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Manual preamp volume control - Audible Illusions M3B

Is it true that most preamps with remote control have a lot to do with their sound quality?
Do vintage preamps with manual precision volume control have the inherent advantage over modern preamps with remote control?
After a few months of mulling over preamp upgrade, I took a plunge on Audible Illusions M3B preamp after reading some posts on the advantage of manual volume control over remote.
Some, including Michael Fremer, considered AI M3A was one of the best preamp.
" All of this adds up to what is clearly one of the finest-sounding, best-built full-function preamplifiers in the world—and the reviews from around the world reflect that."
https://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/316/index.html

M3B is considered much better than M3A. AI still produces M3B (preamp with MM phono) and M3B MC (phono for low output) with no remote control.
If the answer to my two questions are true, when most super charged audiophiles search for holy grails, why they choose preamps with remote control over those with manual control, and prefer convenience over sound quality?


128x128ihcho
13 responses Add your response
artemus_5's avatar
artemus_5
1,911 posts
 
CJ is well known for their preamps. Their top of the line GAT has a remote. I doubt them or any good Mfg would use remotes  if they were inferior
ihcho's avatar
ihcho OP
609 posts
 
Well, then the answers to my questions are No and No?
stereo5's avatar
stereo5
6,248 posts
 
I went from a Modulus 3B to a McIntosh tube preamp for 3 reasons. First was customer service from AI is almost non-existence and as Art Ferris is way up there in age, I worried what would happen when he passes. Second was I am getting very lazy in my old age and wanted a full function tube preamp with a remote. Third was I had a Modulus 3 and a 3A before the 3B and was tired of the AI and wanted to try a different brand.
ihcho's avatar
ihcho OP
609 posts
 
Well, I have at least another 10 years or so to reach to a point that I would not want to get up and change the volume or source. So, I can keep this for next 10 years. Anyway, I can use my second system with remote control.
I’ve read about horrible delays of services from AI, but interestingly Art was very responsive to my simple question through email. Hope he remains that way for another 10 years.
So, by the way, was M3B a noticeable improvement over 3A? I haven’t read anybody saying no.
How does M3B compare with Mac pre?
For my systems - Plinius SA102 (upgraded) and Gershman Grand Avant Garde - M3B outperforms my Plinius M16P and PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium. I still cant' believe a preamp makes this much difference in sound quality.
I don’t know how much it has to do with the volume control, but M3B is a clear winner. This motto applies to M3B IMHO: simple is better, and less is more.
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,394 posts
 
There are different implementations. Some use a motorized potentiometer while other use solid state attenuators. Which one is best? Both also require circuitry for the remote operation which could impact sound quality.
russ69's avatar
russ69
3,360 posts
 
Just off the top of my head...AI uses two separate volume controls and says they are stepped attenuators. So it should have a quality volume pathway. Others can have motorized stepped attenuators so no handicap there either. The one to look out for is digital volume controllers that drop bits to control volume (not really sure they drop bits but some digital signal is dumped and lost). 
ihcho's avatar
ihcho OP
609 posts
 
Right, they use  Dual-Mono Left & Right Stepped Attenuator Volume Controls.
So, motorized stepped attenuator with remote works pretty much the same as manual control and has no disadvantage on sound?
Is analog volume control the same as motorized stepped attenuator?
How do you know whether a preamp volume is controlled by a motorized stepped attenuator or digital chipset?
russ69's avatar
russ69
3,360 posts
 
"....How do you know whether a preamp volume is controlled by a motorized stepped attenuator or digital chipset?..."

Beats me but the manufacturer usually is very proud of a good volume control and will say something about it in the sales brochure. 
ihcho's avatar
ihcho OP
609 posts
 
According to specs, PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium has the ALPS Blue Velvet motorized volume control and Plinius M16P has ALPS motorized unit.
Are they the same kind as Precision Stepped Attenuators used in M3B?

stereo5's avatar
stereo5
6,248 posts
 
No.
ihcho's avatar
ihcho OP
609 posts
 
Thx.
l will take no as Precision Stepped Attenuators used in M3B is a better technology in volume control to produce quality sound.
I still like to hear your opinion on Mac preamp. Does it sound as good as M3B in your system?
stereo5's avatar
stereo5
6,248 posts
 
The Mac tube preamp in my system is the best and last preamp I will purchase. One of the big problems with all the Modulus series preamps was it put out way too much gain. The highest I could set the volume lever was at 10 O Clock which did not give me much of a volume range and when they went with the stepped controls when the 3A came out, it was worse. That was my biggest gripe. My second biggest gripe was the tube hiss that came and went over and over and I always used the tubes recommended by AI.

The John Curl MC gold preamp in my 3A and 3B was better than the MC preamp in my Mac pre.  That is the only area that the Modulus was better than the Mac. The Mac has an ease I didn’t get with the AI plus it is dead quiet.  My preamp has 6 tubes and I can Jack the volume wide open with out any hiss, not even a peep. 
ihcho's avatar
ihcho OP
609 posts
 
Thanks for your response and it is good to hear that you like your Mac and you are happy with it.
It was recommended for me to change M3B tubes every two year or so, and that tells that  M3B pushes harder than most other tube preamps.
I wonder how many would purchase $5K preamp, knowing that they have to change the set of tubes ($300+) every two years. With light listening, it may be 3~4 years, but still I think it is more often than most other tube preamps.
For my system, I don't hear any tube hiss from M3B. I put the normal listening volume level at 12 ~ 1 o'clock. That is the same level with Plinius M16P. On PrimaLuna it has to be 2 ~ 3 o'clock. No wonder PrimalLuna preamp tubes last much longer than AI Modulus series preamp. Anyway, I prefer the sound from M3B much better than PrimaLuna.
If I own M3B long enough to realize that the tubes need to be changed every 2 years, then I might feel different, but as of now, I am happy with the sound of M3B, and I don't mind to change the volume manually.

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