Magico S5 Speaker - SET UP ADVICE PLEASE - Tow-In - Etc.

Thanks so much! That's were I have them now. How about Tow-in? Right at seat or crossing behind my head? I have tweeters over each outside shoulder now - maybe move out a bit more? Thx 

I wish I bought new or rather could afforded to have new. More like 40% off which I couldn't find any dealer offing for such a respected speaker. Bought from original owner who owns a few houses and these were at a house he basically moved out of a few years ago on other side of country and only went there once in a while. Because he had used so little use and was never there anymore he had shipped to Magico and had gone through and service and test, etc. and held their till sold which was great but no manual and no dealer set. I think I've got a poor match somewhere - or set up wrong - wicked bright - maybe my cables or set up or something. I need help. Wish I had a dealer but any Magico owner please help me. I know these are great speakers just not sounding great yet? So darn bright :( something wrong here / bad cable match or something but I can hear the greatness in there 

What are best cables for taming brightness?? That are not stupid expensive - I believe in cables but not paying more than my speakers or DAC or amp?

i have HiDiamond D8 Speaker Cables that are copper and pretty smooth and decent. Not Nordost Oden but compitant decent SC's.

i am running with no Preamp going direct from my Bricasti M1SE to my Pass Labs X350.5.

The IC I am using is single ended RCA Verestarr Grand Illusion Signature 2m and this is a very nice IC - not cheap and a bit warm very nice with my other speakers. 

Power cable for DAC and Preamp is the also very nice matching Verestarr Grand Illusion II 2m. These are nice and open sounding PC's - not cheap but used not insane either.

i don't see any apparent / glaring weeklink?? 

Im thinking getting a tube preamp.
BAT VK-32SE and maybe a warmer not hyper detailed IC - maybe Cardas Golden Reference or Kubaba Sosna Facination - both balanced - I chose these because a bit warm and phat but not too much so but that's where my brain is at which proves I need help?

any idea guys? Is a MIT cable better - so many models.

The way sound now is sort like you would think Spectral amps sound without MIT cables just too much of a good thing - the highs are to the heavens but too much. It lacks balance - meat - blood - midrange - earth - needs all of it.

Help !!!  

Thank you Kalai - Doug - Dave - Benzman -

I really appreciate the help. I don't want to overreact but these are way too good a speaker to be sounding the way they are - I am so glad I waited on a buying a preamp until I heard these.

I absolutely was not ready for this though to be honest!

My understanding is Magico really needs the Power of a SS amp or I wouldn't even consider a tube amp but a tube amp to drive these properly is way more than I have money wise. Heck I stripped out my analog and all my tube based components to sell to get these. I think these are super sensitive to changes.

I switched the power cable to my amp and just that made a big change in the sound. Not really any better but quite different - these certainly are finicky grumpy - angry speakers.

If they don't like something they you know it and scream it at the top of their lungs and they don't like something - hope its not the amp - know it's not the DAC. The DAC is better than the speakers IMO.

I think they hate the SS combo of my DAC direct to my amp. They hate it - I think they hate my interconnects and hate my power cables and maybe even my speaker cables but these are not bright SC's so maybe not those but they are not happy.

One of the guys was saying this is how Magico's are and why some people don't like them. I don't buy that for a second. These speakers are just not happy right now all with how they are matched... if this was their sound no one would like them and so many people do! 

my email is:

fsmithjack at YAH00 

Part of me just wants to trade out of these today to something else but these deserve the effort I think They have so many fans - I have to be able to get them to sound good! 

Dont you guys think? 

These are grumpy buggers!!! 

Thanks guys - honestly though - these are very well built and engineered speakers as is my DAC and amp and cables for that matter so to a degree they should work to a certain level?. I agree synergy wise and tweaking and getting to the sound one likes but this is different. I've owned many Wilson, Revel, Kharma, B&W and many others and used big Krell and BAT Class A amps and I know the SS slam sound. I get it - I've been thrown off by this synergy crisis though - I need to hook up a big - Phat, juicy tube pre and even if it's not the awnser just to hear what the result would be??? 

Super good idea - I am still running it single ended but that is a very good point. 

UPDATE:

Ok so I am trying out some different - well matching cables tonight guys! Psyched !!!

My local Magico dealer - the great folks at Goodwin Audio in Waltham, Ma are letting me try out some Kubala-Sosna Expression Speaker Cables and a pair of Balanced Interconnects tonight.

I am pretty excited about this. They tell me they have used Kubala-Sosna in their demo rooms with Magico and used these exact cables with S5's in the past and they know for sure they are a good match so this gets to help reduce some variables here which is awesome!

I will try these tonight and update you guys. So hope they help!
 
Also, if these don't do the trick or at least help go in the right directio Goodwin will send out a Magico guy to come over my house and check everything out and help me with set up and listen for themselves to help figure out what the problem/s are, offer me some ideas and help me out.

How are awesome are these guys? I couldn't afford to buy new Magico's from them but I can buy some cables and pay them for their service to help me so I am pretty excited. They have been awesome! This is a great dealer and I am very thankful. They as well as you guys have really reduced my audio anxiety - well for now anyways :)

I'll keep you posted. Too bad I can add pics on here?      

One of the great Audiogon guys taught my how to load some pics of my rig so you guys can see the room - set up - gear - etc 


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Al good stuff - I was hooking the subs before to the black terminal. Do you think if I ever hook them up again I should avoid that? I did it with my Rethm's and it worked good but your info is great info!

Guys I want to update you on good news I've had with system changes that helped a ton.

Rather than typing it out twice I'll copy my email response to Peter Mackay VP of Sales and Marketing for Magico. He said he read my thread asking for help and he reached out and sent me the S5 manual and Magico set up info and made himself available and said not to worry he will help me get this right which I though was awesome - here is my rnail response to Peter: 

Thank you Peter! I called Goodwins my Local Magico dealer and they were amazing they not only offered to come out to my house and check everything out and help they spoke to me about my supporting gear and mainly my cables - Speaker Cables - Interconnects - Power Cable for source and amp.

We spoke and they recommend Kobala Sosna Expression cables so I drove right over and picked up some SC IC form them to try for the night and I plugged in another PC I had but via my Conditioner vs direct to the wall recomended by an Audiogon member. Needless to say these changes really changed everything. I did the cable change each set of cables at a time.

Each change it got a bit better but when I got to the speaker cables the entire speakers character changed which I've never experienced with cables before when using decent similar prices stuff but my stuff was a very poor match.

Verestarr cables are NOT a good match for Magico's I guess or maybe at least with my gear combo but I'm so happy its changed and sounds so much better.

I still have so much to do - much more tweaking and optimization and setting up proper and refinements and the like and I'm gonna add a high quality tube preamp etc. but now I have a baseline that I can work with.

The balance before was so far off and so bright and uneven but now these Kubala Sosna cables are amazing and I'm quite pleased that the cable swap helped so much and got them within working distance. I spent a coupe hours with lazer / tape measure / levels etc which I'm sure helped quite a bit as well :)

Thanks for reaching out. 

4425 - Thank you and I totally agree. For the record I've never considered changing my Bricasti. I think I've briefly mentioned but maybe not but I think it's the best peice I own and it's the rock that everything else I have gets tethered too. These Magico's would go before the Bricasti but they are not going anywhere neither. I tried new cables last night Kobala Sosna - not sure that is correct spelling SC and XLR IC. This change allowed me to really learn about these incredible but ultra sensitive to cabling speakers but I think my set is also is putting much more undue pressure on the cables also! 

The Bricasti is not going anywhere. Every little upgrade makes it sound better and better. I love it! 

I think what the Magico are - are a super - hyper revealing transducer that I've not experienced before. They absolutely hated - loathed my silver interconnects and my speaker cables. Screaming at the top of their lungs - no no no. I got their message loud and clear.

I actually think the Bricasti direct to my Pass amp in itself is uber transparent and combined with the Magico strips the cable combo is naked and  gets overly exposed and not that they are bad cables because they certainly are not but this set up put a microscope on the cables like a level I have never experienced and assume most other have M1 direct to X350.5 to S5's = you better have a balanced and perfectly match cable SC IC combo because they are going to be naked - under a spotlight - under a microscope - and where their may be a combo or synergy weakness gets not only exposed but uber exasperated and accentuated and force multiplied - where in my old system their brightness might have been a nice antidote for something those needed or where here - no hiding and prisoners. I've never had cables make such a difference - I've changed speakers and heard less change than these cables. I've never known such cable sensitivity but my former must have had a serious mismatch in fairness to Magico. 

I added the Kobala Sosna and last night was like awe - so much better. What a difference and now this morning guess what?

They sound muted - image that. I take these any day of the week. I added my Verestarr PC back in direct to the wall and that added a bit more resolution in but I've never - ever - had cables make such a difference as it was always before a matter of flavor or voicing or preference or sophistication not the difference between bleeding ears getting a head ache to being sort of muted - that is nuts but it's what happened in the last 48 hours. I would like these Kabola Sosna just a bit more revealing and sneak some tubes in somewhere to add a little earth and I think I'm in business - but am afraid another cable will change the entire audio world of my room again - crazy - I've never dealt with this before buy learning is key - asking for help and listening and learning - the members on this site are the best for proving help and pointing out things I've never thought of.

Al that info you shared about my amp and subs - I knew none of that - I was totally in the black - you saved my $12,000 MSRP amp - paid only $5,200 used but still thanks - if I blew my amp I would have been bummed. I send my stuff to Nelson's house rather than Pass Labs because we've know each other for some time but he would have been like / you didn't read the manual you nuckle head - thanks Al

bar81 -  shadorne

I agree with both of you guys but my system never had this problem before and I'm not sure this is a root problem but there certainly well could be! 

I am open to idea's and suggestions and would love to fix it if that is the case.

I sure don't want band aids and I agree that a cable swap should not make that much difference and I want help hence my asking for help in this thread.

What makes me think I there might not be a root problem is the tear I went on a couple years when I was on the ever spinning speaker - go - round and the only thing that landed me was the Rethm Saadhana V3 Speakers.

As a point of reference here are some of the speakers I used while on the go - round. A whole bunch of Martin Logan Speakers: Aeon i, Accent i, ESL, Vista, Vantage, Spire, Summit, Wilson Watt Puppy 5, Wilson Sophia II, Revel Studio, Kharma CRM 3.2 FE w/the new black drivers, B&W 800, Sonus Faber Cermona Auditor, Sonus Faber Guarneri Evolution, Quad 57’s, Audio Physic Virgo and Virgo II's, Magnapan 1.7's and 3.7's. Merlin TSM-MMi, Ascendo C-8 Renaissance and a bunch of others. I state these only as point of reference that I am not just a single full range driver guy that doesn’t have a clue about quality dynamic loudspeakers. 

That said I must admit I am in need of learning about these Magico’s because they have presented me with challenges that none of the above have.

I was hoping it was the cables but I think you guys might be onto something when you speak to a root issue somewhere.

I know it’s not my DAC or my Amp. Those are solid units that many people can speak to. What do you guys think? Maybe my conditioner. I plug my amp right into the wall?

 Maybe have a couple dedicated 20amp lines run to my rig?

Any other ideas?  

Thanks Guys 

Also 
 

audiotroy - i sent you an email 

-- Al- thanks so much - so i need someone to make me (maybe try myself) a custom cable end mod and basically take the ground wire of both subs and on each one of the them then solder it to the a RCA but hooked only to the ground wire part in the rca plug. I can do one for each sub and then plug both of these rca into the rca of the amp and be good to go running xlr cable of course?

I actually bought a very nice and expensive pair of RCA ends when I was going to have a guy make me a nice silver phono cable but never did. I still have the plugs. Do you think I could do this myself. I have a cheap radio shack solder iron  and some silver solder? Never tried it. Is it easy to tell what is the ground in the rca plug? Thanks   

 

Thanks - I took all the sub cables for both suns and matched them and spliced them together- red with red - yellow with yellow and black to back and made into one cable and then attached nice Cardas spades so all are one - and nice and easy to hook to speaker terminals - is that ok?
thanks 

So the middle circle is for the signal and the bottom wrap around piece is what i solder it too? The one with the little teeth on it?
Thanks 

Yes I took both Reds and assumed that meant both go to right channel and the two wires were then put into a single spade to easier to deal with install - I figured that is the same as apply both via bare wire to the same channel and makes install - unstall easier then wrapping each wire around each speaker terminal - that was annoying and what I did at first and did the same for yellows and backs?? Should I have mixed the yellow and red rather than combining red with red and yellow with yellow. It's so easy to mess this stuff up ???

I'm traveling for business down to Dallas until Wednesday. Running my system entire time - can't run them too loud as to be fair to my wife and kids but running it.
moved them further apart - since the pictures and been working on tow in a lot but straight just doesn't work - miss too much info. 

So have it down to:

BAT VK32SE tube preamp
and I'm trading my speaker cables toward it.

i don't want to buy some cable I've never heard - so thinking Cardas - was thinking the Clear but they are not a really laid back so thinking 
Cardas Clear Reflection which they say add some Golden Reference - a little thicker in hip (lower mid bass) 

i know - I know - don't use cables as tuning machine but getting good synerg matters.

also thinging PAD Corvus Revision - PAD might be a good fit?

Cardas or PAD? What do you think?

Yes my much younger, beautiful new wife of 8 weeks would love me to bring home the huge bright color horn speaker things. She puts up my hobby but I try to not over do it and horns would definitely over do it x 1,000 

Audiotroy is just emailed you via Audiogon 

I gave up on the Expression's. My HiDiamonds although bright in my system were overall a much better cable. Would love the emotions but the only used one out there were sold. I am looking to buy used - good cables are way too much $$ new.

Thanks 

Thanks dcockrum - little free time down here this time around but wish I could have hit him up - that would have been cool. 

Got a line on a pair of Cardas Clear Reflection - say just a bit warmer than the clears - thinking I'll give them a try 

Pretty sure Magico is a well designed speaker, Pass Labs is a well designed amp and a Bricasti is a well designed DAC but my present speaker cables with this combo is bright - poor match -nothing too abnormal there in the Audiophile world - just looking for a better balance is all. No cable fetish here just trying to get some feedback from owners that may have first hand experience is all. 

Thanks Erik - there is tons of space to the sides and behind. Around 8 feet to the side walls about 4 feet out from back wall - I've gone with a little less tow in but they seem to need at least a little or you lose more than you gain. I bought my current speaker cables because they were a great match with my SET tube amps and triode preamps. They peeled layers off and were great with tubes. They are very revealing and what was a great match with tubes are too much of a good thing with solid state it seems. I have not tried any room treatments though and wish I knew more about how to do that because it will probably help nicely!
Thanks 

Wanted to update my threads

Hey Guys - I borrowed an inexpensive tube preamp and man what a difference. My rig was screaming for tubes. So much so now I'm thinking about a tube amp also?

I know Magico needs / should have a SS amp. I only listen at normal levels. Just don't enjoy music real loud except once in a while. Do you think an ARC Reference 150 amp can drive Magico S5 Speakers proper at normal levels in my room? I just think for my taste with these speakers tubes can go a long way. Not quite sure that the ARC REF 150 is enough amp though? Thoughts?

Loaded a few pics of my re-fit rig that is starting to take shape. Have new speaker cables coming (Cardas Clear Reflection) and new preamp (BAT 32SE) and am considering trading my Pass Labs X350.5 and a few bucks for a ARC REF 150. Thoughts?

I moved speakers out to very outside edge of carpet that can be seen in 3rd pic or so and that helped a bit. Pics make them look closer together than they really are.

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5160

Thanks and yes that’s exactly what I was afraid of. The type of tubes needed I gear is too expensive and out of my price range :( 

What about - would not have thought of this normally but another member mentioned them.

a pair of Primaluna Dialog Premium HP in mono blocks - with KT150’s these have 192 wattts and supposedly the tranny’s to drive my Speakers - just always thought of Primaluna like I look at Hyundai? Not fair maybe - nothing wrong with Hyundai- not sure either way other than to say I alway bought Toyota’s / Audio Research or BAT. 

Those Caver tube amps do look great.

Yes this is my only Audio room for better or worse.

Do you think some throw rugs on the floors might help?

i have a tube preamp -coming and bit warmer and I think better speaker cable option coming as well. 

Nitewulf - the speaker cable change I made cost me a total of $150 dollars.

I bought my $3,200 HiDiamond D8 Speaker Cables 3-meters as demo’s for $1,200 and then sold them for $1,200.

I then purchased $3,300 Cardas Golden Reflection Speaker Cables 3-meters for $1,350.

Hence the net cost of $150

Regardless of what anyone says about cables I know they make a gigantic difference in my systems.

Moreover, my former speaker (that I still own and love) has a wizzer cone and phase plug vs a top quality beryllium tweeter - my old speaker had a semi-shelved treble and the Magico’s extend to the heavens and then some with a rather robust treble.

These are not perceived differences or a matter of how one hears somthing differently but rather legit, actual, physical - mechanical differences in designs that work differently with different types of cables and components.

My old speaker cables were known to be very high resolution and a bit forward and up front and worked great with tubes and SET amps as they peeled off the layers nicely but in a different system such as my new system they can be bright. No big surprises there. I knew it might be an issue when I bought these Speakers. 

The Cardas Cables are modern so not warm per say like the old legacy models but in relative terms a better match and compared to the HiDiamond definitely a richer, fuller, warmer cable.

The idea being that this $150 investment would be a good spend and provide me a better match or synergy to get closer to the type of sound I prefer. My goal was not to use as a tone control but rather to do less damage. My old cable was the wrong cable and I’m hoping this cable helps.

If the HiDiamond was a more balanced and nuetral cable then this change would not have been nessessary but I bought those to light up and peel of the layers of my Tube SET amp that was driving a speaker who’s treble was derived from a wizzer come and phase plug.

Now when plugged into a solid state amp with no tubes driving the ruthless Magico’s I was just asking for trouble and trouble I got. 

Along with these cables im also adding:

BAT VK-32SE Preamp Factory Certified w/1 year Warranty and built in MM phono and remote and brand new tubes. 

Im looking forward to the changes.

Another member wrote that I am making too many changes too quickly.

There is some truth to that I’m sure but I knew my Speaker Cables needed to be changed and I wanted to get a tube preamp in there also. I’m hoping these changes combined with more break in time make a big difference.

Enough that I can start enjoying these great speakers. I will give these changes a little bit of time but if I don’t like it then I’m off to a tube amp. The most powerful I can afford with my trade. 

Most of my buys include either a trade or the sale of somthing else to fund most all of it.

Just didn’t want everyone thinking I was buying all this stuff for crazy money or anything like. It’s the exact opposite actually. Many times only a few hundred dollars is the net difference that changes hands.

As far as putting an EQ in there somewhere. I’m just trying to get my rig where the different parts play nice together and are good matches.

Trying to mix and match and use this site to get info and feedback to help me do that. Trying to minimize and reduce poor match causeing damage. I think I have good enough components where if I can get the synergy match right they should all do what they do best which is sound great. That’s the hope and goal anyways! 

No but I probably should I guess but don't think I will.

I am a HUGE fan of their preamps though. Some call them dark or closed in or shelved up top but I know for a fact that is not true and its not because of the BAT pre that would ever cause that. Well yeah maybe up top compared against a super sterile extended solid state preamp that they only thing they do that I love is air up top and their great transparency but that is a tube ss pre debate not the BAT pre.

The people that call the BAT pre dark is due the rest of their gear being exposed by the great BAT pre's. BAT pres highlight other problems in your system vs the BAT pre itself actually being the culprit. They will expose you so from that standpoint they are a pretty serious units. Sort of like my new Magico S5 Speakers. Best be careful because the rest of your system will be stalk naked and the weakness exposed but sometimes its hard to find exactly what part in the chain is causing the trouble. That said I love their pres and think they are very special and their tube amps for power our outstanding but never had luck with with their big SS amps and owned a couple of them. That last one was the main reason I am sour on their big SS amps.   

I had a big BAT is my system a couple years ago and was decent but after a short while wasn't a fan but that could have been due to the other items as every single items in my system has changed from that time: 

I owned:

Wilson Sophia 2 Speakers
CAT Renaissance SL-1 MK III pre
Manley Snappers
PSA DirectStream DAC
PS Audio Powerplant Premier
PAD Cables

I found the Snappers sounded decent but could not drive these Wilson's properly and were a poor match. I loved the Snappers but they just did not grab hold of the drivers properly. I got frustrated to the point where the snappers were actually started to bother me as at times were flat out flabby. Was considering a full re-tube but the life on them wasn't that bad.

In came the big BAT VK600SE and I liked it much better than the Snappers but the magic was gone. Not the tube magic but just the sole and the part of the music that we really connect with. I mean it was sort of there but it was elusive and sort intermittent rather than in spades.

To make a long story longer I picked up a cheap $700 BelCanto amp can't remember the exact model but it was one of the One models and it was excellent. It was amazing how much I liked the way that little SMPS amp sounded. It tough me about matching where before that I was just throwing darts. It did not have the bass or near the power of grip but much of the magic.

Its funny now thinking of it but the Snappers, BAT VK600SE and then the BelCanto experience really taught myself exactly what I wanted.

I knew what I wanted sound wise just didn't know how to get there so this led to a great time of learning and growth in my audiophile journey.

It let me down a dizzying road of furious rig refit of box swapping and speaker swapping and I was learning. Deep learning about power supplies and cables and different types of tubes and ss designed and no feedback and impedance matching and system matching and SET amps and high sensitive speakers and everything was on the table. It was enlightening and frustrating but I would not change it. I think in this I was searching for a sound. In this hobby you can read and learn and should but most of it comes from good old trial and error in terms of dialing in ones on ear. After that I settled on a great system about a year after than and ran that rig for a couple years happy as can be until this most recent system refit. My me a year and a half is long enough for one rig. I need to keep my rig and gear fresh. If it sits too long the components will depreciate too much so I like to keep the ball moving.

I now know so much more and I was confident enough to go with 103db single full range driver Rethm Saadhana V3 Speakers 8ohm driven by 2 watt SET 2A3S-FFX tube amp to Magico S5 Speakers 4ohm driven by 700 watt Pass Labs X350.5 solid state amp. As of now the Rethm/SET has the advantage but the Magico's are closing the gap quickly as I remove the exposed weakness along the Magico's keep getting better. My speaker cable switch from HiDiamond to Cardas made a very big jump. I have a PS Audio P10 on the way as well so I am building my system around my Magico's with much more knowledge than when I tried the BAT amp.  

typed on phone so please excuse all the type o's :)

UPDATE: I wanted to update my 3 threads. I appreciate very much all the feedback and help during this process. The folks on the GON are the best!

Guys my speakers were not even close to broken in. As in Brand New or very close to it. 

Goodwin's told me this, they called it cold, and told me not to worry and promised me they would change dramatically.

You know how it goes though - you hear what you hear and that sort of supersedes everything else but I was trying to be patient although I'm pretty impatient by nature as my words have made pretty clear but I am learning and growing as an aphile.
 
I was inclined to be believe them as they are the Magico pro's but I was worried because I was so unhappy with how they sounded at that point.

I just didn't think when I bought a used 2 1/2 year old pair of speakers they would need Full Blown brake-in but I was wrong.

Also, I thought that even if they did need break in I doubted they would evolve so much to make that much of a difference. I hear all the talk about break in being over rated and it is more a matter of us getting used to them verse them actually changing but I also would think if anything does need break in it would be speakers with the CAP and drivers needing it.

All this said I am utterly amazed at how much they have changed. Sure I made a speaker cable change that made a nice difference but that is not where the true evolution was. I am probably around 350 hours on them or so and for a good 8 to 10 hours a day out of 24 for the last week and a half I have really given them some nice volume and some good old SPL's and given them a chance to stretch out.  

I am told the 500 - 600 range is when they really settle nicely but I am very impressed and so happy how they are evolving. now These are some very serious speakers. So much better than I thought they were going to be. PS Audio P10 landing today and BAT VK-32SE close on its heals. 

As always I am going to plug my Amp via wall direct and hope to get a dedicated 20 amp set up for it and the P10 down the road in the near future but I am over the garage and getting in there means removing fire proof sheet rock etc so that may be a little while out.

Do any of you guys think it is worth plugging my Pass Labs X350.5 into the P10 or just stick to plugging into the wall.

Why did I chose the P10? Couple reasons is one many people like them and i got a such great deal on  brand new one thought it was worth a try. Audiotroy told me a conditioner and another server are needed. Although I am pretty happy with my server but am open to new ideas and growing. What do you guys think?

Thanks 
   

Hey guys - I have some new developments in my system that I had shared in my other threads and wanted to share with you guys also. Thanks

Hey guys - wanted to update you. I got the BAT VK32SE and my PS Audio P10 Conditioner from Fedex and have had a chance to install and listen a bit and these adds allow me to see right away where and how they fit or don't fit..

Like I said I am learning and working toward building my new system re-fit and figuring it out on the fly. I know I am going to make mistakes because most all my buys are without listening first. I know not ideal but also most items I am buying are used so that is sort of the price of this approach. Saves a ton of money but I also don't get to try in my own system first but also buying used and properly allows me to re-flip the items that are not the fits I am looking for.

This said here we go.

I know it is very early but right out of the gate the BAT is not for me. Great preamp and nice and warm and sounds great but these Magico speakers are so transparent and so resolving that they crave - require and demand nothing but the most transparent and neutral components in the chain.

The BAT just provides a bit too much in terms of moving away from neutrality.

I now understand why all you guys want components that are dead neutral. I never got that before but I sure do now. Clear as day!

Once your system gets to a level of transparency where every little change really is highlighted and effects the whole you want everything else that is added to not take from that.

The BAT is sweet and has great bass and sounds great but I have been running my Bricasti direct and realize just how much more I appreciate that sound vs what a tube preamp offers.

Maybe another tube preamp that is more neutral would be more to my liking but I am on the transparency train now and its hard to add anything that doesn't help scrub that window clean and make it as clean and as pure as possible where the BAT added too much tint to that window. A pleasant hue of tint but I tint none the same and many of you told me this and I want the glass in that window as pure and as pristine as i can get it and would love help and feedback from you guys.

Many of you called this but it was important for me to try a decent tube to get that doubt out of my mind and sort of flush my brain of that idea. Sure tubes can add so much that is desired but in my situation the trade off's where too steep of a price for me and one I am not willing to pay.

What do you guys think?

I am thinking Solid State preamp. Ayre K-1xe or maybe a Mark Levingson 326s. I would love a Pass XP20 but none out there used and the XP30 way too much money and the XP10 might now be able to outdo my Bricasti direct. Decisions / decisions.

Also, the PS Audio P10 is fantastic. I love it and it was a nice add on the neutrality and transparency front so happy about that.

I am batting 500 liking 1 out 2 of my last changes/adds.

Also, on my new focused path of neutrality and transparency I am making another speaker cable change. I know a couple weeks is very quick for these changes but in light of what I have learned it makes sense to me.

I switched from HiDiamond D8 to Cardas Clear Reflection speaker cables. My main reason at the time was my speakers with the former cables were incredibly bright and I wasn't happy with my speakers and this cable change and the added break was very helpful to fix this.

The bottom line is the HiDiamonds and the Magico's were not a good match so I pulled the trigger and made the change. I went to warmer and richer cable which was a nice change but the cable is a warmer and richer cable. I want neutrality and transparency so I today pulled the trigger on a cable change.

I sold my Cardas Clear Reflection speaker cables for the same price I paid for them so no financial pain there but they did help me learn more about my speakers and my preferences as it relates to these speakers. Also, what drove this is my ideal cable came available so I pulled the trigger. These were more money than the Cardas CF cables. Not a ton more and but a few hundreds more not crazy expensive considering the buy sell road i take but I am hoping this will be a nice change because these are a more higher end cable and well thought of cable and are known to work great with Magico's

Kubula-Sosna Emotion 2.5 meter Speaker Cables. I am hoping these are great. I am hoping these and a solid state preamp rather than a tube preamp will get me closer to where I want to go. Both changes are chasing that neutrality and transparency goal. There is always the fear of going too far the other way so that is why rather than a Nordost or a silver cable I went with the Kubula-Sosna Emotion as they are known to be a musical cable yet quite transparent.


I think my guiding goals are now transparent, musical and neutral and in this order is this is what will drive all my future decisions and not sure I could own this so confidently without my trial error process of trying on this BAT tube preamp.

What do you guys think?

Any good SS preamp idea's?

Any of you guys here these speaker cables I just bought?

Thanks as always for all the help.

I just started a thread asking about these 2-preamps but you guys have been with me on my system re-fit and wanted to see if any of you guys had feedback on these preamps:

Esoteric C03 preamp or Mark Levinson 326S preamp

ANY FEEDBACK - THOUGHTS - IDEAS would be so appreciated.

Hey Eric_squires. Thanks for the info.

Yes I agree totally in your comment to not make your system to cool. Have to guard against that for sure but it’s funny because I’ve loved and I mean loved Tubes my whole Audiophile life but know they don’t seem to fit in like they used to. I pulled the trigger on a Mark Levinson No.326s Preamp. What a great Preamp. It has taken me a little while to get used to but I love it. Also, just made a deal and am making an amp change also. Going to a Hegel H30. Not as warm as the Pass but Hegel is not bright or cool and nice and relaxed but vivid and dynamic and transparent while still providing decent warmth. I’m looking for a bit more resolution, transparency and more dynamics but without it becoming cooler so hoping the Hegel fits the bill. I’m ok with giving up some of the great Pass warmth for better resolution and transparency. Hope it works out like that. 

Hey Fella’s - tons of changes and improvements - working today - I’ll share and update soon!!! 

It is  Bricasti M1 - M5 - M12: Network Player - My REVIEW w/OEM Response Brian Zolner @ Bricasti

Hey Jafant and ebm - whats up guys. How is it going? Here is my latest project. It was my digital player and want to share with all you guys!


https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/bricasti-m1-m5-m12-network-player-my-review-w-oem-response-br...

Hey Jafant - thanks

I had such a poor experience with my turntable experience (I had a bad cart) and a super nice person spent hours to help me install and set up and just went through hours wrestling with it until we learned my S1 cart was bad so I sold it all and focused on improving my digital and installed this great Bricasti M1 Network Player and upgraded my interconnects to Kubala-Sosna Emotion from Cardas Clear Reflection and the interconnect change made an incredible difference.

I thought the IC's would be an improvement and man are they are expensive which is why I waited so long to do it but it was a huge change. The IC change and Network player upgrade in combo took my rig to a total other level. I also bought a special purpose built mini - fanless pc that has a low power design with J1900 processor and SSD and run it all with premium linear power supply that helps a great deal.

My Magico's sing and my system is at the best it has ever been. I do think i will make another go at vinyl but I am going to start with a much simpler to use set up like a decent Rega or something. Those VPI wobbling arms are so hard for a vinyl newbie to work with.  

Hey guys - I just ordered the Magico S5 MK II and would love any of your feedback if any of you guys has any? Here is the thread.
Thanks 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ordered-magico-s5-mk-ii-traded-s5-mk-i-thoughts-feedback-anyo...

UPDATE:

So my new Magico S5 MK II Speakers that I ordered on November 11, 2018 were delivered and installed in my room 3 days ago and I am psyched.

I never ordered speakers brand new and had them made for me before this way just like I want them so the wait was not fun but the idea and process sure was.

They sound totally different then original S5 which is kind of odd. They look similar but sound nothing like the originals. They have totally different drivers, cables, crossovers and the cabinet looks similar but is totally different so I guess it makes sense but I was thinking more of a evolutionary sound then a totally different sound but they are nothing like the old ones. Still burning them in and will be for the next month or so but they are awesome and I am psyched.


I appreciate the info and help on this thread.