rebbi the supra connectors may be better than the ones i got. that is why i need to speak to him (the rep). do you have his e-mail?
b |
hi, the tsm mme is the only version that is camparable to the mmi. only one pair was mentioned above. they sound very different when compared to earlier versions.
best, b |
rebbi, lars called yesterday and he is sending me the supra copper/gold spades and some of his interconnects to try. thanks for the contact info and i will let you know.
bobby |
r, thank you for your thoughts.
they are fair.
best, b |
rebbi, yes but a much larger size.
on the rc's and jumpers i much preferred the o ring connectors i use to anything else i tried. not much to look at but the sound is superb. and the tinned copper makes sense to me.
b |
mapman, driver technology is important but not as important as how you use it. the woofer in the tsm is a morel and the tweeters are handmade to my spec by rennaissance audio and is an improoved version of the morel mdt28. it is the ren mst30.5. the disapearing act hififile speaks of has to do with the cabinet profile/dispersion, driver spacing, the very wide and super flat amplitude and its very continuous sound from top to bottom. it is imho, very expansive sounding.
best, b |
what model tsm, r?
thanks, b |
r, i asked a simple question and was polite. your response is anything but polite. it is you that are way out of line and being rude. i am not policing anything, how could i. there are moderators here for that and they have removed posts if they think a line is crossed. none was. i just wanted to know what version you owned to see how current they were. i learn from people's comments and i like to learn. not everyone has to own my product or like it. that would be impossible. we all listen to and for different things. audio doesn't have to be a contact sport which is what people like you turn it in to. remember one thing, i am also part of this community and you nor anyone else will drive me from it.
have a nice long weekend.
b |
reynolds853, i asked you what version of tsm you owned and i found out in another string, it was the tsm se. this is a 13 year old version and has been improved on by the m, mm, mme and mmi. if you would have mentioned this i would not have had to ask and got into this nonsense with you. owning a ford means you could own anything from a model t to a gt40. not all fords are the same, nor are all of the tsms.
have a good weekend.
b |
r, i made the post asking what version you had before robbob's opinion was even posted. that was his opinion and not mine. i did not even know he had made the post.
i asked you politely to mention the version. that was because i had forgotten that you had mentioned it earlier in this string. it was over 5 weeks ago. but look at the thanks i gave you for being fair. does this really sound like i have an alterior motive in this?
i did not jump in as you say to challenge anything. it is incorrect for me to give opinions on any brand but my own in a forum like this. and at any rate, i have not heard the canton and i do not talk about what i do not know. so how could i challenge your opinions on any level. i think you got upset because to you, it looked like robbob and i were in this together which is an incorrect assumption. and later that i was questioning your opinion on the canton which is also an incorrect assumption.
we are all entitled to an opinion and i would not question yours. but please do not make assumptions about my opinions or my character.
imho you are over reacting and taking things out of context. all you needed to say was that i mentioned the version earlier in this very string. and knowing now that you had, why be so secretive 5 weeks later?
and yes have a nice weekend.
and tvad, it is best to talk things out because this was a misunderstanding and we can learn from these. |
rebbi, not to worry. maintain a 9.5 foot listening distance from the speakers if you can and put the speakers closer to the wall behind them.
the cardas golden rule which you refer to is a guidline for the best possible positioning which happens only a few times out of a 100. the most important thing is to sit the distance i told you away from them to utilize the power response which they are designed with.
you will be fine.
let me know.
best, b |
paul, the rc network does two things. it is an hf filter at 1.6 mghz for filtering rfi and emi. imo a must in a city environment. and the second is to offer an unterminated amp a 10 ohm load at 100 khz. speakers are open circuits and the 10 ohm load on the amp in the extreme hf allows it to settle down and sound as good as it possibly can.
if you have a dull speaker you may prefer the sound with the rc off but in a high res system it is better with it on.
ok?
best, b |
paul, you are in for more fun as you master bam and rc's are going out today by ups, signature requested.
have fun,
bobby |
paul, there are many aspects of thinness but i think in this case it is a foundation to the music that adds expanse and a breath of life. some speakers do a better job than others but monitors in smallish rooms with the resulting bass reinforcement modes can be superb. however these monitors in too large a room volume can sound lost. this is where a sub can help.
the hardest aspect of sound reproduction is the range below 30 hz. just having the output is not everything to everyone. making it sound like it fits the performance is more important to me.
best, b |
mapman, imo, the amplifier termination issue is something that almost 98% of the amps need so it did not seem incorrect to combine it with the hf filtering poetential.
speakers that are very linear with gobs of resolution can reveal things in the way of complication/confusion to the sound. we filter both ends of the bandwidth in the bam and by using the ers paper on chip sets in the system. how intense must these fields be? strong enough to be heard i suppose. i am not the only one that can hear them.
best, bobby |
mapman, what of the room volume and ancillaries?
bobby |
m, room volume/size, wires and electronics?
then i will recommend one.
one is better suited to all out tube systems and the other to ss and leaner tubes.
the mmi to leaner tubes/ss and the mx-r to all out tube systems. both are available with the master rc's as an option.
best,
b |
mapman because you are using ss with the ohms then the tsm i would recommend and the most reasonable is the mmi version. this is the one that rebbi is using and he uses a class d amp i believe. hoever both versions would perform very well with ss.
thank you, b |
guppy, hififile and rebbi, just spoke to brian at madisound and he is sending me some 6.0 to audition so i will be back to you on this.
the design philosophy and gauge are perfect, imho.
should be a good product.
b |
g, the tsm directions?
yes of course, this speaker is designed with its power response and it needs to be listened to the way it was designed. it also wants to be listened to on its musical center and not on tweeter axis. use of the jumpers and not internal bi-wires or shotguns also make a profound difference as they should. piece of cake once you understand what is going on. i have worked on them for over 13 years so i know the ropes and it takes all of the guess work out of the set up.
best, b |
m, the two speakers are essentially the same but the crossover components are picked to a different tolerance, the woofers have a different amount of latex coating on them, the torque settings on the fasteners are set differently and the undercaots of the finish are different. a polymer coat adds mass to the mx-r which makes the cabinet a little quieter, the sound more continuous from top to bottom so there is more resolution.
there is an obvious difference in the way they sound because they are tuned differently.
the mmi is easier to get great sound out of while the mx-r does sound more right/better but you need a better system to get it out of them.
ok?
best, b
best, b |
m, the impedance has been corrected so it is constant and a little high making them particularly tube friendly but they are still wonderful with ss. there is a review link to andio morotti the founder of fedelta del suono in italy on the main page of the merlin site. in it he discusses his feelings of the tsm with ss and tubes. perfectly described imho. it is a review of the tsm mme which is the predecessor to the mmi. the hf circuit in the tsm is q circuited.
best regards,
bobby |
rebbi, a very fine product with 1st order networks.
guppy, it is the alignment tool.
best, b |
hi, got the wire and it looks very interesting but i need connectors and am waiting for them now.
bobby |
rebbi, i have used the speaker as little as 5.5 feet apart but only in a very narrow room and this was at a show.
farther apart the bass may tighten as you have less summing but it also may have lightened a touch.
imho, with a speaker as uniform as the tsm is in dispersion and bandwidth it becomes very easy to sense when you are right or wrong in set up refinements. and after you get used to what they do, it becomes even easier to dial them in. when a new pair is purchased and the owner reads the set up instructions, he can pretty much have them 100% right fromm the get go. i have designed an aligment tool so you can adjust the toe angle and made helpful recommendations from my years working with them. follow them and you should be all set.
good show.
do those things to your room and you will be even more happy.
best, b |
paul, on the short wall?
is the short wall draped or damped?
b |
are the the windows covered in curtains, if not i would.
anything else on the rear wall other than the traps like a wall hanging or the like. think about these points.
if the wall is damped you can move them closer to it to reinforce the deepest bass by producing a longer bass wavelegnth to the listening position. right now you are set up between 1/4's and 1/3's which will hit more in the central bass. i would even try moving them in to 5.5 feet tweeter to tweeter and see what you think. what is your listening distance?
9.5 to 10 feet is optimal.
best, b |
sounds like it is a little more to my liking than the golden rule would be. because the speakers are designed with their power response they like to be listened to a little farther away. 9.5 to 10 feet is my preference. if the rear wall is not damped with drapes or wall hangings leave them as they are but if it is damped move them back to 48 to 50. listen at 10 feet and adjust the toe angle.
then compare. won't matter is the side reflection panels are in the right place. but all in all i know i would like what you have done.
best, b |
we start in exactly the same location and work from there.
in essence the set up is designed to minimize boundary reflections and maximize boundary reinforcements.
so yes the tsm may like a little more bass help by the room and the vsm may be aided by more extension.
this is 1/3 to 1/4 wave aligment.
best, b |
i have to get some to try.
b |
rebbi, guppy, hififile, got the connectors today and have the supra classic 6 in my ref system. it is not broken in but wow!!!! this stuff is really very good and stupid good for the money. imho, for around $50 with connectors this product puts a lot of high priced cable to shame on merlin speakers.
makes me want to try their litz pressure stamped wires.
as i said, the design philosophy makes perfect sense.
i had an idea it would be really good.
best, b |
rebbie and paul, the tin plated wires will reduce skin effect by increasing the resistance on the out side of the strands forcing more of the signal through the middle of the strand. brilliant!
you always start with a 6 guage difference or more from jumper or hf wire. these hf wires should be no bigger than 15 gauge. so 9 is a good place to start.
stupid good for the money is what it is.
just went for a quick listen again.
b |
i am using a copper tinned o ring connectors now. the spades i got from the dealer were were just a pressure fit (no solder) and gold plated. so i would think what we have now is better sounding but i will know more in a few days.
sorry.
best, b |
no connectors as yet john.
i hope soon.
:-)
b |
john the supra spades make the cable sound very good. better than with anything else i have tried. easy to use too.
i spoke to a person who liked the cable but thought it sounded a little soft. in comparison to my reference i would agree but remember that the aligment of the speakers can ameliorate this to a degree. use the aligment tool and instead of having it aimed at the ears, aim towards your nose. a degree of two more toe angle and the hf will come up a bit. that is how a soft dome works and can be optimised. the nice this about this cable is that it is not additive in the hf like many are.
very reasonable too.
b |
yes all is good with this except for the fact i only got 7 spades.
:-)
b |
jfz, enjoy!
now you have new speaker wire and metric wrenches.
:-)
b |
p, they should be very good for you on the vsm.
i have tried them on both the tsm and vsm.
they can be slightly on the forgiving side of things which is a joy for many.
best, b |
dave, my guess is that the supra 6 would be more to my liking with ss. the se 9 would be a fantastic cable but i think more suited to a good lower powered tube amp.
ok?
i think you'll love the supra 6.
b |
rebbi, the tsm offers very flat amplitude and a high degree of resolution. if the speakers are toed using the alignment tool (that they come with) and stand level, their contrast potential will become the best it can be. speakers as a rule have very good vertical and horizontal dispersion but the speaker's level may be many degrees off due to the floor it self. this is imho one of the most important first steps to good sound.
best, b |
totally out of the 6's price range and for the six's price you can't beat them. the swords and the cardas clear are in simlar price ranges just do you know. and their physcial make up is totally different, copper litz with cold forging. not a fair comparison for may reasons.
the latter being much better sounding but not for the budget minded.
b |
p, the swords and clear are much closer in price that the cost of the 6's. that is my point. are you trying to redesign the wheel? you know that the speakers are wired with cardas do you not?
b |
p, cables are imho more important than electronics.
the room, speakers, cables, sources and the amp.
in order of the least amount of $ spent offering the potentially largest improvement in sound.
cardas is the best bet for the speakers you own.
golden presence is a good one to consider.
b |
p, i just mailed you directly so keep and eye out.
you should get the speakers first and listen to them for a while then we can talk and see what you are hearing. it is best to know the speaker a little imho. se 9 cardas is a very good alternative for you regarding performance and price.
b |
