Also, a slight clarification for my previous post in the AM section. Hopefully the implied qualification wasn't lost. Should read as: "Provides a more 3-dimensional image than any other dac [I've heard in my system]" |
Probably not very helpful, but I have an audio mirror tubadour III se and have compared it to two ps audio products, both the perfectwave mk2 and directstream. I found it better in every regard... It's also in your price range. |
@ghasley Thanks so much for the detailed comparisons... Super useful and really nice to read someone who doesn't feel compelled to defend themselves. Every component sounds different in different systems. Would love to try an Amber 3 now that you've described it... |
Given that it worked out for GR, I'll also say that I'd be happy to bring my AMT3se over for a comparison if anyone is around Denver... |
I take it when you get the volume control on the Amber, then you get a remote and input switching?
What is the price for that option?
And lamp. does not do i2s inputs, right (that's one factor that pushed me towards the audio mirror)? |
@sidog1460 I did a little more reading on the Lampizator website and saw that volume control does add input switching (but not balance control). It adds $1000 to the cost. |
I just ordered an Amber 3 demo from our friendly TN Lampizator dealer (shipped to CO). I'll get it in mid-January for a shootout against my Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE. Very curious to see how it goes. Either the Amber ships back to TN or someone else gets a good deal on a beautiful AM DAC with upgraded tubes... |
Not sure people will be as interested in the comparison, but I'm also ordering two other demos to join the shootout. The ifi dad pro and sabre x-matrix pro. I've been convinced that the audio mirror and lampizator will be at the top, but I figured this was the right time to test out a number of competitors and put any "what if" thoughts to rest. I've also got a ps audio perfectwave mk2 at home and previously owned a directstream. Together, that's wolfson, brown-burr, Delta-sigma, es, fpga, and r2r decoders. Should be interesting to see how my internet-derived expectations hold up... |
If anyone's around the Denver area and would like to bring another dac or otherwise play along, just let me know. I've got a system posted here... |
@dfairc777a Would love to... wish someone had one around. And I do still believe strongly in "ymmv", regardless of the outcome. So much depends on the system in which everything is embedded.
I, for example, have no doubt that the psa directstream sounds spectacular in some systems (see the stereophile reviews), but it just didn't work in mine (or with my ears). I also have know that my amplifiers (first watt f4s) would sound terrible with some speakers, but are wonderful with mine. |
I like that this thread ended up with people buying both dacs under consideration and everyone coming away ecstatic about their systems. Good work. |
@grannyring Should be around 150...no fuse upgrades to either DAC yet (was not told that the AM had a boutique fuse and haven't checked). |
Just got my Amber last week and am hosting a (two person) dac shootout this weekend. The Amber, Audio Mirror T3-SE, iFi iDSD pro, & a Shiit my friend is bringing over (unsure of model #). I've already had the iFi (and a Matrix X-Sabre Pro) for a few weeks... both will be going back. Unfortunately haven't gotten to seriously listen to the Lampizator yet due to an unscheduled visit for all of MLK-day weekend. |
Finished my dac shootout today... had the Lampizator Amber 3, Audio Mirror Tubadour 3 SE, ifi iDSD pro, and Shiit Bifrost 2 on hand. Previously also had a Matrix x-sabre pro, PS Audio Directstream, and PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC MK2 in the same system. All were fed lossless Tidal with the SPDIF output of a Magna Mano Ultra streamer. Speakers are Coincident PREs, amplified by First Watt F4 monoblocks, and a Don Sach's DS-3 6SN7 preamp (see my system page for full details).
First, I'd like to echo Bill's comments about
Colin of Gestalt Audio. Total class act, and highly recommended for any purchase. He's been responsive, helpful, and not at all pushy. Perfect service.
For review: In my system, the Audio Mirror was the winner. To my ears, it was the most real sounding of the bunch. It has beautiful "meat on the bones" and was the most holographic. The Amber sounded good, but in a very different way. For me, it was brighter and more lively. The soundstage was huge, but had less depth and liquidity than the AM. I also liked the iFi iDSD pro (used in tube+ mode with the bitperfect filter). It had great tonality, but was significantly flatter and less 3-dimensional than the AM. I think more people should give it a shot. The Shiit was good. Very even-handed and competent, but more "digital sounding" to my ears. My friend was listening blind and liked it the second best of the group (behind the AM).
Despite its king-of-the-hill status in specs (see Audio Science Review), I did not enjoy the Matrix x-Sabre Pro. It was very quiet and clean, with a nice mellow sound, but also a bit "grey" and sterile. I also did not like the PS Audio Directream, which just sounded wrong in my system. It felt disjointed. I don't know what the situation is, but for some reason it doesn't work with my ears. Unlike others, I actually preferred the PerfectWave over it (twice - as I tried upgrading two times over a 4 year span).
All in all, it was great to finally listen to a wide range of sources, and I could enjoy most of the ones in the stable. The experience also brought me closer to my AM T3-SE. A beautiful, highly recommended dac. |
@grannyring Interesting. I had 150 hours on the Amber, unfortunately my trial ends tomorrow, although I'm very comfortable sticking with the Audio Mirror after hearing all of these sources over the past month.
Cable wise, I've got a mix of silver and copper in the system. Silver before the amps and copper after. VH Audio's 5N cotton covered silver DIY interconnects between the DAC & Preamp, Ocellia silver reference between pre and amps, and then tinned-copper Duelund out to the speakers. I've been thinking about grabbing some of the Tempo Electric silver cables and seeing what going further in that direction sounds like. Haven't heard my speakers with anything besides the Duelund and some old anti-cables.
And thanks for the compliment Bill. The system is slowly getting there. The Coincident PREs have an opinion about everything... |
One last quick note about Colin @ Gestalt Audio... during my demo I had a cable catch the serial number sticker on the back of my unit and scratch it up. He was super gracious and just took the personal loss on that. Small and insignificant "damage", but still something that impacts selling cost as we all know. He deserves your future business (and mine). Really a class act.
I'll end with a quote from our correspondence: "One of the reasons I wanted to become a dealer is so I could help others have better experiences than I had when I was on the customer side of this hobby." |
I was just discussing the dac shootout with another member via PM and the conversation highlighted one of the key differences in my experiences with the Amber 3 and the Audio Mirror T3-SE. If you find yourself wanting to get more detail or "wake up" your system, I think you would prefer the Amber 3. If you find yourself having to tame system brightness or edginess, then you'll likely prefer the AM-T3 as I did.
I just looked up a review of my Coincident PRE's and grabbed this line: "The PREs are quick, agile and dynamically uninhibited..." vs. "the Epicon 6 speaks for itself on this matter: I do not think anyone listening to it, audiophile or no, would fail to observe how pure and liquid is the sound..."
I have not heard the Epicon's, but given those quick one-line summaries, I'm not surprised that Bill and I ended up making different decisions. |
@facten I don't think there's much inconsistency there, despite the apparent discrepancy at first glance. My speakers err on the side of detail and liveliness, and it seems that Bill's may instead start off on the side of liquid smoothness. Add in more smoothness to an already smooth system and you may end up with too much. As such, a dac that's a touch more lively could be a better match. And, of course, perhaps I just couldn't keep the Amber long enough to fully hear it come into its own. That said, a number of positive reviews for the unit have mentioned its dynamics and energy. I don't think the AM is lacking in those qualities, but they're also not features that I need my upstream equipment to emphasize given the realities of my speakers.
Like Bill and @rx8man , I prefer a warm, liquid sound, but have to fight a bit against the Coincident's accuton ceramic drivers to get there. I certainly know *every time* that a component (or cable, or fuse, or capacitor) pushes me too far towards analytic or detailed. The AM is really key to bringing that liquid character that I want, while maintaining a wonderful, holographic imaging that I also value.
@grannyring And I would love to share the AM with you. If you ever have an alternative dac (another modified Orchid??) on hand to send my way while you're using the AM (or I end up travelling for a couple weeks), I'd be happy to work something out. Always happy to try out new gear... plus we've already both bought equipment from each other, so it feels nice and safe. |
@brownsfan Unfortunately the closest I get to classical on a regular basis (or during my auditioning) is electronica, so I don't really have much to say. Hopefully Bill has some thoughts. I started to write about the imaging/soundstaging of the two dacs (Amber = wider, AM = deeper), but I don't know that that really relates. As you've seen in my comments, I did find the Amber to be more incisive and could imagine that relates to a better delineation of many instruments playing at once. Wish I'd given some classical (or maybe some complex instrumental rock like Battles) a listen.
I will note that across the DACs I've experienced in my system, I've heard Wolfson, DS, ESS, Analogue Devices R2R, a FPGA, Brown-Burr, and Shiit's multi-bit implementation of two AD chips. Unfortunately there's not much overlap there, but I did find the two AD chip based units sounded very different from one another (more so than the AD R2R - Audio Mirror - vs. Brown-Burr - iFi iDSD Pro- for example). Much like amplifiers, I suspect there's more to the implementation than the chip specifics. I know Lampizator doesn't want your DS prejudices to color judgments of their products (and hence are hesitant to even note what chip they use). |
Certainly possible, although I also felt that the two dacs sounded very different from one another. Obviously Lampizator thinks you can get a pretty good idea of what the Amber offers within 7 days. And as Bill pointed out, everyone's impression is so totally system dependent. If there were one single best answer, this forum wouldn't even exist. |
@brownsfan Bill, at least Audio Mirror offers a 10-day home trial, so it's low risk to audition (also true of the Amber 3 from Gestalt). And it's clear from our amplifier and speaker history that we share some presentation preferences. As I noted, however, I don't really listen to classical (but I do wear an Ohio State hat every day). |
I have had the directstream in my system and I feel that the other options are superior in every way. I used it daily for a month, so it was well burned in. I’ve had difficulty reconciling my experience with other reports (e.g., the stereophile class a rating). It just didn't work in my system. |
@uberwaltz Don't forget that you can get reasonable home demo periods with both the AM and Lampizator (through Colin @ Gestault Audio). Obviously can't do the same with the modded Orchid, but at least you can have two duke it out in your own system... |
@caglioti Hi there, from the above list I've had the AM T3SE, Amber 3, and Holo May in my system for 7 day or longer home demos. Here are my brief thoughts. Feel free to ask for elaboration.
Amber 3 - Bright and lively, energetic and dynamic. Too incisive for my system.
Holo May - Extended, accurate, and incredibly even handed across the frequency spectrum. The largest soundstage I've experienced in both height and width. Extremely quiet with great tone & timbre.
Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE - Holographic and real. The most flesh and blood sounding of any dac I've tried. Provides a more 3-dimensional image than any other dac.
If I could design the sound profile of my ideal dac, it would combine the extension and frequency reproduction accuracy of the May with the 3-dimensional soundstage and realness of the AMT3se. |
I'm supposedly at 94db/1w/1m and haven't had any problems at all with the dacs listed above. The only product I've had an issue with is the PS Audio Directstream, although they improved the noise floor issue somewhat with firmware updates. |
