I appreciate your question. I am considering the 1.6 and have a friend/dealer who will let me borrow a pair for a week. Before I put him to the trouble I want to know more and your question is my question. I am using the Hsu VTF-3R mark 2 in my large room and between that and my Dynaudio floorstanders I am used to bass flat to 20 Hz and -3 dB to 16 Hz. Because the price of the 1.6 is so reasonable, I could get another Hsu sub. I anxiously await responses!
IMO you want a sealed design. Look at Rel, ML (Depth I think), Paradigm Servo 15. Lots of people praise the Velodyne DD seires but, I have never heard one.
Rel Strata III.....excellent match for Magnepan 1.6's.
I've used a pair in a large room with 1.6's.
A non-philosophical post?
Mr. Tennis you disappoint.
The ML Depth is a big bang for the buck and should you use its high pass filter into your maggies I think that it would blend well with minimal veiling of the music. Stereo Depths are killer but in a small to med size room one should be sufficient.
Mr Tennis - I have the Maggie 3.6R's and have found ( after much experimentation, I might add) that you want to go with a sealed box sub, otherwise the bass lags behind the planar midrange too much. I use the Revel B12 Concerta with a short all silver(for speed) sub cable. My speaker cables/interconnects to the amps are a combioned 14 ft, so this also helps with the "speed" issue. The Concerta B12 is perfect with the planars and I would think one would do it for you. I am in a large room, so I needed two of them. The price is right as well - at $995.oo, these are VERY good subs, with a parametric equalizer as a bonus. I have heard teh Rels work as well, but I can tell you that the Hsu Research subs do not blend in well with the planars - I tried a VTF3 and it was WAY too slow. I hope this helps. John
Which ever sub you decide to go with, 60 Hz might be too high for the xover point. In my old largish room, the 1.6s were flat to 40 Hz. If I were you I would run them full range and bring the sub in around 30-35.
But Mrtennis, what is the true existentialistic meaning of this post :-)
Seriously, having owned a pair of 1.6's I can tell you that they need a s**t load of power to bring out their true bass potential. Minimum that I would consider is 250 wpc [stable, into 4 ohms] for SS amps. Never ran 'em with tubes. I would also recommend a speaker stand [forget who makes the Maggie stands] or fashion some kind of clamp device then anchor studs from the top corners to the wall [doubtful WAF, though!]
I have been happy for years with a single Vandersteen 2Wq with my 1.6s. This is a terrific combination and the vandy has the speed to keep up with the Maggies, as well as tight, tuneful and remarkably unintrusive bass.
The x-over on this sub is such that you must have the ability to place it in the line level signal between your pre- and power amp. It will work with integrateds that have an effects loop or pre-out/power-in loop.
The x-over rolls off the signal below 80 hz that ends up going to your speakers. Conversely, the sub rolls off frequencies as it approaches 80 hz so you get a nice seamless transition with a smooth handoff. The sub actually gets its signal from your amplifier as opposed to the x-over itself. In this way, the sub is working with the same signal as the speakers which is another nice point of integration (since it's essentially part of your speaker system).
You will need to know the input impedance of your power amp should you acquire a 2Wq, as the crossover needs to be matched to that figure--otherwise, your frequency "hand off" will be in the wrong place.
I am pondering adding a second, but only for the fun of it (vs. any need for more bass).
Mrtennis, haven't I told you that you're chasing a chimera? Repent and get thee a fine floorstanding dynamic speaker. But, if you are intent on your quest, some fine stereo subs would be REL or Vandersteen. For predominantly two channel listening you would not need any more than the older Vandy 2W's, which I used with 1.6's at one time. They have been the one constant during the time I have moved through six pairs of mains (Maggie 1.6's; Eminent Technology LFT-8A's (then, two pair of E.T.'s stacked); Canary Audio Zamas, Apogee Calipers, Chapman Audio T-7's (which I still have) and Chapman Audio T-77's).
hi doug, i have been advised to run a subwoofer up to 40 hz.
doesn't the vandersteen have a passive cross over which goes to 80 hz ? if so that may be a problem. my preamp has 2 main outputs, so ideally, i would send a signal from the main out to an amp which would power the subwoofer. i would like to run the 1.6s full range and blend the sub. is this possible with the rel ?
I'm with Ozzy on this one........ I have 1.6's and run them full out with a REL Storm III set at about 35Hz. TO my ears things sound pretty good.
If you are going to run them fullrange you will need to set the sub to a low (maybe 40hz) crossover to avoid cancelation. I have tried all of the different ways to blend subs with speakers and using teh high pass filter usually makes for the most seamless transition. Sure YOU would know that there are extra electronics in the way and that the maggies are not being allowed to do all they can do but, the proof is in the pudding.
The Vandersteen subs are completely unique. I think that the crossover frequency can be changed on them. Plus all of the Vandersteen stuff is time aligned.
I own both 3.6s and 1.6s - I would first maximize the inherent bass and then add 1-2 subs. I have both Velodyne DD15 and Rel Stadium III (in seperate setups). I considrered the ML also. All will work well. But definately run the 1.6s full and find the optimum in your room between 35-45hz. My favorite is the rel. For the 1.6s - the Storm III would be my choice. WHat do you listen too ?? this will make a difference. I listen to 95% acoustic Jazz and Rel is great. For Rock and HT I use Velodyne more. I use to have a used HSG15 and it was great too. In 2 channel listening I do not use the subs - only in my MC set ups and HT.
Thease speakers require 3 things to maximize thier inherent bass:
1) STANDS - Mye stands are excellent and the stealth version gets them out of the way - but any equivalent will help. The stands get then up a little and make them rock solid - somehing they are not otherwise. Adding stands was by far the biggest change audibly of anything I did with my 3.6s.
2) Optimize room position - can't under estimate this - get those things out away from back and side walls.
3) Quality power. MAke shure your amp doubles into 4 ohm loads. meaning a 250W amp in 8 ohm doubles to 500 in 4 ohm. Also look for a high damping factor. I use a Musical fidelity 300 Integrated amp that is 350w in 8 and 600 in 4. This amp is seperate SS amps in 1 chasis with seperate tube pre inside. A used Innsersound ESL-300 would be nice too.
Unfortunately - Maggies are great at thier price point as a speaker, but really require higher quality gear to really make them sing. My 3.6s didn't really bloom in bass till I fed them nearly 1000 watts in 4 ohms.
Good Luck !!
I'm considering a pair of 1.6s.
Would the Plinius SA102 be an adequate amp? Class A, 125WPC into 8ohms, 250WPC into 4.
Mrtennis, the Vandy crossover will eliminate signals below 80hz going to the mains (1.6's), which will help them. Anything below the 80hz mark is handled by the Vandies. So, it's a non-issue where the low end of the 1.6's are. The problem would come into play if you're trying to mate a different sub to the Maggies' 40hz low end.
I think Akozar made a good observation about the Mye Stands. They make a significant increase in the 1.6's bass response. I would also like to add that adding a pair of Nuforce 9.02's amps to you system may really elimiminate your need for a adding a sub. However if you are suffreing form chronic audiophile (toys) addiction (like myself) you really need to go with two subs. And you will have to experiment with their placement. Contrary to what many sales people say. You can not just throw a sub in the cornor of the room and expect it to integrate very well with your maggies. Hey good luck! Isn't this hobby great!
I've owned maggies for 20 years and all of the above suggestions are very good. Before you try a sub, I would suggest bi-wiring with the largest high quality cable you can find for the low freq and then doubling it. Maggies will use all the power you can feed them and the cable can restrict this.
I ran MMGs with a Paradigm 12" sub and NHT sub amp. Seemed to work well. To get it right download an RTA program to you PC (maybe RAL) get a half decent mic and use your PC to get the set up and settings right.