Magfan,
Good luck on the frames. It sounds like a project to which you are looking forward.
The Krell is still impressing me and I seem to have forgotten about the Mac sound because there is so much more to hear with the Krell.
I played an old Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" CD and heard things I had not heard before. The Krell helps the Maggies to differentiate the instruments so you can hear them better. More timbre and tone as well. |
I currently own MG 12's and like them a lot as they are very musical. However, they lack that bit of detail that helps with the sound decay and placement of the individual instruments in the soundstage.
I have auditioned the 1.7's twice.
The first time was in a oddly shaped open room, roughly 18 by 18 foot, that led to an open hallway. This was with a BAT VK300x 150 wpc amp. Did not like then at all. Sounded thin to me, but it was a bad listening space.
Then I listened to the same pair of speakers in a smaller room, 10 by 16 foot. The front wall was the long wall. They were about eight feet apart and I was sitting about six feet a way. Marantz reference amp at 115wpc. Sounded much better, more musical, and articulate bass was there.
By the way, I should be picking up my new pair of 1.7's after Thanksgiving. |
Hi Magfan,
Understand your comments and may yet have second thoughts. Time will tell.
I am receiving full trade in value on the 1.2's, so for $1000, the better resolution and better soundstage seemed hard to beat.
The bass was an interesting decision. I am not wood working capable so to buy good frames is $500 plus. Compared to the $1000 cost to me for the 1.7's, their deeper bass along with the other quality improvements, seemed like the way to go.
Now the other interesting part. I talked to my McIntosh dealer about upgrading the MA63000 because I knew I was missing something on the edges and the decay. It has only 160 wpc into 4 ohms. Plus it just does not seem loud enough.
The dealer was not certain that the top Mac integrated, MA7000, with 250 wpc into 4 ohms. would help me.
He suggested that I try the Krell S300i. It has 300 wpc into 4 ohms. His reasoning was that I needed another view of what I could do and maybe Mac was not the answer.
At first I thought that it sounded tinny but once my tubed CD player and the amp "warmed up", I realized I was hearing more detail. For example, there is a Donna Krell album, I think that it is called "Look of Love", that has heavy brushes on track 2. It sounded real without hash at the point of decay.
The trade off is that the Krell sounds less "warm" than the MA6300.
So...to get the power I need and the Mac "warmth" I would need to move to Mac separates at about $10,000, which is not something I can afford.
Obviousily, I am thinking about a lot all at once here. I will get the 1.7's and go from there.
By the way, tell me again what amp you are using with the 1.2's? |
Maplegrovemusic,
I just picked up my 1.7's last night so this is a very early comment. I am upgrading from the 1.2's. I have started out with tweeters to the outside.
My initial impression is that the 1.7's are much better than the 1.2's in a lot of ways. Sound details that I never heard before seem to jump out of the things. The bass is really much stronger. On certain tracks I can feel it which never happened with the 1.2's. The bass is not boomy and is very articulate. The different timbre of the instruments is noticeable.
I think that placement with the 1.7's will be a bit tricky and understand your soundstage comment. They seem to need more space than the 1.2,s. In my first night of listening I was never able to obtain a good solid center as I moved the speakers around. However, they are supplying so much more detail that I may not be hearing the center even though it is there.
There seems to be a larger sweetspot. Also, I noticed that when I sat outside of one speaker, I could still hear sound from the other speaker across the room. Very impressive.
Finally, I was worried that the 1.7's sounded a little bit clinical in the dealer showroom. In my home environment, that is not the case. The 1.7's are engaging and musical.
Time will see how they improve. |
Hi Magfan,
I started with the tweeters to the outside for no special reason.
The currrent instructions for the 1.7's, just two sheets of paper with a thank you letter on top, no longer recommend tweeters in.
They explain how to orient the speakers based on serial numbers and that the listener should determine what sounds best to them. They do recommend toeing in the speakers to the center of the listening position and advise against them being parallel to the front wall for better phasing.
So...tweeters in, tweeters out and then back to front...tweeters in and tweeters out...and that is before any mods!
Second day of listening - a lot of bass that you can cleanly hear and differentiate instruments.
Still amazed at little details that pop out at you. On some Stevey Ray Vaughn cuts, the hum of the guitar amps is clearly audible for what it is at the end of the tracks. On a Joan Jett CD I clearly heard fingering thta wsa not audible before |
I had seen tweeters "in" on the net. However, the speakers were shipped from Minnesota the week of Thanksgiving and the new instructions do not recommend tweeter orientation. |
Hi Magfan,
You are right about waiting some amount of time for things to settle in...and then test the options as you summarized.
The main listening position that can be incrementally adjusted is as follows:
The speakers are about four feet from the front wall that is 13 feet long and is a three foot deep alcove. The room then opens up to 18 feet wide so that one speaker is about 3 feet from a side wall and the other speaker is about 7 feet from the other sidewall.
The middle of the speakers are about eight feet apart. The main listening position is about seven and a half feet from the line between the speakers. There is approximately 20 feet behind the listening position and the ceilings are ten feet.
The Magnepan instructions did recommend that the speakers should be toed in towards the main listening position. This definitely improved the soundstage and gave a focused center. In my listening space, without the toe in, the speakers did not focus very well.
While it is early, I still am impressed with the bass. It is articulate and I can tell the differences in timbre. I also can feel the bass if it is on the recorded material. This surprised me as that never happened with the 1.2's.
I am also still continuing to hear a lot more detail and it still feels like things are popping out at me and that never happened before either with the 1.2's.
We shall see. |
Hi Magfan,
I do need to tighten up on my geometry! While being well aware that minute adjustments can make a big difference in sound, I have neglected the record keeping which will become more important as the speakers are broken in and I start to play with tweeters in and out, etc.
By the way, do you have any experience with sound pressure level and frequency response measurements?
Quite often, these items are discussed on various forum threads. I wondered what you thought about this aspect of our hobby and if you spent much time with it. |
Hey Magfan,
Are you out there?
You may remember that I received my Maggie 1.7's just after Thanksgiving and originally set them up with the tweeters on the outside.
Since then, the speakers have about 100 hours on them so I decided to start playing with the setup.
I just switched the speakers today so that the tweeters are now on the inside.
Fantastic improvement! The sound is tighter, more focused and more detailed. It is an amazing change.
For example, I have a Willie Nile CD called "House of a Thousand Guitars". The sixth track is a song called "Now That The War Is Over". Christopher Hoffman plays a cello line that you can hear underneath the piano and vocals.
It was...well...indistinct with tweeters out. With tweeters in, the cello sounds like a cello and you can almost feel the bow on the strings. There is amazing texture to the sound.
Wow! |
You are right - a free upgrade in about five minutes!
I am going to savor this for a while before I flip them from front to back.
Just seems a little too far out for my sensibilities at this point! |
One other thing I forgot to mentin is that Magnepan provides plastic washers that can be used to tilt the speakers. They fit between the foot brackets and the speaker itself.
When inserted this has the effect of tilting the speakers slightly back.
I have done this and did not notice a real change in the sound. I have left them that way. My suspicion is that this would have an effect depending on the distance between the listening chair and the speakers. |
Magfan, or anyone, any opinions about the best approach for Maggie stands?
There seems to be the type that completely frames the maggies or the "Mye" approach which seems to primarily add bracing on the "back" side of the speakers. |
