@dbphd - thanks for the reply. I've been having fun with this. |
I'm pretty new to computer audio myself. I had the Mini that I had tried, but not very diligently, using Audirvana Plus with limited success. When I decided to try Roon and Tidal, I took the Mini to a local shop for a checkup, telling them my planned usage. They suggested the SSD but no change to the power supply. For me, the cost of bringing the Mini online was minimal. The sound of DSD downloads from Acoustic Sounds played through the Ayre components is at least as good as that of an SACD.
db |
@dbphd - did you modify the Mini to operate from a linear PS? If so, what route did you go?
Although I’m an old hand at analog audio, I’m just now entering the digital world (in a hi-fi context, not car players or the like).
I gather that the Mini could run Audirvana Plus (which is what I’m using now, with mine) and be networked with an Ethernet based DAC and NAS, but wonder how much the Mini’s sound still comes into play since Audirvana is not only a library management system but a "player." My impression, based on a lot of anecdotal comments here and elsewhere is, that the "audio specific" servers sound better. Putting a couple thousand into the Mini with a mod and robust power supply doesn’t make sense, but perhaps your experience suggests otherwise. It is really a question I’m posing, based on a set of assumptions, not staking out a position. I’m not quite ready to make the leap to the ’next thing’-- I only installed the digital front end in the past month or so, thus, I’m receptive to viewpoints from Mini users. |
Regarding isolation of vibration from a spinning disc in the Mac Mini, mine has had an SSD installed. The Mini connects to an Ayre QX-5 Twenty digital hub via ethernet.
db |
I run Roon core 24/7 on a Mac Mini and control it with Roon remote from an iPad with WiFi connection. I run and control Roon bridge with an iMac. Neither a keyboard nor monitor is used with the Mini, although both are available.
db |
@miner42 - only for set-up as I understand it. You run it ’headless’ and depending on software, you operate it with a wifi remote control, e.g. Audnirvana, a software program designed for Mac computers (but now apparently on the verge of releasing a Windows version), runs on the Mac and you ’talk’ to it, control selections, etc. via a remote app that can be installed on an iPad.
I’m not sure how relevant the Mac Mini is at this point. I’m still researching how I go about building a music server. (Building may be too ambitious a word, i don’t possess any great technical skills). But, apparently, the switching power supply should be changed out to permit a linear supply to be attached-- though there are kits that aren’t terribly expensive for the conversion and there are some modestly priced supplies, a better linear supply can cost a little money.
I still like the idea of something made from computer components rather than an all in one "audiophile" server. The gamers and Linux people seem to know how to source the parts to build pretty robust CPUs. That said, I gather the Mac Mini was a great starting point at one time. |
Curious about a Mac mini as a server - are a key board and monitor required? Need some guidance please.
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The Tentlabs clocks are great, if you install this clock in youre CD player, you will never want to sell youre CD player again.
Alex |
I'm using HRS Nimbus pucks (3), under my Mini and I can honestly say without a shadow of a doubt that I could care less. I just use them because I have them. It seems that air vents are at the bottom so I used the HRS pucks to lift the Mini off of the shelf a little bit. I'll bet that if given a true blind listening test none of you will be able to tell a difference. If you can, then you have some sort of superhuman hearing. I think your only "telling" a difference because you want to justify spending the extra $ on something you didn't need to. |
Oh, here's a picture of a clock: http://www.tentlabs.com/Products/cdupgrade/xo2xo3/index.html
Reducing the vibration of this clock is going to result in less jitter? It's a circuit board. |
I would agree with Cutterfilm (above). It looks like there are two camps: those who believe that a DAC puts out varying information depending on whether it is vibrating and those who believe its information rate remains the same until the point of data failure (so much vibration that the buffer cannot put anything out and it skips or stops).
On the issue of "jitter":
Jitter, from my understanding, has to do with the master clock reading those 1s and 0s. I think master clocks come in varying degrees of quality and, therefore, accuracy. The better your clock, the better your DAC, and the better your sound should be to you.
However, the master clock's performance should not be predicated on whether it is vibrating or not. Perhaps massive amounts of vibration would cause a master clock to not function properly, but that should equate to a data error not differences in sound quality.
Again, you close your eyes and listen while a friend blows on your stylus or taps your turntable in the right way--you'll hear it. Close your eyes and have a friend shake your hard drive. Do a double blind test. Repeat. It's not going to matter until the point of data error (where the DAC cannot send out data at all or it cannot buffer enough data during the non-shaking times to give you an audible sound--ie skipping).
In short, I really believe that you'd be better off spending more money on better digital components than trying to isolate the ones you have if your goal is to improve your sound. My rule of thumb would be: computer digital source is not going to sound any better by doing anything to it.
I've never seen any white paper reports indicating that vibration leads to a computer reading less binary information off of a hardrive. That is the real issue.
A third point of view: Where you stand depends on where you sit--I suppose. Those who've invested a lot of money into vibration control for a computer hard drive need to hear it as sounding better. Those of us who didn't spend the money have to say it doesn't. |
I was also in the 'it's all zeroes and ones' camp too; it just seems to make crystal clear sense, yes? But, unfortunately, my experience has just as clearly illustrated the opposite. A Mac G5 tower clearly sounds much better than a Mini or MBP in my system, and RollerBlocks under the Tower and external drives have been clearly beneficial as well. I really wish it wasn't so, but it is:-)
In actual fact, the RollerBlocks made more of a difference than switching out an M Audio 24/192 card for the vaunted Lynx AES 16 card. |
A lot of talk about the D/A process is jitter. Does excessive vibration contribute at all to jitter? I don't know a lot of the subject, but there are a lot of guys on Agon who are obsessed with isolation and vibration. I have my DirecTV receiver, my Mac Mini and hard drive all on the same rack as my other components including my turntable. I wanted less vibration to the turntable. The noise and vibration from the lousy DirecTV receiver was reduced when I put gum erasers under the feet. It's a $4 tip I read on another thread. I liked its result so I did the same with my mini and drive. I think getting them more airflow underneath is good too.
I don't know much about the tech regarding DACs, but the zeros and ones in a computer system that has two way communication is different than a digital audio signal which is one way. If there are problems or errors in the signal the DAC doesn't send a messages back saying 'hey, give me that packet again. there was an error in that last one.' |
Cable stands, anyone? :-) |
The only benefit you would get from reducing vibration to the Mac Mini would be to reduce vibration going to the hard drive--to prevent it from failing. However, as others are hinting with a cat analogy, if the hard drive can read the binary content (1s and 0s) you get your sound and it will be exactly the same.
Arguably, at some point vibration would make the Mac Mini's hard drive not function. But, at that point you wouldn't get sound at all.
Don't believe me that there's no audible difference in isolating a computer? Blindfold yourself and have a friend shake the Mini whilst playing a file and not shake it. Literally, shake it (but don't brake it). You won't be able to tell a thing. It's 1s and 0s.
Again, I do think you could make the argument that you don't want it vibrating because you don't want the hard drive's working reading mechanism (an arm) to slowly move out of alignment and fail. Yet, I would think that you would need a ton of vibration to make it fail or even skip.
Finally, the saying that anything with moving parts needs isolation to sound good is not correct. A phono cartridge will pick up vibration and it will effect sound. Loudspeakers arguably may lose focus if they are vibrating greatly. An amplifier? Now that's a stretch. Someone would need to explain why an amplifier's sound would be effected by vibrations. If you believe this do you also believe that we should isolate our plasma or lcd televisions?
PS Most hard drives and the software running them have giant buffers and error correction. This prevents you from noticing any problems if the hard drive skips or cannot read a section of 1s and 0s. |
Use some vistek platforms. The Series 320 VIP, and the Series 3200 VIP are good. |
>>Anything that spins, vibrates. Cat or no cat. Reduced vibration equals better sound.
With all due respect, that's one of the silliest statements I have ever heard in regard to electronic media. |
I use Herbie's footers under mine. I actually have two iomega MiniMax hard drives under the Mini and each unit has the Herbie footers under it. |
Anything that spins, vibrates. Cat or no cat. Reduced vibration equals better sound.
For something inexpensive, try a bamboo cutting board (I like these), any of Herbie's Audio Labs footers (always a good deal), or the Vibrapods as mentioned. Even a foam mouse pad would work well. You could also try a cork floor tile, which would be another good material to dissipate energy. |
I have Vibrapods under mine. Works fine. |
Have you ever been working on a complex spreadsheet when the cat jumps off a chair onto the floor, and you look at the cells in your spreadsheet and all the values are totally messed up? No?? Me neither.
Remember, it's a computer, not a turntable. Unless you're extremely concerned about your Mini outputing "shaky" zero's and one's, I don't think you need to be too concerned about an isolation platform.
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Dont know.Mine is sitting in a rack made out of black walnut back in the 80's.Its dead quiet and works/sounds real good.Using it with a Bel Canto USB Dac and they are side by side.Haven't moved them in the 18 months I've had them.I hope your as satisfied as I am with the unit.Good luck,Bob......oh,check out computeraudiophile.com if you havent already. |
