Thanks for your answers and the link. Looks like the suction section is part of the motor unit in both machines, but it looks to me that the 8000 motor unit is of better built quality and the design is nicer (at least in my eyes) |
Lewm, of course you need to see both units in person to have a better decision-bases. Nevertheless the solid buttons of the RY-5500 II and their haptics are a statement of High-Quality engineering and machine building I do not see at the SZ-1m so far.
The link Pcosta provided gives a very good picture of the unit and of the buttons. What matters more than taste of design is the in-built fly-wheel concept and the air bearing of the SZ-1m which T-Bone has described. Maybe I should look for an extra fly-wheel unit for the 8000. |
t bone,thanks a lot for your good advise. I put all my Katagana and Hirgana together (the Kanjis are all gone...), very interesting and I will definitely go for it.
thanks a lot |
price is ok. will keep my eyes open. |
I am considering now buying a second SX 8000 II because it should be the best solution for the inertia function. Means: the RY-5500 II motor unit drives the first SX-8000II, and the SX-8000 II drives the other SX-8000 II as shown in the system of Syntax on the two RX-5000. Based on the platter if it is 1:1 (same size) the speed should be no problem and the SX-8000's platter (or 1500, 5000) is heavier then the HS-80's small plate -this should lead to a more stable and wider sound stage. Also another four tonearms could be mounted on the second SX 8000 II. The first SX-8000 II absorbs variations from the motor then driving the second SX-8000 II. Sound will have an 30% improvement in comparison to the one set SX-8000II + HS-80.
Syntax, is that true, can you prove those assumptions?
Regarding the question what is the difference in sound quality between the air-bearing and non air bearing big Micros some people and me too think that it is an improvement of around 15-20%.
A realistic price for a SX-8000 II in a very good condition is around 25.000 US$. But I have seen offers of 40.000 US$ too, just recently. Everyone has to decide on paying such an amount... |
Good! You answers make me rethinking the whole approach and maybe returning to the HS-80 solution.
The percentage thing is just to give a clue via distance what it could be about, it is personal and vague.
I myself had the opportunity to have the SX 8000 II as well as the RX 5000 in my chain, the latter for a very short time because it was promised to go to a friend.
As the RX 5000 is an excellent big Micro and even better than most of its modern copies the air bearing concept brings a bit more smoothness and brilliance in the picture - in my opinion. |
what do you think about the VPI HRX/TNT 6 DUAL MOTOR FLYWHEEL ? |
Yes Quiddy, The Micro product is well designed. But regarding prices they are quite on the same level. The latest HS-80 in Japan was sold for Yen 140.000 and the VPI double drive goes for around US$ 1.500. If you use the VPI dual motor flywheel in connection with the Synchronous Drive System (SDS) for additional US$ 1.000 do you think it might be a good solution for a big Micro?
Has anybody else experience with the VPI system? |
Thanks Raul, very impressive setting Jean has.
My "flying doctor" arrived today, monday evening ordered in usa, this wednesday morning delivered - we get really global now. you see a pic under "my system".
i`d like to thank all of you who advised me in this journey of improvement...Eckart |
I promised to tell something about the flywheel concept I have choosen. You see it under my system pics. After one week of testing I regard the VPI flywheel double motor and the SDS (Synchronous Drive System) as a real support for the Micro`s drive. I realize some more dynamics when running both motors at the same time - but I hear a more stable sound picture too. Believe me it did not sound bad before. The fine speed control provided by the SDS is a nice feature. |
there are not so may units of the SZ-1M around here. Frankpiet if you ever find one pls. let me know. I will give you a present, honestly.
I do think that Kipdents arrangment should work pretty well. Let me try a suggestion: Why do you display this fantastic arrangement in the lower compartment - if you put it on top of a wonderful table like from Copulare or HRS or one made by a good carpenter you might love it much more. Any obstacles? Thanks for the knotting advice, very helpful. |
Steve, you´re right. The Micro Cu 180 platter brings a lot more dynamics and clear details. I don`t use it on my Micro (because of the lips!) but on my Nakamichi. Nevertheless using the Cu platter you might need an additional very fine and light mat to give additional stability for the sound. Both are worth a try! |
Fm login, agree. That´s why I changed my approach. It makes sense with a bearing of a RX 5000 but not with the air bearing of the SX 8000. I installed a flywheel using a VPI double motor, the SDS fine & precise speed and power controlling and an original Micro Seiki wire. You my have a look at my page. |
FM Login, I am very happy with the bass reproduction by the SS-design provided by the Classè Omegas, the Stealth Dream and the Wilson LS (not to mention the 1812). It produces a very warm but stable sound. If you have the chance drop in and you might change your opinion quickly. I mean - if you not preconditioned and belonging to a church of SS-design refusers. Nevertheless there is always room for improvement. |
Kipdent, i have the same impression when I tested the flywheel on my Micro - the sound improved. But maybe I hear this only because it should serve me as the owner... as FM login states. So what. |
Oh Axel, you are a fan of Marschmusic and all prussian accessories, didn´t know that. Are you exercising in the house or in front of the house - I mean are you playing a Marschmusic instrument too? |
Hi Boidos, I am running the vacuum platter on my SX 8000 II, which is of course an inbuild function, as well as a Micro cu-180 mat on my Nakamichi TX-1000. If you have the option for the vacuum and it is working without big noise and does its job properly i would compare it with the sound quality provided by the cu-180 mat (with small textil layer on top). Just test the sound quality and decide for the better one. If you have the original Micro cu-180 mat it should provide a good sound. |
FM_login
This is a funny understanding of the Japanese audiophiles you have. Having lived in Japan I have seen listening environments which do match your description (TT on TV etc.). But I have also seen very sophisticated environments, carefully planned and executed - also in big rooms, believe it or not.
And to be honest how many of the listening rooms in the western world are carefully planned and executed?
Maybe it is always the same with our preconceptions we carry around with us. Maybe you think of me as a German going every weekend to a Volksfest in Bavaria, returning home and playing Marschmusik all the time... |
Axel, I never wanted to use this word but now I will use it in a negation form to answer your question. The flywheel in this environment is definitely no BS ! |
Hiho, thanks for your suggestion.I am pretty fine with my VPI drives in addition to the MS drive. If you look at the VPI SDS you see that this is a masterpiece of Harry Weissfield. Most people underrate the SDS, a very cleverly combined steering wheel from many different excellent parts.
I know from audiophiles who build a TT around two SDS flying wheels. I now can imagine what kind of quality in motor precision they get. |
Axel, I see you are a real expert in a very special kind of music. I would never laugh on your great remarks but it fires my imagination and I am trying visualizing how you exercise in front of your bamboo hut shouldering your arms and protecting against wild animals... Am I wrong? |
active vs. passive flywheel ??
as I am very happy with the VPI SDS active flywheel - the technology used by VPI inside the SDS is excellent and also the metal parts are drilled precisely - I will now test another flywheel, a passive one.
I will come back with the results and a picture of the flywheel setting very soon. |
Downunder,
I found a friend who has both machines. I will visit him in the next year. do report on my findings. promise!
have a good new year! |
Axel, no Micro and no flywheel?? unbelievable. you have to change this immediately. I am eager to hear how you like the flywheel and if you hear a difference...
a good friend of mine also adds a flywheel to his Micro, he visited me... |
I have now testet the Micro Seiki HS-80 - which is a passive flywheel- on my MS 8000 and the VPI SDS/dual motor flywheel - which is an active flywheel - on my MS 8000 II.
Both flywheels stabilize the sound picture but the VPI combo is some kind of a dream. The sound gets more precise, more solid. The music plays like on perfect stage.
I am now considering using two VPI combos (2 x SDS, 2x dual motor flywheel) at each side of my MS 8000. The HS-80 I will put at the right side of my MS 8000 II.
What I learned is that most motors of the vintage area are ok (basically a simple design) but not as good as well thought solutions like the VPI. You may improve your turntabe by 1.) using a flywheel and 2.) using an active version. |
Hi 11flat6,
no problem with reviving. I am convinced that you can improve and stabilize a good turntable by the following measurements:
1) ensure you have separate isolation platforms for motor, table and flywheel
2) use a motor and pully which are in good condition and work absolutely stable (in case of older Micro designs maybe check, lubricate, exchange the transformer and/or capacitors)
3) better go for belts than threads. ensure the belts have the same distance and measure the belt tension. should be the same value for both belts
4) the VPI double motor driven by the SDS is one of the most precise and stable motor/steering combinations on the market today |
