Dre,
Not the answer you are seeking, but I did have the opportunity to hear the Titan's big brother, the Olympos, with a Schroeder arm on my turntable. If what I heard was any indicator of the sound of the Titan at all, it is surely a cartridge you must hear for yourself. The performance of the Olympos is breathtaking, and if the Titan is even 80% the cartridge, it is one you should seriously consider.
Sorry I'm not more help, but the Lyra I heard was spectacular, and the Titan is only one step down from it.
Best,
Win |
Hello Win,
Thanks for your response.
I've heard the Olympos in a Phantom mounted to a GPA Monaco table. There was nothing that the combination did that made me not want to continue listening to it.
I've also listened to a Titan non-i version in Frank's reference arm and new table. We ended up listening to many of my LPs that day @ RMAF last year. Outside of a some small technical issues with a few dynamic passages the sound was really good.
Unfortunately, I've not had any experience with the cartridge in a Vector Model 4 arm. Although, I'm really enjoying the Lyra Skala in that Arm currently.
Dre |
I can't help with any experience with that combination. However, the Vector will handle that cartridge with no problem at all. The compliance and mass of the Titan i is very close to my Dyna XV-1s and I have used the Dyna on my Vector 3. They would both sound much better on a TriPlanar, IMHO and IME. ;-) |
They would both sound much better on a TriPlanar, IMHO and IME. You think (or heard) that the Triplanar (VII) is a better sounding Arm than a Vector? |
I sell and have heard both for thousands of hours with dozens of cartridges.
The Vector has much better fit/finish, tracks better, and is more versatile regarding choice of cartridges.
And quite simply it sounds better; the TP is nowhere near as quiet.
The Tri-Planar is extremely user friendly with its' on the fly adjustments. In that regard it's a wonderful tonearm.
Dealer disclaimer. |
You think (or heard) that the Triplanar (VII) is a better sounding Arm than a Vector? Nope, I own both arms. Just my opinion based on being mounted on my table in my system. |
AudioFeil,
Thanks for your comments. How do you think the Vector does with the Titan i?
Thanks,
Dre |
Dan,
Those are interesting comments. I have to ask a few questions now. Hope you don't mind...
How much did Tom charge for a custom armboard that's like the one you use with the Triplaner? Do you like to mounting of it?
How different is the setup procedure for both arms?
Did you arrive at different VTF, SRA/VTA, etc. settings for both arms? If so, What did you end up using for them?
Was the resonant frequency very different between the arms with the XV-1s?
Did you get to try any other cartridges on your Vector?
What characteristic did you notice between the two arms with your cartridge on your system with identical mounting?
Oh yea. I'm finally at the end of my questions with this last one: Have you had any direct experience with the Titan i? Even in a Triplaner?
Thanks for sharing,
Dre |
I have heard the Titan-i with two different arms.The linear tracking/air bearing Air Tangent arm,and most recently the 12.6 inch VPI arm....
I originally felt the VPI arm was "not so hot",but apparently there are some set up issues which "definitely" allow this arm to perform very well!Apparently some very well schooled hobbyists "went to work" on my friend's arm,and "really" did some amazing things,because it is allowing his system to "bowl over" anyone lucky enough to be exposed to it these days.
As to the Titan-i's performance envelope....which I have become quite familiar with on program material consisting of much jazz,and even more-so a good dose of classical LP's...The usual suspects,with some eye opening surprises thrown in.
It "is" a fabulous cartridge!!.....I would not have the slightest hesitation to own this cartridge,if it were on my radar.If you can get a good price,and you lean to this cartridge...Go for it!!
I believe(opinion only)that one of the cartridge's greatest strengths is in the area of tonality and full bodied textures.Coupled with really good dynamic slam,and superb inner detailings,this is a stunning cartridge!!....Over the entire frequency range!
I own a superb Transfiguration Orpheus,and love it,but having SO much exposure to the Titan-i, and with your original question asking about it's performance, I've got to be honest,and state that this is one cartridge you can buy,and "forget about what's coming down the audio pipe-line".... for a LONG time!!
Hope this helps with the cartridge decision. |
Hi Speedy,
Thanks for the response on your experience with the Titan i.
Dre |
Dan_ed,
Would you please explain specifically what the TP does better that the Vector.
Thanks,
Scott |
Well, I didn't want to turn Dre's thread into a debate about tonearms and I probably exaggerated a bit by saying that the cartridge would sound much better on the Triplanar. Look, these are both very good tonearms. That's why I own them.
I've owned a Vector for about 5 years now. First a Model 1 and now a Model 3. The Vector is an outstanding tracker and can tame even the most difficult cartridges with its rock-like stability. If you have a Basis table there is no better arm to have mounted on it than the Vector. At one point I had both a Graham 2.2 and the Vector with the right armboards so I could change the arms out. On the Basis 2500 table that I owned at the time the Vector was superior to the 2.2 in just about every way. Probably because the Vector is much more stable.
I've owned the Triplanar for about 2 years now. Also a very good tracking arm when setup properly. The triplanar is probably not as consistent as the Vector with a wide range of cartridges. However, there are those, like the XV-1s, that combine very well with this arm.
Ok, so why do I like the Triplanar more than the Vector with the XV-1s? Well, maybe it is because I find the Triplanar much easier to get setup correctly and repeatably. I have not been able to get the same nuance and micro-detail from the Vector that I can with the Triplanar. Maybe there just isn't the same synergy between the Vector and my Gavia. Maybe it is because of the silicon damping that must be used with the Vector. It is true that you cannot get the same Galibier Stelvio armboard that I use with the Triplanar because of the way the Vector mounts. This would also be the case with, say, a Graham tonearm. In talking with Thom, we decided that I could get very near the same results as his regular armboard by fashioning one from cocobolo. So I fashioned an armboard using opposing grain layers. Maybe someday I'll be able to get as good results with the Vector as I do with the Triplanar.
Well, there it is. My experience and opinion. Others will have a different opinion and experience and that's ok. YMMV, and all that.
Dre, good luck with the Titan i. I only know this cartridge by reputation but I'm sure you'll be very happy with one mounted on your Vector. |
Dan,my friend may be interested in a Vector.Did you find "it's" fluid usage to be as critical as the 2.2,in terms of how it affects tonal shadings?
Some time ago,I was personally contacted by a fellow who designed turntables.He was quite knowledgeable,and "loved" the Vector!He had some interesting "takes" on many of the popular arms we all like to talk about,but the guy LOVED the Vector.
The business of fluid addition,as it relates to "arm voicing" obviously interests me,but I do have a knowledgeable group of audio pals who are adamant about the "ultimate" lowering of sound quality,if an arm uses fluid.Be it in the bearing,or in a well,with both affecting performance differently....Personally,I'm on the fence with that issue!
I know my Phantom prefers less fluid than the finicky(but I loved it) 2.2,but I'm hearing good things about the latest Vector...
Hence feedback on "it's" fluid/performance impact could be interesting.
Also,doesn't it have a new assembly that allows for easy VTA?
Best. |
Dan,
Thanks for the response and sharing your experience and opinion. Don't worry about the post moving in another direction. If we check most posts on the forum, we will notice this happens regularly. I've accepted it as Internet forum protocol.
As far as the Titan i goes, I'm only getting responses for information on the cart/arm combo at this point. I'm not ready to pull the trigger just yet.
I own the Skala and really enjoy what it does with the very variable music I listen to. So, a Cartridge that is more chameleon (or even handed) with varying types of music is my preference. The Skala, in the Vector, allows me to enjoy everything I listen to. Which is the reason for this post: To find out if The Titan i can add more oneness with the music and not take away from what I'm currently enjoying. I guess you can call it trying to satisfy a curiosity.
Dre |
I have a Titan on a Vector 3, a friend has one on a Vector 4 and the combination works very well. I talked to someone in the know a few years back (I think it was A.J. Conti of Vector) and he said that the Titan transfers a tremendous amount of vibrational energy to the tonearm. The Vector is designed to handle that type of cartridge by dissipating such energy instead of reflecting it back to the headshell and the cartridge.
All that said, the Titan works well in a number of tonearms. I've heard it in the latest Graham, as well as in an SME arm. The basic requirement of this cartridge for optimum performance is a very rigid arm/bearing that will allow the vibrational energy to be transferred to the turntable plinth or armboard. A.J. Conti of Vector hates cantilevered armboards for that reason-- they are not rigid and so they start to vibrate like a diving springboard from such energy. |
Sirspeedy,
The amount of damping fluid in the Vector is very important. I leave the term "critical" for the 2.2 and to give an idea of how I think the difference between the two arms is in regard to this. The idea with the Vector is to add enough fluid to the trough to tighten the base. Too little and the bass becomes muddy. Too much and you start to squash HF and dynamics. This is no different than the 2.2. But I think the 2.2 is much more sensitive. As you posted a while back, even an amount the size of the head of a pin can adversely effect the performance on the 2.2. With the Vector I find that I can stay to about 1/2 cc of silicon and get the level right. In short I don't find the fluid level to be as touchy as with the Vector, but it is certainly very important.
I would say that the micrometer option for VTA measuring does make minute VTA changes easier than not having it. As A.J. says, it is not a VTA adjuster, it is just a way to measure. It should not be touching the plinth while the stylus is playing.
Larryi,
that is exactly what I and others have found about the Vector. It can handle those cartridges that transmit a lot of energy into the arm. I think this is another reason why the 2.2 did not perform as well for me as the Vector. I have not calculated it, but the PSI value at the pivot bearing must be enormous. Another point that the Vector has over the 2.2 is the horizontal stabilization of that little bearing controlling azimuth.
Yes, I know A.J. doesn't like cantilevered armboards, on the fly VTA, and non-suspended tables. Just to name a few things. However, there are examples of such implementations that address his concerns and work extremely well. |
Dan,thanks for the quite interesting input....
Actually,my friend has asked me to call him this evening,regarding a choice between the Vector,TRI-P,Copperhead(he might be leaning to "this" the most),and the Davinci.....
THOSE are the ones "he" likes,so I am simply going to discuss "these" exact choices with him!!....His tastes to cater to,so I just go with it,in case the obvious question comes up(there "are" reasons,btw).
Anyway,thanks for responding....The input will be put to good use.
Best |
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your feedback to this thread.
All Lyra cartridges pump a great deal of energy into the tonearm. It's even stated on the literature that come with the Cartridges. I believe this is one of the reasons that some Arms don't match well with the Lyra's. If there is one thing the Vector does really well, it is dissipating a great deal of that energy and keeping it away from getting back into the cartridge.
This was very evident when I installed my Vector to replace my previous arm. Although it was a good performer, the Skala was a difficult cartridge to control. The interesting thing is I didn't know how difficult it was until I put this arm on the table.
I'm not sure I'll get the Titan without listening to it in my system first, but it's on my very short list that has a few others I will get the chance to listen to in my system.
Thanks,
Dre |
I have tried several cartridges with the Vector and my favorite is the ZYX low output copper coils. Just killer on the Vector. |
Yes, I would be most interested to get my hands on a Davinci 12" arm. But unless I hit the lottery or something it will probably not happen.
JMW, which ZYX? |
.
Just want to follow-up a bit with this thread. I've had the fortune of having a few local friends with a couple of cartridges that I did get to listen to in my system. The time spent doing this was very educational. That time spent being listening to the cartridges in my system. I've setup and listen to a good number of well regarded cartridges in other very nice systems as well. So, the combination of settings helps me to see more of the strengths of the cartridges in different setup and system combinations.
As such, I purchased a Lyra Titan i back in September of 2008. The cartridge decision came from the number of my listening experiences combined with my continued favor for the Skala overall when in my system. Some of the cartridges did some things better but it was always at the expense of another characteristic I was not willing to give up. After much consideration, I went ahead and purchased the Titan i. In this case, I gained exactly what I was looking for without any loss of what the Skala brings to the table.
I've been very happy with the decision as I continue to squeeze more performance out of my setup than anyone I know would have ever expected. The lesson for me is that setup of the entire system is very important in trying to achieve the most out of any system. I know it has helped me to have a good set of ears and have friends with even better ears to achieve good sound. For me, being engaged with the music and the system is part of the fun.
Dre |
Dre,
Glad to see that you're enjoying the Titan. I'll have to make it over one of these days & hear it. Now all you need is lots more LP's.
Scott |
"The lesson for me is that setup of the entire system is very important in trying to achieve the most out of any system."
Truer words...
Glad you're enjoying the journey!
|
Hi Scott,
You are most welcome to visit. Just contact me via e-mail and we can setup a time. Half my LPs are still uncleaned sitting in my basement waiting for me. Of course, I'm always looking for more! :)
Dre |
Doug,
I had to state the obvious based on the many listening experiences.
I have to enjoy the journey or it becomes work...
Hope the weather is doing well up there.
Dre |
Dan,
I don't know what ZYX JMW was talking about. But the ZYX I had in my Vector was extremely enjoyable. I won't tease you. It was a UNIverse low output copper with a silver base.
Dre |
