the other 9 you own. I once bought a Copy of Pines and Fountains of Rome (Reiner, RCA shaded dog) for $10. . It looked to have some small surface marks but even though I already owned 3 copies of the same LP it was the 1s1s (first) pressing and I figured what the hey. Once I got it home and cleaned it on the VPI we sat down for a listen. My wife wept. I choked up it was so outstanding. The shear emotion of the recording had been fully revealed.
It is the constant search for the music that moves us. And once we find it we do not want to live without it.
That's why I think we buy multiple copies.
Khawk, And that 1S/1S Pines sounds waaaay better than the Classic Reissue. Too bad, Had they used Doug at The Mastering Lab,I am sure he would have equalled and most likely surpassed the 1S/1S Original,since the tapes were in such good shape. Once again Tube vs SS from I to O. mastering!!........Frank
Frank, you are correct. If they treated the masters like treasures and had used Doug we probably would have ended up with an LP that bettered the 1s1s pressing. I am just thankful that there are reissues at all. I am also thankful that I have as many RCas and VICS(s) as I do. My wife collects Reiners.
Khawk, I believe that there are very few of those 1S/1S stampers around, as they were too dynamic for almost all of the record playing systems of the day. The lowest number I think RCA released in bulk (and which I found) was a 10S/10S, if I recall correctly (and I like the Classic better than that pressing, tubes or no tubes, because RCA must have done some compression of the dynamics to keep the styli of the day in the grooves)--Frap, do you remember? In any event, you have a true rarity, guard it with your life!
My wife wants to be buried with it. I told her to forget it; I was going to sell it to pay for her funeral. My youngest son (24) will probably get it when we are gone. He knows what it is. Funny thing, we went into the city on a Wednesday evening with the kids (it was the only time) to a favorite used record store. We ate next door and then proceeded to find it(Pines)and a first pressing of Merc Bailalaika Favorites ($25.) and two Vics plum labels (new)unopened $12. each and two soria series RCA shaded dogs (both mint) (Heifetz). It was a good night. Whenever we play any of the records my wife just sits there and smiles remembering our 10 year old going through the shaded dogs and pulling out ones he new she was looking for. (He has a degree in Music).
Khawk2 -- WHAT Heifetz? I'm drooling... Not Beethoven Violin Concerto / Brahms ditto -- mint???
I've been out of vinyl collecting for about ten years but still have a MoFi "Abbey Road", some Beatles and Moody Blues british imports, Japanese Phillips classical stuff, etc. Are these worth anything? Thanks, Don
gregm, yes. Pretty remarkable, huh. He is my wife's favorite Violinist and although her favorite is Tchaikovsky (sp) Violin Concerto OP 35 is was not recorded as well as the Brahms or Beethoven.
Gregm. LSC-1903 and 1992.
Gentlemen, you are not alone. I grab what I can get of copies of LP's which I like or which I feel will be a good investment in time.
Thank you so much for the responses to my first post. I was extremely pleased with the content, and especially the quantity of responses.
I have canceled my appointment to the Doctor, and quite frankly I am getting tired of him patting me on the head saying " There, There " as I am weeping into my hands.
I am dead chuffed to know that there are " Others " like me out there.
David: Yes, you are not alone. Now, where should we send our respective bills for this therapy?
I have many reissue CDs of things I have on LP.
Sugarbrie, I think having reissue CDs of the lps you own makes good sense. We have several (6) systems and only the main system is analog based. We respect the lps and do not like to mistreat them so lp listening has become somewhat of a serene experience in our home. My wife listens to the cds when she cleans ( she would never put on an lp and just leave it) and for casual listening in the computer room or listening in the bedroom we listen to the tuner or cd player. I have a SET system set up in a listening room upstairs and am tempted to buy a second turntable. We'll see. I also think that having cd reissues of your favorites is smart because you can play them in the car. I have a few friends who have bought burners and they all seem to be happy with the results.
Khawk, Sugarbrie, I also try to purchase on CD, everything I like on LP. Sometimes it works(with decent sound), and sometimes it does'nt. But sometimes it surpasses the LP, as in the case of the incredible(musically) Deutch Grammophone DG catalog. I consistently hear better sound on the CDs than even the original pressings.
Don, the MOFI "Abbey Road" was done pretty well. It does have value but not big money.
RCprince, I just knew someone would bring up the "compression" issue on RCA, and ,of course, you are right about the bass dynamics being better on Classic. My issue is with the top stridency on strings compared with the original. I am sure this was a function of Bernie Grundman's Studer mastering deck, even though the electronics (preamp), I know were completely custom and were not Studer. The original all tube mastering at TML, would have given us a miracle of sound I am sure........Frank
Sometimes it also takes multiple attempts to find a really good pressing, even if it is the most desired pressing.
Frank, you're definitely right about the sweeter highs on the originals vs. the Classics. Part of this is offset by the better bass, dynamics, transparency and getting closer to the master tape, but yeah, I would not have minded tube mastering either, we could have had the best of both worlds. In the end, as I believe you said, we should be happy that they have made these reissues, they bring a new and bit different view to a great series of recordings.
There is a sticker on Bernie Grundman's mastering deck (I am not kidding here, it really exists) that says: "Use a transistor--go to jail. It's the law." It is meant in jest. Otherwise Classic Records would have to bail him out from serving time. How long a sentence would Frap and Rcprince give him?
None, really, Slawney--I'm thankful for the excellent job he did. And I can sweeten the strings a little with a choice of tubes in the MC stage of my preamp. So I guess I'm more than happy with the way things are; the greatness of the performances and recordings shines through, tubes or transistors. For those who wonder what the difference might have been, though, two interesting possibilities: 1. My recollection is that Analog Productions a few years ago did a reissue of a jazz album (don't recall which) which Bernie had originally mastered, but for which they had Doug Sax do the mastering. In response to protests, they did an alternate version of the same record, same tapes, with Bernie doing the remastering. I have not listened to either, but it might be interesting to compare. 2. Classic did a DAD of the old Ravel Vox Box with the Minnesota Orchestra (I assume Bernie was involved in the remastering, but am not sure), which I have, and which Analog Productions released both as a CD and vinyl record mastered by Mr. Sax. There is a definite bloom and ripeness in the Sax-mastered discs you don't get on the Classic, although in many respects I prefer the Classic version for its neutrality and better transparency, particularly in the lower frequencies (except for the damned reversed channels from track to track--maddening!). Apples and oranges, I know, due to the formats, but in terms of tonal balance the AP versions sound a little colored to me. Wouldn't want to live without either, though!
Slawney, I'm not anti SS as you seem to think. Overall, I feel that classic did a good job with the transfers. The bass and dynamics are superior, as mentioned previously. The "compression" is gone, the overall sound is cleaner, but more sterile as well. The top end is more extended. Some very good improvements. But, the 3D and smoothness of the strings on the originals is compromised on the reissue.
Since the recording was originally mastered all tube, it only makes sense to reissue it that way (RCA themselves thought it best too, on the tape deck at least when thier CD issues were released). I can think of no other reason for the "falsification" of the violins.
Since these Reiner issues are arguably the most important musically and sonically in the Stereo era, I wished for TML's all tube chain, to mimmick the way it was done in 58.
Let it be known that in no way would these recordings have reached exhaulted status SONICALLY, without the original all tube chain used in the birth of stereo.......Frank
Khawk2, I just recovered from a severe attack of choking after reading yr post. BTW, is that the 50's recording of Tchaikovski's violin c. w/ F. Reiner???
Detlof, I'm going back to lithium....
Gregm, Tschaikowsky: Violin Concerto in D, Op. 35 Heifetz/ Fritz Reiner Chicago Symphony Orch. LSC-2129 . (1958) Not the best recording but certainly according to my wife the best performance of the piece. Heifetz makes the violin weep in this piece. This was the first new classical album we ever bought (okay, we bought it at a discount store for $2.99). You can hear Symphony Hall. I think that's one of the elements that make all these RCAs so special is that you can hear the acoustic space. My wife just fell head over heals in love with this piece. Go figure.
Don't choke . Just keep looking. My wife took the above mentioned son (this time he was about 16) to a thrift store in a small town near us. She found 24 (yes that's 24) shaded dogs, 12 White dogs, 8 bluebacks, and they were 50cents each. Most records were very good plus , a few were mintt minus. They were all very playable. Her biggist problem when she finds herself in this situation is to try and hide the joy and stay calm. We only had a few of the records she found so she was very happy. She buys them to play them, not for profit. I took her to the Hi Fi show in NY last weekend and with all the vinyl there I think she only bought 6 records. She says it's just not the same. She's a real piece of work.
Thanks, Khawk! Indeed, I have been looking for years..! You wouldn't consider sharing your Significant Other and son, I suppose??? The team has very rare title-finding skills:-)
BTW, for T's violin concerto, I can also recommend: D Oistrakh / Moscow Sate Phil./G Rozhdestvensky (1968, Melodia).
Regards to all!
Thanks, Gregm, for the recommendation. She has added it to her list.
Great thread, Djohn.
Gregm, you don't need lithium, just play the Oistrakh. I suppose you know about "Mikrokosmos" as a source of Lp's from beyond the curtain? They used to be based in Budapest, now in Toronto. If not, mail Peter Fülöp at email@example.com and say Detlof sent you. Cheers,
Detlof, thank you! But how on EARTH did you unearth Fulop Peter! I used to live in Mitteleuropa; it was only through a Hungarian friend I heard about him (and subsequently lost trace).
I will certainly mail; thank you most sincerely for allowing your personal recommendation.
Well Greg, what a great pleasure. My late wife was Hungarian and when in Budapest I one day discovered his shop at Dob Utca in the old ghetto of B. We soon truly befriended each other and hence did not lose touch, after he and his family emigrated to Toronto. He still owns the shop in Budapest. So if you should be back in "Mitteleuropa", it is stocked with good and very fairly priced stuff. Its about a ten minutes walk from Vacy ut, near the main synagogue. Best regards, KD
Detlof, my firm used to have an office in Budapest, wish I'd known of the shop, I would've visited. Since I'm going to be in Prague and Vienna the beginning of June, any suggestions on good record stores there?
Rcprince, I am so sorry not to be able to help you along. I used Vienna solely as a stopover on my way to Budapest and Prague is still on my "to visit" list. However, if you are not on a too tight a schedule, Budapest is only about 250km from Vienna, as you know and a wonderful city to visit anyway.
Rcprince, if do you hit B/pest, there used to be a main outlet for Hungaroton at a central square (called Vorosmarty) diagonally opposite a famous coffee & pastry shop re-named Gerbeaud. All this is very close to Dob utca (=street) Detlof refers to. At Gerbeaud's, intellectuals used to order their coffee in the morning, take a sip and read the papers, leave to do business, return and find their table and coffee still waiting! Great cake (called "russian") and Montblanc.
I could also suggest you stay at the Intercon: it faces the Danube and is at walking distance from a commercial area (Vacy utca, as Detlof notes)...
I thoroughly agree with Detlof, you'll have a very nice time...
Detlof, I lived in B/pest for 6 yrs as a teenager... the world is, indeed, a small place!!! Udvozlom kedves uram!
Pls excuse me, Djohn & others, for being off topic (This takes me back in time).
Thanks for your tolerance.
Thank you, gentlemen. Sorry for going off topic as well.
My apologies as well, but then its also just that, what makes this place here so exiting... and Greg, this outlet you mention at Vorosmarty still exists in so far, in that they carry a very large, international collection of CD's nowadays.
OK, I guess I am not the only crazy one here. But, isn't the idea that we want the best condition and earliest pressing? I keep rebuying the same records, but, fortunately, I can get most of my money back by selling the ones I am not keeping. The more I like the record, the more copies I keep. Anthemn of the Sun (Grateful Dead) rates 8 copies of the W7 label. It goes on and on. Does anyone's wife or girfriend understand this? My girlfriend does to a minor extent. OK, it's just a hoarding disorder.