I've asked myself a similar question regarding my Mini 2. So far I've resisted because of the price difference between a used Mini 2 and a new Q1. I also greatly prefer the aesthetics of the Mini. The V2 is a great speaker, IMO, though I slightly prefer the Mini 2 which are more expensive. There may be enough of an improvement over the V2 to pay for the upgrade.
I think the only way to answer this question for yourself is to try to hear the Q1 in your system. If you can't find a dealer willing to let you try them, at least hear the Q1 at a dealer demo with similar electronics and source to what you own. Only you can answer the question about whether or not it is worth the price difference to change. There may be some other area in your system which would benefit more for the same amount of money.
Thanks. I actually listened in the dealer's room. Mids and highs are a huge improvement, but the room was 600+ sq feet and hence it's difficult to judge the bass.
I had Wilson Duette before and didnt hv enough bass in my room (170 sq feet), hence a bit concerned about Q1 regarding the bass...
My room is 15' X 16' (240 sq feet) and the bass I get from the Mini 2 is tremendous. I use Pass XA160.5 because the Mini is a tough load and I listen pretty loudly when the music calls for it. The Q1 is supposed to extend even further in the bass. I think the Wilson Duette is ported while the Magico speakers are not. So the bass will have a very different character.
When I play the Sheffield Drum Track LP, the bass impact, extension and clarity is about all I could hope for in my small room. It shatters my ears when I turn it up. My buddy with Sashas doesn't get the bass I have from these two-way speakers.
Ask the dealer if you can demo the Q1 in your system. It's the only way to know for sure. What amps do you have? Magico needs lots of good, clean power.
There's a review of the Q1 here:
Does your dealer have the new S1s?
Very interesting review Kana. Thanks for posting it. I wish more reviews had
such extensive measurement data. The room in which the review took place
seems very reflective and underdamped. I also wonder if those Transparent
cables were reconfigured for the new speakers or if they still matched the
Wilsons. Apparently, that is critical to getting the most out of the system.
This review is not posted on Magico's website.
The dealer in my country would not permit in-house demo...
People who write reviews tend to say along the lines that "given the physical size" the bass is tremendous... I am sure that's the case but it is such a big caveat. I listen to classical 99% of the time - mainly piano and orchestral. I dont need strong and powerful bass but it's important to portray that "weight" in orchestral music - i didnt get that via the duette...
I am using Jeff Rowland 625 - it's working well with the V2.
just to clarify, i was refering to reviewers in magazine - i read a few which says that the speaker produces the best bass among speakers of similar sizes...
Colloms Review of the Q1 certainly makes for interesting reading. There seems to be little evidence of acoustic controls (bass traps / absorption / diffusion etc) in Colloms listening room and I can't help but feel this would influence the observations made. Colloms subjective view of 84dB sensitivity (very low) and bass extension of 46Hz (-3dB) would be very disappointing for some readers. IF true this would mean other products notably the Raidho C-1.1 / D-1 would better the Q1 for both efficiency and bass extension. I don't think Magico would be happy with the review. Clearly the product is not right for Colloms open plan and highly reflective room and I dare say this has led to the somewhat negative conclusion.
>> IF true this would mean other products notably the Raidho C-1.1 / D-1 would better the Q1 for both efficiency and bass extension.
How do you know that? Have they ever been, subjectively, measured? I am trying to find some "real" data on these, so far not much success. Please point us in the right direction, Thanks.
Colloms wrote a review on the Raidho C-1.0 sometime back. In that review he also discussed efficiency, noise and frequency response. Suggest you dig that out.
Other than the -6db at 39Hz bass extention figure, the other things that stick out in MC's Q1 review are the low frequency distortion measurements and max loudness.
If you read the review of his WA S3 speakers, you'll see that in his room
the bass extention is -6db at 26Hz and max loudness is 6dbs higher.
>>Suggest you dig that out
Could not find the review anywhere. The C-1 always sounded pretty lean at shows (and the D-1 at the last CES). It is hardly a 5Â in a pretty small box, and if it is indeed an 88db efficient, it will not go very low. It is physics after all.
Thank you for the link, Kiwi. I read the review completely different then you. Especially the part that says: "In-room bass goes down to 30Hz... which is impressive for a speaker of this size". Overall a great review of the Q1. The C1/D1 are great products, no need to make them what they are not. Their bass extension is around the 50Hz, not nearly as deep as the Q1, that is why they are more efficient. Read MC review again, he explains the relationship
I have replaced a pair of Evolution acoustics MM3 (500lbs per piece) with a pair of Q1. I don't regret the MM3 at all. It doesn't go down to 16Hz like MM3, but it is doing all the rest much better. I use them in a completely treated, dedicated room (see the thread "new home for my Magico Q1" thread in whatsbestforum to see some pics of the room). The room is extensively treated with bass traps resonators, so no room resonance to help. It still sounds great.
I have listened to Q1 against Mini 2 in the same room. Q1 gets more lower, is more transparent, images better and have a sweeter, less in your face tweeter. I am sorry for the bad news: it is a much better speaker, so you should listen to them only if ready to buy them ;-)
I have heard also the Raidho in several occasions, but not in same room as my Q1. Good speakers, but not great. Personally I don't get what is all the fuzz about it.
PS: one last comment, before judging the Q1, make sure they are well burnt it. Sounds improved A LOT over the first 1000 hours.
btw.. you should listen also to S1. Very impressive for less than half of Q1 price. I would say it is significantly better than V2.
I have ordered a pair I will use as surround speakers, should arrive in one month. Will be interesting to compare them with my Q1, in the same room. Would guess that Q1 still wins, but by a narrower margin than what the price difference suggests.
I just saw the S1 at my local dealer. Lovely looking speaker. I went back the next day to listen to it but they had swapped it out for the S5. The dealer told me that he thinks the S1 sounds much more like the Q1 than the S5 sounds like the Q5. Perhaps the S1 is the great value in the Magico line today.
I'm actually hoping for a Q2 someday. That might get me to upgrade from my MIni 2. I would like to buy the Q3 but I think it is too much speaker for my room and I prefer the looks of the Mini to the Q1. I'm sure the Q1 sounds fantastic.
Evolution Acoustics and Magico are very different sounding speakers.
Magico Mini 2 will always be a great speaker Q1 sounded wonderful i little dry for my taste.Magico Mini 2 looks 100% better Dude!!
why not go to an electrostic, like the martin logan summit. Electrostic resolution (still superior to any cone and dome speaker), no crossover till your down to the 300 hz region, and adjustable bass controls for room tuning with extension to the mid 20's - all for only 15k - now that's a real upgrade.
I think you have missed my point, which was I wasn't happy with the Q1 review, either in terms of MC's listening environment or some of the measurements made. I was being a bit sarcastic about the Magico / Raidho comparison. Clearly the larger driver on the Q1 should go lower in bass - but that was not MC's "in room" finding was it?
According to the "Lab Report" in Vol 5/No 2 the old Raidho C-1.0 (the 1.1 BTW goes lower) had in room Âextension to 29Hz at moderate powerÂ. MC cites 30Hz for the Q1 which looks odd given the bigger bass driver and the fact that Magico rate the Q1 at 32Hz -3dB (presumably measured anechoically). My point if you carefully re-read my earlier comment is the room is influencing the observations made and a quick look at the waterfall display shows some of the issues. I am not surprised that the HiFi critic review is not posted on MagicoÂs site. The measured results are quite far from the manufacturers specification.
What happens if a dinner guest sticks a finger in the Q1 tweeter? I worry.
Thank you, Stereotaipei.
I live in Hong Kong and I dont think S1 has arrived... I thought about it too given my room is small, so maybe I will wait and give it a listen.
Your room and system looks mightily impressive!!!!
Its great to be a high roller and buy every Magico!!
I don't buy every magico... but I kept listening to other brands and didn't find something superior, so it seems I will end up with 2 Magico systems: Q1 in living room, Q7 in dedicated music room (completed with Magico center speaker and S1 when I use it as HT).
I have now the Q1 in the dedicated music room, see my system page...
The S1 should arrive in one month. I am curious to hear the head to head comparison with the Q1, with same room and same equipments.
Both are over priced and sonically boring.
Check out the Berlin mini by dc 10 it's way more MUSICAL and CHEAP!! and about the same size. I had V2 and loved the look and build but the sound was average. IMHO
If you hate Magico keep on trucking!!Its ok DUDE!!
Stereotaipei, what other speakers did you auditioned before settling on Magico Q1?
The Mini II is a CLASSIC speaker!
It demonstrated(to me) that it could easily stand up to much bigger designs and actually embarrassed many of them."This" with a smaller foot print and almost perfect design.There is a good reason these are sealed boxes.
IMO,the economy has stopped it's production(the cabinet was imported and very expensive...not to mention gorgeous) but those owning it are fortunate and smart to hold on....I believe the newer versions,with the squared off boxes will fit in the pro applications,like recording studios a bit easier and keep profits coming in.Still good sounding but not in the Rolex/Breitling class aesthetically,like the stunning MINI!
EBM has about as great a MINI II system as anyone could ever imagine!!!
When I looked replacement for the MM3, I listened to speakers from Raidho, TAD, Kharma, Marten, Magnepan, Wilson, Lansche, Focal Utopia, Avalon, Gyia, Joseph audio, Estelon, Hansen, KEF, MBL, Vandersteen, Sonus Faber, YG, Rockport, Nola, Aerial.... for each brand at least 2-3 different speakers.
I am lucky to live in a region where it is easy to hear most brands, and I am traveling all the time across the globe, so easy for me to go to listen to new stuff.
What I liked the most besides Magico is Gyia (but cabinet is not stable and drivers look fragile), TAD.
Stereotaipei, It appears we have similar taste. I've narrowed down to the same 3 speaker makers except my order of preference is different.
I'm going for the Tad E1 if it's 90% of the Ref1. Probably can't demo them until Newport show.
I contacted JTinn via his company website for a local EA dealer to demo speakers but never got a reply so I guess they are off the list.
Mini2 does not compare to Q1, IMO.
If this is the case you should jump on a pair.Have you heard both.You may be right however Mini 2 is still better than most.
Sirspeedy, Great post. I agree that the Mini 2 is a classic. I did just take a close look at the Q1 at a dealership. It was in the hallway, so I couldn't hear it. It has very high build quality and looks quite good actually, though a very different aesthetic to the Mini. I am surprised by how much smaller it looks. Almost precious. The finish is excellent and I like the reveals around the edges. I do really like the look of the larger floor standing Q3.
I hope to someday hear Ebm's Mini2-based system. It must be wonderful.
The mini 2 is a classic, great speaker, still better than most current speakers. But I had the privilege to listen to it in same room as the Q1, the Q1 does everything better (bass extension, imaging, transparency and sweeter highs).
I believe the Q1 is more expensive to produce than the Mini, so I would doubt that decision to move from mini to Q1 was driven by cost. Machining and high quality anodizing like you find on the Q1 is much more expensive than stacking layers of birch. Reason for moving to aluminum with extensive bracing is stiffness. The Q1 cabinet is more inert.... actually it is dead inert, which leads to a more transparent speaker.
Yes, it is shocking how small the Q1 is compared to the Mini. But internal volume is same or even a bit larger (I asked Alon Wolf when I met him at Munich show last year).
I love the aesthetic of both Mini and Q1. I just think that the Q1 is a more "intemporal design", because it is more neutral. So for long term, I would rather have the Q1 in my living room.... or the Q7... but for other reasons! ;-)
Ill be very happy with 2nd best for now dude!!When i heard Q1 i thought it was a little dry sounding Magico Mini 2 sounded warmer to me.I liked Mini 2 over V2 or V3 thats my taste however.Heard the S5 is wonderful have not heard it yet.Wolf is a great salesman as well.
Yes, I would be also very happy with the Mini 2, and I also prefer mini 2 than V2.
No, the Q1 is not dry sounding, actually it is warmer than the Mini 2 (tweeter less in your face). But this is true only if they are fully burned in. The first 400 hours, the sound on my Q1 changed a LOT. At the beginning, the highs were too aggressive to my taste, now, they are very liquid, I can listen for hours without getting tired of it.
I wouldn't consider the Mini2 to be 2nd best dude. There are a lot of speakers that sound better, but that's my opinion. The important thing is that you're happy with them. Dude.
Your opinion means less than nothing on this thread.Have a nice day Keep on trucking.
Have you ever heard V2,Q1 or Mini2.
Finally found MC Raidho review at a local dealer. I am not sure how you arrived at some of your findings, but at least as far as FR and efficiency goes, I see a very different picture then you. The C-1 are only 85dB efficient. Not a big of a difference to the Q1 as you allude to (0.5dB). Their 6db down point is at 45Hz. The Q1 are 84.5dB efficient and are -6dB at 39Hz. In terms of efficiency, they are just about the same, were the Q does go lower. If we take 1KHz as a reference point, the C1 has about 10dB less output at 20Hz then the Q1 (in room). If we take 100Hz as a reference, then the C1 is almost 20dB (!!) down at 20Hz. The C1 FR responses from 48-30K is +3.5Hz, -5bd (!!), were the Q1 46-25K is only +/- 3dB.
The C1 are quite depressed between 1K-6K (-5dB) and almost 5dB up at 10K. (No wonder they sound ÂairyÂ). With about 4dB extra output at 100Hz, I can conclude that they are ÂvoicedÂ more than they are linear. MC measurements of the C1 are not very impressive (Did I mentioned the weight, which is less than Â½ of the Q1). In all fairness, they are also Â½ the price. Not sure what is the motive to compare it to a speaker that is clearly in a different category on all counts. The C1 should be compared to the new Magico S1, I donÂt think the results will be much different but at least they are comparable in price.
Ever heard V3 against Mini 2.
I may be wrong, but from the HKG location and from the pics, it sounds like a Q7 from the ex local dealer, Sound Chamber, which was replaced a few months ago by a new dealer, Radar (which btw was the right move as Sound Chamber was very arrogant, I hated dealing with them). Not sure if they are trying to dump their stock or just posting around Magico speakers at low price to annoy the new dealer... when they got dumped by Wilson a few years back they did everything they could to try to damage them.
A friend of mine saw an ad from them for a Q1 at a very low price in a local magazine, and when he called they told him "they sell it to friends only", so not sure how much of this is real.
Luckily I didnt own any magico speakers even though I can afford it.... it is Overpriced and overhyped.
Not to offend any magico owners. IMHO, 10-15k for an excellent speakers would be fine for me but 185k for a pair of speakers just does not make any sense.
I still would not buy it at 70% discount brand new.
But Absolute sound loves them DUDE!!When they get to 100k ill jump on a pair.
I bought a pair speaker based on what "absolute sound" said and tried to sell it in just after 3 months.
Dont trust them 100%. They were paid to advertise.
We should be more cautious as many unknown brand with questionable background selling for over $100k.
The envy of some... Truly pathetic.
I agree you ears are the last judge.Absolute Sound is the official press agent for MAGICO!!
Perhaps, but it was the TAS review by Valin that got me interested in the Magico Mini 2. I read the review, heard the speakers in three different systems and settings and then bought a pair. I couldn't be happier and I'm glad I read that review. For $12K used, the Mini2 is a very good speaker. The V2 can be found for about $10K used.
I haven't heard the Q1 yet. I'm sure it's better, but it is also twice the cost.
Usermanual you must have the best system on the planet,