I've had a Levinson #532H for several years now, I love it as well.
i am actually in the process of doing a a/b comparison of the 532h vs the plinius sa 103. It should be one interesting one!
Sounds good! I had a bad experience with Levinson many years ago, so I'm a bit leery to try it again. But, I did hear it at CES in the Harman room driving JBLs, and I thought it was pretty good. Better than what I remember...
The Montis are a very heavy load, with low impedances and very high - phase angles, you need an amp that can deliver good current when asked without strain.
This means an amp that can keep near doubling it's wattage from 8ohms to 4ohms to 2ohms
One amp/s that I can think of that's not on your list is the mono block Parasound JC1's and they have the added benefit of a high bias class A switch on the back when your seriously listening. And you can switch it off when just using it for background music.http://www.stereophile.com/content/martinlogan-montis-loudspeaker-measurementshttp://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/774/index.html
Interesting to read you heard a difference between the Levinson 500H series and the ATI 6000 series. I looked at their amplifier modules (both manufacutred by ATI) and they look 99% identical (different colour of circuit board and some tiny wiring differences) with the ATI ones having slightly more capacitance (18 vs 14 capacitors).
It is a shocking similarity:
ATI 6000 platine excluding heatsink
Mark LEvinson 531H module:
The 6000 series is also much newer then the 500H series which is a bit older now. I would not be surprised if ATI pretty much based their design on the Levinson 500H design.
That said the manufactures must "voice" their amplifieres differently if you hear a difference.
YES, the levinsons are MUCH better at ANY volume level. The ati needs to be cranked up in order to enjoy it. It doesn't shine during low volume listening sessions.
I doubt your claim given the spec and construction of the ati vs levinson.
Nevertheless due to your raving reviewI will get them both for comparison at home. I hope i am not waisting my time. The levinson looks like a waste of money given identical or actually worse specification.
I HAVE OWNED BOTH. i don't care what the specs say. The mark levinson is voice VERY differently. They sound waaaaay better regardless of the volume level. i speak from my own personal experience and not from some lame magazine review that gets paid to say something good about a certai product. Most people here go by what others say, but i have owned both so i am speaking from first hand experience. The ati signature is VERY BRIGHT sounding and the guy who i sold it to also decided to sell it after owning it for only one month. He went to parasound because he couldn't tame the high frequencies in the ati. I don't care how you present it, the ati isn't the same. Mark levinson simply ROCKS with these new H series and they are extremely reliable.
Whitecam, when I was looking for an amp for my paradigm Signature S6 v2 speakers, I tried Emotiva which was way too bright. Talking to a co-worker, he recommended Mark Levinson with Martin logans. As I already had the $6000 speakers from Paradigm, I kept researching and ended up with Parasound. Your findings mirror mine with the Halo gear, a little warmer but without every last detail. This works perfect with Paradigm Sigs and I've been able to tune the system one way or the other with cables.
I own the martin logan montis and the mark levinson sounds BEAUTIFUL with the electrostatics. I don't even have a real processor yet the amplifiers sound amazing regardless of the volume level. I also think parasound halo is excellent with detail without being too forward. The ATI is forward sounding and will demand a warm sounding processor like the classe SSP. Marantz and ati DON'T GO well together. I prefer to have amplifiers that give me detail without causing fatigue after hours of listening. i love my levinsons and i had heard the entire bad rap sheet that levinson gets due to their high repair costs etc, but the H series is THE MOST RELIABLE amplifiers from mark levinson.
Don't listen to your local dealer trying to tell you the ATI is just a mark levinson, etc. IT IS NOT!. The design might be similar, but the levinsons have more detail and are smoother. i feel they are between pass labs and krell as far as detail. Not too bright and not too laid back.
Well I will demo myself. I can demo quite a couple of the amps you mentioned without needing to buy any of them so I can do an unbiased demo (owning one creates usually bias due to sunk cost). (other then being biased against expensive amps that provide no audible upside).
I arranged a demo of the ATI in the 7 channel config vs. Mark Levinson 532H vs the new Krell Duo (vs potentially Classe-CA2300).
For ultimate comparison I will compare all of those to my current Gryphon Antileon Signature (pure class A) stereo amp which cost 3x as much as any of these so there will be a proper comparison opportunity (i actually want one of those amps to sound better or equal to the gryphon...) ;-)
Demo will be with my Classe SSP800 as processor/dac and wilson benesch (Chimera) speakers which use a silk dome tweeter so both front and speakers are not on the bright/edgy side such as Marantz or beryllium tweeters.
ATI oems for Levinson so I am not surprised that the innards are almost the same.
yes, ATI builds for levinson because they had to go to a reliable manufacturer and not keep making the same mistakes of building unreliable units since that was clearly hurting them. I can tell you that these amps sound VERY DIFFERENT. I do find it funny how the vast majority think that because ati makes it, then both amps must sound the same. However, what people DON'T realize is that they are voiced VERY VERY differently. The ati is more forward as I stated above so maybe it would benefit from a laid back preamplifier. I would take the classe 5200 or 5300 ANY DAY over the ati. Why? I am not a fan of bright or forward sounding amps. The most I can handle are the high frequencies from Krell. That is as far as I want to go. The BEST multichannel amp I have heard is the classe HANDS DOWN. However, a 3ch levinson along with a 2 channel would beat a classe 5200 or 5300. I have done this comparison.
kaifupdaddy, did you ever get a chance to do the demo of all the amps you wanted to do? Cant wait to read your review!!! So far I have owned ATI At6003 amp and find whitecamaross review of that amp spot on, thank you whitecamaross!!! Sold ATI now thinking whether pass labs 250.8 or
mark levinson 532h....any input whitecamaross?
i sold my 532h last month and owned the 350.5 soon after that. I loved the 350.5 so much that I went for a 250.8 which is what I currently own as of 3 weeks ago.
Spectacular sounding amplifier. Far superior to any amp I’ve owned. I can give you more of my opinion if you want. Message me directly.
I would be interested in your comparison between the 532H and Pass Labs
Are you selling your levinson 533h whitecamaross?
I sent a PM to you a few days ago. Are you going to address my query?
i have been away from this thread for over a year. During this time, i have been through quite a few amps and speakers (Salon 2s,GoldenEar Triton 1s, Dynaudio C4s, B&W 803 D2s, B&W 800 Nautilus) i now own the Martin Logan Renaissance speakers which totally destroy my former Dynaudio C4s and totally squash the Salon 2s. So far, these are the amps that i can remember off the top of my head:
- PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
- Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
- Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
- Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
- Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass. It is articulate sounding too
- Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
- Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn't slam me to my listening chair.
- Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn't call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
- Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
- Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
- Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
- Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
- My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
I've started a new thread for those of you who want to follow me and my experience with amplifiers. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/my-long-list-of-amplifiers-and-my-personal-review-of-each
Very nice write up- Happy Listening!
Thanks for the review whitecamaross,
did you find the XA30.8 lacking in power or were the X350.5/250.8 simply better sounding?
Please see my other thread.