2. speakers
  3. 169913-13640

Monitor suggestions?

An unexpected, modest budget improvement means I can (possible) address what I perceive as both poorly controlled bass and an overall lack of clarity.  Yes, I realize I raised this before but I think I have a better handle of the problems at this point. 

I suspect the first issue is due to insufficient damping factor on the part of the the Wells Majestic integrated coupled with an inherently difficult-to-control lower range in the Silverline SR17.5 monitors.  

The second issue is most likely due to the dark and somewhat cloudy tonality of the Aqua La Voce 2 DAC. 

I'm looking into upgrading the Wells but here and now, I'd like suggestions on changing speakers. 

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Budget: $3500 (used is fine)

Cabinet: Sealed box or downward firing port. 

Lower extension (ideally) down to 35HZ

Neutral to somewhat cool (but not approaching analytical) tonality 

Placement constraints: Backs of speakers cannot be more than three feet from back wall
and will sit atop 32" stands,(which means no 3-way or otherwise extra-tall cabs).

Listening:

60% acoustic (Jazz, Folkish, Celtic, Singer-songwriter, New Grass)
40% electric (Jam Band, Americana, Blues, Country).
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So far, Elac Vela looks like a possibility.  What else ? 

I plan to assemble an entirely new system within 5 years. I'm just looking to make listening less frustrating for the present. 

stuartk

Showing 10 responses by motokokusanagi

motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
Sealed monitors down to 35hz....not many of those due to laws of physics. More realistic is 40/50hz + allow for room gain of 3-6db.

Monitors with downward facing ports on a stand? Not a good idea. They also, um, don’t exist.

For everything else you want, wholeheartedly recommend ATC SCM7/11/12/19/20s. Don’t know your amp, but these ATCs match your speaker requirements.

For an easier load/drive and the classic British monitor thing, I’d look at Graham Audio (which I prefer to Harbeth).

I wouldn’t rule out floorstanders. They’ll take up the same space as a monitor on a stand!
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
I looked up the Vela. That’s a weirdass port solution. It’s using the bottom plane of the speaker effectively as a mini stand-cum-slotted vent....nobody else does this. And I’d be more skeptical than forgiving of if it doesn’t sound bad. Basically, this is going to sound even smaller and compressed than it already appears. Weird solution. I’d look at something else of higher quality.

OK, sounds like you aren’t willing to compromise on low-end....so, get a bigass 2-way (1" tweeter + 8" woofer, like the Devore Orangutans as a reference; btw, Devore announced they’re going to be releasing 2 smaller, cheaper versions of the same design at some point.

I’m being frank but you need to reset your expectations on the bass capability of a small 2 way on stands. No matter the brand, you’re talking about a 5 to 6.5" (let alone smaller) driver in a 20L ish cabinet (or smaller). There’s only so many ways that goes without giving up something like sensitivity, midrange quality, cost, you’re going to get about 50hz without room gain and that is that.
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
M30.2s are double the budget....and oh look, they say they go down to 50hz ::D
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
"a Proac Response D2 might be a possibility" - not a bad choice; Proacs are very popular, and all models have the same sound signature (musical, detailed; slightly snappy in the treble).

Used ones may offer a lot better value. Stewart Tyler (RIP) basically used the same crossover topology in all his 2-way designs for over 20 years. Newer ones will cost a lot more yet the sound will be in the same ballpark as an equivalent model of 10 years ago. Consider finding the biggest one that will fit your room/stands.

Their Studio SM100 is the same format as the D2, just with different drivers.
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
Also, read GIK's material on acoustics and room treatment
https://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-primer/
https://www.gikacoustics.com/educational-videos/

especially also on bass nulls!
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
OK those placement descriptions do suggest acoustic issues affecting bass. Look at GIK acoustic product solutions e.g. bass traps. Think about rugs, and reflections, e.g. diffusers.

ATC 7/11/19 are all sealed. These make them much less susceptible to positioning problems than vented speakers.

Your DAC is meant to be superb; I’d be looking at room treatments first before swapping it.
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
Read this: https://www.passlabs.com/technical_article/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil/

Ideally, one wants to use short speaker cable lengths, but 20ft is not going to murder your system, and certainly not in comparison to acoustic distortions from reflections and room modes. Treat the room. Get the right speakers for your placement restrictions, sonic preferences, and room size.

All speaker cable degrades through loss of high level signal, and more so when running into a passive crossover where it can interact with the filter responses. In pro audio, they prefer to use active speakers so no passive crossovers, and no speaker cable rather than long, balanced interconnects, which are better for long runs being low level signals.
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
Sure thing. You can contact GIK by email or phone or their help form.
They’re really helpful. They have many products that are meant to fit in living rooms unobtrusively, like print panels. One doesn’t have to turn the room into a full on studio, but first get a handle on what the issues might be and the range of solutions for them.

https://www.gikacoustics.com/temporary-treated-living-room/

motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
A good choice. They're on similar levels. Didn't know you were in Seattle. I got my amp from Hawthorne, a long time ago.

As a last choice, remember ATC also has their Pro line. For the passives, these are exactly the same drivers and cabinet volume, but sometimes cheaper than the home models and they don't look quite as good, but they sound the same. The Pro version of the 11 is called the 12, and the Pro version of the 19 is called the 20. There will be more availability through online pro audio stores like Vintage King (whom I got my 20s off years ago).
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
Great, if you could demo anything from each brand that would be best, as basically all Proac and ATC 2-ways have the same house sound.

ATC recommends 75w min for the SCM19/20; it has 85/886db sensitivity vs the D2’s 88db, so the Proac will be louder at the same volume level. They both have similar impedances and won’t dip too low; an easy load in terms of current demands for any solid state amp. On the flip side, the ATCs will have higher power handling; less distortion and clipping when you want to crank it.

Another big difference is bass. Being ported, the Proac will reach lower beore its tuning frequency but then bass will fall steeply below that. Being sealed, the ATC will have better transient response (tightness), not going as low, but its rolloff is much shallower. I’d say the Proac should give you more bass down to 40hz before that sharp rolloff, the ATC about 50hz. The ATC will be less upset by acoustic issues from proximity to room boundaries, and the waveguided tweeter should have better off-axis response. It’s generally easier to integrate a sealed speaker with a sub if you go down that route in the future.


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