Avalon Ascent MK-II's...Tri-wired,into two heavy external crossovers/seales 175 lb enclosure(speaker)....crossovers weigh 55lbs each....constsnt 6 ohm load/88 db sensitivity.
Beautiful Tropical Olivewood.A superb design,easily competitive with much of today's better dynamic designs(assuming the room is of correct volume).
I also use a REL Stentor(very judisciously)for extreme bottom "weigt".,since I have the speakers out about 8 feet,to take advantage of the soundstage abilities,yet this loses a bit of impact.Hence the sub..-:)
Hopes this helps |
FWIW,my close friend recently sold his Kharma 1.0 and moved to the Magico Mini.He does not have a large room,and we all felt the Kharma was a bit too much for it.
The ceramic driver seemed to get irritating upon loud volume,but I also think partnering equip was a factor(a superb,but non tube amp,which all Kharmas like,IMO).The 1.0 was superb,but many friends felt it got aggressive when played at volumes not all that loud.
The "Mini" is a different story.In his room(12.5 x 20 ft) I personally think it is almost perfect!The bass is about as deep,and with real(surprising)impact.
BUT it never sounds aggressive,and can "DO" loud to an amazing degree,while all the while keeping all musical lines "perfectly" in place.
I've tested it at low levels too,and this speaker(the Mini)is just perfect for the environment it is in.
Good luck |
First off,I happen to like Kharma speakers,very much!!Personally,and from quite a bit of exposure,I believe they definitely do much better with tube equipment.
Yet,the Magico Mini,driven by "elite" SS amplifuication is simply an astounding speaker!!I've heard it loads of times,at a friend's home,where I helped set them up.
The "driver" business we speak of(ceramic,or otherwise)is better employed on the Mini,because(IMO)the actual nature of the driver materials allow for less "aggresiveness" at louder volumes,versus ceramic types,or really many other types.
The "only" other speaker that compares to the type of inner detail and tonality the Mini portrays(at good volumes,but not overtly loud)is the Avalon Ascent Mk-II.Another overly built,sealed design,yet with a bit more upper mid air.....THIS is "just" opinion,from careful personal evaluation....Nothing written in stone!!
I happen to like the inner details that ceramic drivers allow,but "sorry",they can sound a bit "too much", when played at volume,necessitating a smoothe(but quite nice,to my tastes)tube amp.The Lamm 2.1(which is a fabulous amp)"does" Kharmas to the N'th degree,IMO!Yet,ceramic lacks the "last word" in tonal truth,to my ears!
However this is easily overlooked,because it can still sound SO DARN GOOD!!
So,back to the Mini.....with a "good" powerful SS amp design(assuming you have a superb pre),you can get the type of dynamics,and surprisingly good timbres(not unlike tubes)that many lust for.
Yet,the design allows for very good inner textures,that is "only" available on ceramic drivers,with extreme care in matching componentry.You've got a better shot of getting the textures right,with the Mini,compared to a ceramic based design.
The Mini,IMO,is easier to get "right"!
Forget about any "bass" issues,unless the room is LARGE!!
Just some thoughts. |
Well I hate to be contrary,but to my ears the MBL speakers are a perfect example of excessive "disco sound"....Many folks like this!Not a hint of realism,and for those who like to be seated on top of the band,when at a catered affair,like weddings etc.
I have heard the 101's many times,and always leave with a slight head ache.Whew!!
There "is" a very nice open sound,but not a hint of bass coherence.AND the bass is always overblown!
The Magico Mini MUST be set up in a medium sized room,to "get it" with these little gems!Otherwise yes,a sub will aid in a large room....
To me,they are more involving than the "overwhelmingly unrealistic" 101's.....
Far more coherent,and involving......Long term listenable,which the 101's are not...
Unless one is the type to like a BIG "auto-sound system" when driving around town,and annoying all who stops closely to your car...then yes,the 101's are for you!
Sorry,just my personal observation,from hearing both speakers....ALOT!
Best |
Dev,since your comments were obviously directed at me let me clarify.Also,of course these are just opinions and should not cause animosity!
I cannot see how "anyone" could make a "meaningful" comparison between the Minis and MBL's as these two speakers are SO unrelated(in terms of room demands)...
The MBL needs a very large space to breathe,and the MINI will work best with "room reinforcement" to get the best out of them....The volume of space you (most likely)have your MBL's in will not show off the Minis to their best....
Also,the Mini has the advantage(and it is a BIG one,but not really understood in this HYPED up hobby)of being a sealed design,which gives a "truer" portrayel of pitch perfect bass response.Many folks don't actually know what pitch perfect bass sounds like,because most mfgrs don't "do" this correctly!!I am NOT accusing you of this!...
Of course you prefer "your" speaker!!You have set up them to optimize their potential,but if one has a "correct" MBL room "volume",the MINI will NOT hold up,unless a sub is employed to fill out the missing bass,due to the (should be) far larger room the MBL's require,which will diminish the Mini's performance envelope!...Hmm!
Not a fair fight,and I have no doubts you will be happier with what you own(yes,I may have gone a bit overboard in my MBL knock...sorry)!
Personally,I believe the Minis are WAY overpriced,but you have been kicking them a little too hard in some of your comments(which you have every right to do,btw).You simply must understand that different designs will show off under the conditions best suited to each of them....
Actually I am taking the liberty of assuming(dangerous)you have compared side by side,which favors your MBL's.
If I am wrong,and you truly put the Minis in the correct "volume of space" needed to show off their best,you have my apology!
My friend owns the MINI II,and I set them up with him....IMO his room is absolutely perfect in size and dimensions...
We have measured his bass output,which extends to 31 hz!...CLEAN!!!...Articulate,and not the boomy bass I have heard from virtually every MBL set-up in the past(far less accurate ported designs,both on paper,and to my ear)...
I have not put MBL's in my room(you've got me on that one),but have made it my business to hear "well set up" systems with them on "numerous" occassions(I'd say a dozen occassions)!...So I think I have a good fix on their presentation.....They too,are not so cheap in price!
Like you said we all have different tastes -:)
Best |
Pedrillo,based upon your comments,boy would you have loved the LeGall deal/sound!!!...Big time!!
Best |
Dev,your point is well stated....My friend's room is 12.5 x 21 ft x 8 ft.He uses a "fabulous for the given task" Rowland 8t.Not a hint of SS "supposed" problems,with beautiful timbral tinges,and real impact when needed!A great mating!
Btw,the Mini "needs" alot of power from the amp!The Dartzeel is a fabulous design,but from what I've been "told" from a Mini/Dart owner,it falls a bit short in low freq weight,on some musical passages.Just a point of interest,as you probably know already....
Anyway good luck on "the quest" -:) |
Wslam,I've enjoyed your posts,on the Valin discussion site.Though I usually find J.V. to be a bit over the top,he pretty much got this speaker "right" in his opinion piece!
I convinced my friend to be open to the "mini-monitor" approach(that "mini" word scared him originally)and he subsecuently bought the Mini II's.He has a room size around 12 x 20,with 8 foot ceilings.These mate far better than his previous big three way.
The new speaker likes his Rowland 8t incredibly much(300 wpc),and he has a superb sense of scale,and more importantly,a superb tonal range.To hear the superb original pressing Mercury LP's,and a vast array of killer discs in such gorgeous/convincing fashion has altered my way of listening at "his" place.Gotta love it!
In his room,with good program material,the low bass can "easily" shake the walls and retain proper scale,and it is HERE that we know it is a good room match,because he is set against a sub.Not needed here!
Of course there are those,in our club,who cannot bring themselves to accept the "fact" that such a "somewhat" small speaker is doing ALL of this "gorgeous music",and they look for little things to pick on(like not enough overblown bass....yes a port cannot match a correctly designed sealed system....IF THE SEALED DESIGN IS PROPERLY ROOM LOADED).
I myself just have to laugh at the contrarians,because though the speaker is getting a bit too costly,it is STILL superb in almost every way!As you know,you have to hear it well set-up to understand -:)
BTW,I believe there is going to be a goodly amount of high ticket competition in the NEW "mini-market",now that Magico has put this speaker on the audio table....
I am anxious to see/hear from TAD,who is going to release their own monitor design,possibly as soon as the RMAF,but no later than Vegas,from what they have told me.That should be "serious" competition for the Magico Mini,and it will be a coaxial mid/tweet,with an 8 inch woof(yet it IS vented,hmm).....Not cheap,at over thirty grand,but Magico needs the competition....No?
Good luck |
WSLAM....TAD replied to my E-mail in one day.
Expect a superb design to be available for the consumer fairly soon.
Btw,one thing I like about the MINI II,is the ability to hold superb resolution at very low volumes.This is a very good attribute,as there will inevitably be times the music will not be played loudly,but you still want a high level of resolution.
My current speaker is a master at this,and is also a sealed design,with separate crossovers.One reason why I just cannot part with them.
Best |
Emailists,I agree with you totally.Even though I have a superb(time has proven it to be even better than it's "original great press")three way floor mount design(Sealed enclosure/massive external crossovers),I DO feel a speaker with less cabinet,and fairly full range, will sound more "au'natural"!
Fortunately my own choice has a smallish footprint.
Best |
All I know is I've heard extremely satisfying "low" bass,from the Mini.This in a room about 21 x12.5x8.
No,I did not actually measure exactly how low it was....
Why?....because I was totally satisfied with the numerous reference discs we played,and if the bass was sufficient on these superb discs,I/we were totally happy.
I know how much low frequency material is on these discs,and have heard them on many set-ups(some with multiple driver/woofers,also very well set up).The Mini "Maxxed" them out.
Maybe not good enough for the technically oriented crowd,but very convincing to me.All anyone should really be concerned with is if the music "sounds" convincing.
In the right room,it certainly does.One reason,I suspect,it's so popular....If the room is a cavernous one,obviously common sense dictates one use a different speaker.
The Mini goes low enough to say..."who cares"?It's that good,when well driven,in a room of appropriate volume(which is common).
Best |
I hope all our comments are taken as just hobbyspeak,and remember we(I especially) am expressing only opinion.This based on musical taste,and the various set-ups I've heard,over many years.It's how the particular speaker(we are talking about the transducer here,so my "opinion" is expressed)comes across in a given system....
Firstly,I know EBM quite well.In all honesty he's had quite a few systems over the years....
Speakers from big Maggies to pretty big Kharmas.He is addicted to "music",has the monetary resources to support his passion,and is willing to take criticism(actually asks for it,as a learning exercise) in order to get to his goal,so his expressions come from real experience....
Yet....I've truly never been overwhelmed with the sound he's been able to get(in the past)....mainly due to room restrictions....which is understandable,since he lives with a "damn understanding wife"!The room just happens to support "real-world living quarters",which is EXACTLY where the Magico Mini RULES!!!
IT FITS IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF MODERN LIVING SITUATIONS!!!
Anyone in an urban environment,and without the vast spaces of the great outdoors will love the Minis....PERIOD!!!....I'm being totally honest...they are really that good,unless you simply have to play Pink Floyd's DARK SIDE OF THE MOON at concert levels....Then I understand some other design.
There are other superb speakers(obviously)and I totally agree with Roypan about the MBL's!I've never understood how anyone could believe they do "music as opposed to good sound"!
To me,there is a big difference.The Magico's do music(to my taste),and the MBL's remind me of two weeks ago,when I was at a gorgeous wedding,but sitting way too close to the band.
I had a great time,but came home with a slight headache.
Best. |
Hey Dev,have a glass of wine,and relax.Then re-read my first paragraph...Carefully!!There was suposed to be a good dose of humor in my remarks!!
Nobody's "attacking" anyone,and virtually ALL comments made here are someone's opinion....Including "yours"!!
Sorry if you got mad,but there might be some folks who view your statement about the V-3's not being so hot,as just as intimidating,as how you perceived my MBL "opinion".
Yes,you are correct!I've only heard the MBL's at Trade shows.....MANY TIMES,and maybe somebody has to tell MBL to lower the volume and work on that ported bass annoyance,because on virtually every occassion,the suspension of disbelief was not there.I've not once heard articulate bass from them.If I am wrong you "gladly" have my apology!!
Btw,EBM now has as valid a system as any I've heard.With the addition of his new Minis,he can feel worry free,and secure enough to not get peeved every time some hobbyist makes an off base comment.
Best |
