Have Furtech DeMag great unit improves LPs ,cd and cables a great upgrade!!
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Moto man wrote,
"What does this amazing product do? It demagnetizes your vinyl, because your vinyl contains carbon and carbon attracts a magnetic charge. That magnetic charge apparently adds "a layer of grit, glare, and haze."
Not wishing to judge too quickly but it appears, at least based on the results of a preliminary Google search, that the Carbon atoms found in the chemical Polyvinyl Chloride - the main ingredient found in LPs - are actually not magnetizable. So perhaps some other theory might be offered to explain why demagnetization of LPs and CDs works.
From the Ferro Carbon Project website:
"To date, the observation of ferromagnetic properties has only been observed as a small fraction of some carbon samples. Pure carbon can take many forms, ranging from graphite to diamond, alongside more recently discovered forms such as the fullerenes � C60. Ferromagnetic behaviour has so far been observed in pressure and light polymerised fullerenes and irradiated graphite, amongst others."
Carbon black impurities is what the Absolute Sound press lazily tries to blame for magnetism.
The fact is that pigment added to the plastic during the manufacturing process is the culprit. The minute amount of ferrous material in the pigment causes LPs to become magnetized. Testing at the Tokyo Nanotechnology center with a IHI Gauss meter showed that after an LP was treated with the deMag the magnetic field of the LP was lowered from 620~630 nT to 572~582 nT (nanotesla: a unit of magnetic field strength,1 Tesla = 10,000 gauss)Earth's magnetic field is 50,000nT.
From IARC monographs
Carbon black that is made from high-sulfur feedstocks frequently contains detectable quantities of extractable aromatic compounds that contain sulfur such as benzothiophene derivatives (Lee & Hites, 1976; Nishioka et al., 1986). Trace amounts of a variety of inorganic elements (e.g. calcium, copper, iron, manganese, potassium, lead, arsenic, chromium, selenium and zinc) have also been identified in some analyses of samples of carbon black (Collyer, 1975; Sokhi et al., 1990; Cabot Corporation, 2005b)I am skeptical about how trace ferrous metals can get and stay magnetized over a record, or have a geometry that creates a magnetic field large enough to disturb a cartridge. That may be reflected in the nanotesla scale numbers.
The easiest criticism is the price of the unit, which is product of marketing. Consumer behavior is what makes audiogon interesting in lew of actually learning about audio.
"I’m not sure how trace ferrous metals can get and stay magnetized over a record, or have a geometry that creates a magnetic field large enough to disturb a cartridge. That may be reflected in the nanotesla numbers."
Well, exactly. By the same token, are we really supposed to take in on face value that trace elements of some ferrous material somehow managed to wind up either in the atrociously thin metal layer of the CD (which one imagines is a rather pure metal or metal alloy or even 24 carat gold) or in the ink used for graphics on the CD label are sufficiently magnetizable to have the slightest chance of affecting the path of the CD laser or discombobulate some electric circuit or other in the vicinity?
I actually trust industry experts like Fremer, and many others, who did comparisons of demagnetized vs non-demag. and actually bought one for themselves.
And my rig costs more than $100K, so why not?
The demagnetizer has been tested and reviewed many many many times. Google it. I have not read a bad review...other than from whiners who have never actually tried one.
The thing I find humorous in these pure opinionated rants, is the use of the term
"snake oil " and it's context.
The original Elixir had no snake oil in it and that was the legal issue raised. Lost in all the out of context use of the coined phrase " snake oil " is the FACT the product worked exactly as it was claimed to have.
You might want to try another anolgy that actually fits your opinion that something doesn't work regardless of not offering any acknowledged experience with it......
This is an excerpt from the Furutech website. I own the demag and I think it works great.
Hand-Wound and 7 Miles Long!
One of the key elements behind the universal praise, not to mention the unit’s size and price, is its high performance hand-wound copper wire field-generating coil. It’s a full 7 miles long (!) and projects a powerful magnetic field achieving a uniformity of effectiveness across the entire surface of the LP.
Furutech theorizes that in magnetic terms both LPs and optical media are varyingly magnetized across their surface at different potentials as well, and proposes that a powerfully-thrown field that ramps up, holds, then ramps down demagnetizes the entire surface to zero potential.
If you want to do a "test run" for very little money, pick up an old reel-to-reel tape demagnetizer on eBay (VERY powerful and more than 7 miles of windings ;~) Place your LP on the spindle, apply power, and rotate two or more times, flip, and repeat.
It's like what my bubbie said about chicken soup: "It couldn't hurt!"
Again more info from the Furutech website.
"Other so-called demagnetizers on the market including specialist products, head erasers, bulk erasers, etc. don’t even completely demagnetize your discs. Rather, some of them actually induce magnetic fields! Take spinning demagnetizers, for example. After the disc stops, a section of the CD is left exposed to the fixed magnet below. Because Furutech’s deMag Ring Magnet
Technology ramps power up then down again, all residual magnetism is completely removed."
Yes, I know I’m the last person anyone would expect to throw a damp towel on the proceedings but in order for an object to be demagnetized it must obviously be magnetized in the first place and in order to be magnetized it must be magnetizable, no? Furutech theorizes the surface is magnetized, but what is there to become magnetized to begin with? The ink? The ferrous impurities in the vinyl, if any? The carbon atoms in polyvinyl chloride? I don’t think so. I’m not buying it. As far as putting a magnetic field back on the LP or CD using a handheld demag, as Furutech warns, of course that is quite possible - if the demag is used improperly.
Now, this is not at all to say that demagnetizing LPs and CDs doesn’t work. My argument is directed only towards the theories floated around on how demagnetizers work. Anyone who has an alternative theory feel free to chime in.
Like you, Motorman - and many others in our community - I abhor snake oil products and scams. If someone found and identified a scam and educates other community members - I think that is a good thing. But simply stating a piece of equipment is a scam without providing any proof is counter productive - doesn't even amuse.
You should not confuse snake oil products or scams with what seems to be simply overpriced. I believe in capitalism - it healthy! If a product in demand can be made less expensive and sold for less - then another manufacturer will sooner or later offer that alternative and create a healthy competitive environment. Remember the first "Quartz Watch"? It was exclusive and expensive - at it's time. Not anymore today.
I bought a used Demag a cople of months ago for $900 on eBay. I am an engineer and I was sceptical about Furutech's claims. I decided to give it a try since I could easily sell it again without a loss. But I still have it and will keep it. I hear what Michael Fremer describes in his review and enjoy using it. The improvement is not dramatic but noticeable in my system.
Is the MSRP too high? I think so - judged by the estimated cost to make it. But then again - who cares? Nobody is forcing me to buy one.
You think the Furutech is expensive. Try the Acoustic Revive. The Walker Talisman also works, is about $200 but, it takes more effort to use. At least the Furutech or AR allow you to do lengths of cabling as well.
The benefits for their use I'd describe as similar to one using nasal spray when badly congested. The music breathes better.
"You think the Furutech is expensive. Try the Acoustic Revive. The Walker Talisman also works, is about $200 but, it takes more effort to use. At least the Furutech or AR allow you to do lengths of cabling as well."
From the Walker Audio website for Talisman, note last sentence Re treating cables:
"Magnetic fields and static electricity can greatly affect audio and video playback equipment and source material. The Talisman temporarily dissipates magnetic fields and static electricity allowing the phono cartridge or laser reader to transmit a purer, more accurate signal. Use the Talisman to treat LPs, CDs, SACDs, DVDs, HD-DVDs, and Blu Ray discs, as well as treating your audio and video cables in place!"
This is exactly why I bought a Strain Gauge cart. It’s not effected by magnetism. Can’t wait for Raul to chime in about what A horrible choice I made .
On a serious note, how many things that were once scoffed at (premium cables, balanced cables, power cords, power conditioners, a audiophile ac outlets) that are now considered a standard part of a high end system)
I just read when AR created the sealed Ancoustic suspension speaker, they didn't know how it worked, just that it sounded better.