Micro Seiki, or TW AC-1


I'm trying to decide between Micro Seiki RX 5000 and TW AC-1.
They are approx. the same price used (about $10K)
Both are belt drive.
Unfortunately, I don't have a first hand experience with either of the tables.
You can see my current set-up in my system page.
The reason, I want to make a change from DD TT to belt drive is just to try a different approach.
Also, I have a feeling, that the bass would be one of the areas, where MS and TW might have an edge over my current DD Technics SP-10 MkII
My endeavor into analog is fairly new, so I'm not sure what my final choice in analog would be, unless I try it in my own system.
What I'm really interested in is the following:
Sonic differences b/w MS, TW and Technics SP-10 MkII
Reliability
Service availability.
maril555

Showing 6 responses by whart

Maril: I can't answer your question, because I have no hands-on experience with either table. I'd also ask about the 8000, and there are a few owners of both Micro Seiki tables here who could tell you the differences. They would seem to be tweakier but you are probably prepared for that.
I'm bothering to comment because we share similar systems in fundamental ways. I will tell you, without shilling for the table I use, that a heavyweight table, set up properly, seems to disappear and the faint 'halo' that people seem to associate with vinyl playback, pretty much disappears.
I also have an SP-10 (albeit a Mk1) that I have owned since new, but hasn't seen use for decades; I'll probably revive it someday. I'll be interested to see responses, particularly from those who have hands-on experience with BOTH tables you mention, because I'm sure each has a loyal following.
Jaspert raises a real point here: short of setting up several tables in the same system, using identical arms and cartridges, it would be impossible to discern these differences in any absolute way. I suppose that if you heard some of these same tables in enough different systems, you could suss out what the table seems to contribute to the proceedings, but that is imperfect. You are relying on sonic memory to some extent. That said, folks seem to be able to identify the sonic signature of a Linn or VPI by certain characteristics. The Verdier is not a common table here in the States as far as I know.
I'm going to remain agnostic here, other than to note that the very well made Kuzma Reference, using a Triplanar, and Titan i, was dwarfed by its much more massive big brother, using the same cartridge in the same room and system, albeit with a different arm. The high mass turntable seemed to have bottomless bass and a far less noticeable 'aura' around the sound. In a word, it was just quieter, something I did not notice until the 'halo' disappeared. (The best analogy I could give you is like the ambient noise of a quiet central air-conditioning system- you don't really notice it until it shuts off). Not shilling for Kuzma here, as I said, but I do like what a big, high mass table does.
I have no dog in this fight, other than that I'm sympatico with the OP because we share certain system attributes. I don't doubt Pani heard what he heard and will admit that the only time I've heard the AC table (I think it was the Black Knight) was courtesy of Jeff @ Highwater in show conditions. I think we'll all acknowledge that turntables at any level~ and here, we are talking about a pretty high level of performance~ will sound different from each other. My suggestion is that the OP contact Jeff when he is back from Rocky Mountain, and be candid about his interest in a used table. Take a trip to NY and hear the darn thing, presumably Jeff can set it up as well as anybody. (Ideally, he'd use a cartridge you are familiar with or willing to consider buying).
The Micro Seiki seems to be a little risky in trying to get support if you have problems, assuming the OP could source a good one without issues. The Platine- very cool table and one I'd certainly consider in this league if available in the States. It's been around a long time, and is still made.
Does that make sense? (I'm not encouraging abuse of a dealer here, which is why I suggested candor- Jeff, who I don't really know well, but have talked to a couple times, is one of the best folks in the business).
I don't think getting a projectable sample is of any value here guys. I think you have to put these units in the system in question, and live with them for a while. That's the only way. Expensive, perhaps, but if Maril bought a good MS, and got Jeff to 'loan' him an AC and he decided he liked the AC better, the MS could be resold pretty easily, as long as it was a good example, no?
I hate to interject subjective, 'system-dependent,' synergy-type thinking here, since despite my subjectivist leanings, I tend to think of turntables in terms of accuracy, speed constancy, low noise and neutrality, but is some of the difference here in views, apart from ergonomics or aesthetics or sheer 'funk' value, attributable to sonic 'system' matching, in the same way we recognize synergies with other components? I'm not advocating an agenda here, but wonder if some of the diverging views have to do with what else is in the system and its overall sonic character?
I was the one that raised the question of system synergy, given some of the diverse descriptions of sound, from too much leading edge, to dark and dead. I don't own an AC table; I'm using the Kuzma XL and Airline and am not promoting that either (although I've been quite happy with it, other than the pump for the arm).
Bill Hart