Bhobba is absolutely right, the Magicos are brittle on many pieces, and he really is on the money with Rockports. Though I prefer the Tannoys for FAR less money than what I would consider a competitive Rockport, the Rockports are a very credible speaker that have a nice low distortion delivery. |
The Westminsters, which I listen to for hours daily, are far more seamless and integrated top to bottom. The distortion is much lower. They are far easier to drive. The are absolutely superior on voices, which is the toughest test. They are more dynamic. They scale far better.
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Dan, you have marched to the beat of your own drummer and I have no doubt that you have benefitted hugely from doing so. "Wonderful music makers" is your quote. I could not say it better.
Most readers, unfortunately, will doubt that these speakers, not using the latest buzzwords, the latest supposed high tech materials (I doubt the words "high tech" have ever been misused and clouded reality as much as they have been in high end audio) could ever compete with the latest, greatest $50k or $100k speakers. |
I am positively amazed at the wisdom, at the correct take on the sound by some folk in this thread. I am used to the big, new, heavily reviewed, heavily advertised, "state of the art" (as I roll my eyes)" owners and supporters flaming the guy mentioning a classic product made by an old company. You see, unobtainium materials and mystique, and some supposed new genius on the block always seems to trump all else. Until the bandwagon wheel falls off, and everyone goes to the next flashy company.
The support the Tannoys receive in the above posts gives me hope for sanity and truth to sometimes prevail in this marketplace. The Tannoys are that good.
I have one caveat about an above Tannoy supporter's post: I get all the detail with my Tannoys that those other named speakers do. It's just that the highs and mids are not "forced forward" with aggression that results in folks thinking that it is detail. When I listen closely to each, it is all there with the Tannoy.
The Westminsters are ridiculously good. AND, you can listen for hours and hours, the next day just wanting more. That cannot be said for many speakers at any price. |
How do you edit your own posts? I made a few typos and have a few missing words in my post above.
My corrections to the above post are in CAPS.
It should say: "I am used to the big, new, heavily reviewed, heavily advertised, "state of the art" (as I roll my eyes)" SPEAKER'S owners flaming a guy mentioning......."
It should say "I DO get all the detail with my Tannoys....."
It should say "When I listen closely to each SPEAKER THE DETAIL is all there with the Tannoy."
I hope the post is now more clear. |
Charles, could not agree more on your general point.
And, though I don't own Rockports, and have several speakers I like a lot, I won't be buying Rockports in the near future, I agree with you excellent rating of them. Nice, low distortion sound, good dynamics, good extension both ends, the sound of music. I think the side firing woofers can be challenging in many rooms, so my comments are predicted on the speaker working properly in the given room, with this being a bit more of an important proviso with Rockports than with many other brands. On the other hand, there are very few brands that can soar to the heights of Rockports! |
They are respectable in sound, nice natural sound without glaring seams. Yes, I think they are way too high priced for the performance, but no doubt they are a real pain to build and small volume. Boutique. If the current fad brands at the high end of the industry were not so mediocre then Rockport would not stand out as much. But at least they are an example of respectable sound. |
Final thought: One is fairly good hifi, for hifi folks, it will be a stepping stone for you after you tire of them. The other is a classic, something for music lovers, something folks often keep for decades, something that affords you the opportunity of using any type of amp you wish.
Simple choice: music or the "hifi game". |
Thanks Devilboy and Charles1. It is unfortunate most folks learn about music and the sound of instruments through stereo systems. It takes a long evolution for them to realize what they really should be after. Some never do, cycling through hi-fi sound making equipment through their career, as opposed to gravitating toward what sounds like music. If the mission of the hobby is to listen to equipment then this is great, they are getting what they want. However, my direct experience is that many are not satisfied, and forget more and more any musical interest they once had. For these ones I feel empathy. |
The Tannoys don't really have a "large driver" at all frequencies, though they look like single drivers all models are at least 2-way speakers, horn in the center which is not so obvious, woofer around the horn. As a horn they do have more controlled dispersion than a cone speaker. But that's due to the nature of a horn, really, not the size of driver in the case of Tannoy.
It is very likely that more of your favorite songs on your favorite albums were mastered on Tannoys than any other speaker. They are special.
The ATC are not bright but they do have more extension than the Tannoys, extension up top being limited to 13k or so. |
Aldavis, Kingdom Royal are certainly a very good speaker. But not quite as much my cup of tea as the Westminster. I like the mid-to-top area better on Westminster, the Kingdoms are not as natural to me. This is not due to the fact that they are extended and I somehow prefer rolled off speakers. Far from it, I have other speakers flat to 50khz whose upper mids and highs I prefer to the Kingdom. Rather, for me, something is lost in going to the Kingdom. Just my preference, I like the presentation of the Westminsters better. |
Stringreen, the Vandy 7 is a better speaker than most on this thead, they are truly a state of the art speaker. That's coming from a guy with lots of speakers but not a Vandy owner, so no bias toward them here. I was not really familiar with their sound when I bought most of my speakers and I don't prefer them so I won't be switching out. Since then, I have heard them for extended periods. If my gear was stolen I would very strongly consider them. They are fantastically pure, very true to life in tonal color, and amazingly dynamic (if you feed them plenty of watts) for a speaker this size and this inefficient. The Vandy 7s are one of the best in the world IMO. They do suffer from the fact that Richard does not tell tall stories about being a NASA designer, a rocket scientist, a Bell labs researcher, or any other of the mostly fabricated stories used by many in this industry. He does not do the mystique thing, or luxury goods marketing. They are just real, honest, great sounding, and refined.
Again, I'm not connected in any way, I am not a retailer, I just love great equipment. |
Aldavis, Kingdom Royal are certainly a very good speaker. But not quite as much my cup of tea as the Westminster. I like the mid-to-top area better on Westminster, the Kingdoms are not as natural to me. This is not due to the fact that they are extended and I somehow prefer rolled off speakers. Far from it, I have other speakers flat to 50khz whose upper mids and highs I prefer to the Kingdom. Rather, for me, something is lost in going to the Kingdom. Just my preference, I like the presentation of the Westminsters better. |
Given the many, many, many thousands of Tannoys that have been sold, I would say the number for sale versus the number in the field is extremely low.
I have never seen any brand of speaker that it is so common to have folks own for decades. At least 2 things are required for that: musicality (meaning sounds like music) and repairability. Good luck on that last point for so many boutique manufacturers. |
I know of nobody who has heard my system that would pick either of those speakers over the Wests. Yes, MMDV (my mileage DOES vary!).
As far as the wife factor, it surprises me how huge an issue this can be. My wife loves music, she loves the sound of the Wests, so no problem. But even if neither were true, she considers everything a partnership. If it's important to me, she'll compromise over something that only takes up 1/4 of the room!
I knew a very successful psychologist who provided his wife with a beautiful house in the best town, one of the best roads, and all other creature comforts. They had a living room that was truly never used. Perfect for audio, cathedral ceiling, great dimensions. But he was relegated to the breezeway (room between garage and house) with his prizef system. No portable heat, he'd have to turn on the portable heater an hour or more before listening, but it would still be cold (part of the country with a real winter).
In my experience this is not such an unusual story.
I, personally, would require a more equitable compromise. Apparently, most others in this thread agree!
When I hear the noise about WAF in families where the guy has this one huge hobby and love, which does not include seeing other females and being out at bars, and where he is the bread winner, I shake my head. High end systems are not exactly greasy, smelly motors being brought into the house for a rebuild. What's the beef? I like the acronym "PWF". |
ARC Ref 2 phono, Ref pre, Ref 150 amp. These are not such out of this world electronics that they are the reason for the magic......but the Basis Debut Vac and Basis Vector arm do help. |
Mature attitude and post, Charles. |
A poster wrote: "Magico speakers are so transparent to source, they demand a lot of upstream equipment"
I will add, after much experience with them, "or, they are edgy enough, due to some particular distortions, that one has to be careful about mating equipment to not push them futher and over the edge."
Nearly all products that have gained reputations for being "so neutral you have to be careful not to use the wrong equipment with them" are in retrospect generally agreed upon to have had their own edginess (which is a very nice word or distortions) which made them so sensitive.
Are Magicos more transparent than the new Maggies, which are so much more trnasparent than they ever were, and lower in distortion than they ever were? NO, the new Maggies are more transparent, more detailed, but the lower distortion makes them far easier with mating equpment. The same can be said for the Martin Logan CLX. Now, you don't need to point out the loudness, bass, dynamic advantages of the Magico. That's not the point. The point is that the assertion about products like them that are "so transparent that you need to be ultra careful about what you hook them up with" is flawed. If they get the tweeter/mid crossover solved at some iteration level, and the tweeter fully under control, everyone will be saying "Wow, now they are so much smoother". But it's always after the fact that folks admit the flaws of their pets products.
I now own none of the above, and have no affiliation with any of them, so this is not about favoritism.
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You missed the point Melba. And that point is that there are some significantly more revealing and detailed speakers that are much less sensitive to having the exact right electronics. The reason: those are lower distortion. The point is NOT whether or not the Magicos have deeper bass or play louder. The point is that they are higher distortion and that is the main reason for sensitivity to upstream components, NOT some "great transparency" that makes them so tricky to match. |
