Lumin T2 burn in time?


Hi, I just got a Lumin T2 streamer 3 days ago, and have been playing it continuously for 3 days.   So far I think the sound is pretty good.  Great details with excellent spaciousness.   However, I find the bass to be a little bit thin.   I'm comparing this to my current Cambridge Audio 851N streamer.   The Lumin is 3x the price of the 851N.

My question for you Lumin owners - how long of a burn in period are you giving your streamer/dac before it reaches its optimal sound?  and do you think the bass will improve with the burn in?   

Overall I do like the sound, but if the bass department doesn't improve, it would be a show stopper for me.   Another thing I wished I had known before purchasing this unit is the lack of remote control.   The Lumin App is not bad, but the lack of basic control via an infrared remote is a real bummer.    I'm not looking for full fledged feature set from a remote, just basic rewind, forward, start, and stop.   It saves me the hassle of opening my phone every time to perform these simple tasks.   

Anyway thanks in advance!
xcool
Sorry to say, if it don't sound good right out of the box it might as well go right back into the box. Because it ain't gonna get all that much better. Yeah sure it will change. Duh. It will open up, become more refined. But the fundamental character will be heard right out of the box. You are now at three days. Oh well.


When I purchased my Lumin U1 I was told by the manufacturer's rep that 500-600 hrs were needed for burn-in.  However my unit sounded great out of the box and I can't say I really noticed much of an improvement over time.  The U1 is a digital transport/streamer only - no DAC.  It actually made every aspect of my non-Lumin DAC sound better, including the bass.  I suspect it's the DAC portion of your T1 that is responsible for what you're finding objectionable.  I like to keep the streamer/transport separate from the DAC to give more flexibility, and in fact I'm now moving towards a Lampizator DAC that I will pair with my U1.
T2 owner here. My Lumin sounded good right out of the box. One of the things it does exceptionally well is dynamics and bass. You may have poor system synergy. IMO, the Lumin app is well thought out and took me a couple of days to figure out all its features. I enjoy the absence of a "remote" since the iPad and iPhone are so easy to use.
I've listened to the T2 and did not find it lacking bass.  I have a TEAC NT-505, which is further down the pecking order (Lumin/TEAC/Esoteric are all part of the same company) and there are no issues with lack of bass in it either.  Sound quality has not changed in any noticeable way since I first got it. 

 Your unit may have an issue, or the Cambridge Audio unit may emphasize bass and after hearing that it seems like something is "missing".
Are you using a preamp or are you connecting the Lumin directly to your amp?
I purchased my T2 in January.  I initially thought is was a little harsh and thin sounding on some music.  However, after a month or so , the harshness went way and dynamics improved.  Bass is very deep and defined.
i also like using the app instead of a remote as I always have my phone or iPad with me when using the Lumin.
I have my Lumin T2 connected to a preamp.   I don't find the Lumin harsh, but I do find it a little thin sounding.   I do like the details and the spaciousness.   Bass is definitely lacking some slams, as compared to my Cambridge Audio 851N.   I'm hoping it will improve after burn in.   It would be a shame if it doesn't, because I do like a lot of the SQ about this unit.
xcool, please keep us posted as you get more hours on the unit.
I have mine connected that way as well.  Not sure if your preamp  applies any DSP,  but  I noticed a big difference In sound quality when  I set my preamp in digital bypass mode,  which eliminates all of the  DSP and  sends an unaltered  analog signal directly to the amp.  You might try it that way and see if you notice a difference.  I also thought the Lumin’s tone changed slightly after about 200 hours.
I have a T2 that is barley 24 hours old, It sounds great. It has the same DAC chip as my previous Wyred 4 Sound unit (Saber) but with all the streaming features. I am not as happy with the Lumin app, I have finally got it figured out. It should have been ways easier. It is not very user friendly. I was used to the OPPO app it was super simple to use. I find the Lumin barley tolerable. Maybe they will tune it up some day. It could be a deal breaker for me very unhandy.
hi @bwguy my preamp is pure analog, so no DSP processing.  Right now,  I'm just going to let it run continuously for another week and see how it goes.   Like I said earlier, SQ wise, I like everything about the T2, except I wish the bass is a little more pronounced.

As with the app, it's actually not so bad when it is WORKING.   Unfortunately,  it seems very unstable.  It quits (or crashes) all the time.   Sometimes when I restart the app, it won't connect properly, and I can't even control the playlist.   I really don't like the fact that the app is the only option to use this unit.   With the Cambridge Audio I have,  I only use the app to construct the playlist that I want to listen to, and even this step I can do it without the app.   I can do everything else via infrared remote, like start, stop, skip, and rewind, etc. 

If my experience with the app doesn't improve, it might be another show stopper for me to keep this unit.
XCool, I found the Lumin app to be very stable, never dropping out or buffering. Is your wireless set up robust? What you described with the Lumin app suggests a network issue not the app.
I felt the same way you did at first, but now I am really happy with it.  Are you using IOS or Android for the app?  I think IOS works much better for some reason.  The app works great 99% of the time for me.  Every once in while I have to close the app and re-open it, but it is rare.
You might email Peter from Lumin, and ask if he has any suggestions.   He is their head programmer and is very responsive.  His email is [email protected] 
I know Lumin did a firmware update at the beginning June.  You may want to confirm you have it.
@big_greg   How do you have the impression LUMIN is a part of TEAC/Esoteric? I thought LUMIN is a part of Pixel Magic Systems in Hong Kong, whereas TEAC is part of TEAC Group (along with Tascam & Esoteric) in Japan.  
@rockrider I believe you are correct.  The Lumin and Esoteric apps both work with my TEAC NT-505 and are almost to identical to each other (and TEAC's HR Streamer app) and I thought they were all part of the same company.
Ah, interesting @big_greg. Thanks!
I am currently running the latest firmware. I think @tuberist might have a point about network. My network does have issues sometimes. Spectrum is the provider, and I can’t tell you how much I dislike them. Don’t get me started...
My Lumin X1 sounded absolutely dire straight out of the box. I was going to send it back. For the first couple of weeks it sounded like crap and I thought I had made a huge mistake.
My dealer persuaded me to stick with it, and it took over a month before it started to sound good, and now after a few months it sounds amazing.

@rossb You would think Lumin would have figured out to pre-burn the units before shipping.
Anyone using a Lumin with a preamp try the Leedh volume control?
No, have not tried the Leedh volume control.   Is it supposed to be good?
Thanks @rossb It’s good know burning in does improve the sound.   i’m keeping my hopes up.  
A lot of people on other audiophile sites such as AudioShark claim they think it provides for an even better sound. By using Leedh, You put your preamp in unity gain and control the volume using the Lumin app.  By doing this, it basically takes the preamp out if the chain.  Many claim it sounds like a veil has been lifted and is even more clear.  I have tried it but not sure if I can tell a difference.
Hi xcool.I’m from LUMIN and I just wanted to add a little info.

Firstly LUMIN is manufactured by Pixel Magic Systems and is totally independent of any other company. The LUMIN App is our creation. Esoteric, TEAC and others licence the App from us to use with their streaming products.

iOS is our primary development platform. It is very stable on iPhone and iPad.
If instability exists, please try a restore - this cleanly installs all apps and can resolve some issues. The only performance requirement is regarding cache. LUMIN App is unique in it’s local storage of album artwork - for large libraries with high resolution artwork, this can require quite a bit of storage - most devices have large storage these days, but our App works back to older devices too (when storage might only be 16GB), so it’s worth bearing in mind.

Android is trickier, as there are far more variations between vendors and Android implementations. Testing is much harder, but we believe we have now reached a level of stability that should provide trouble-free playback for most. Again, the app is quite sophisticated in it’s interactions with the device, so clean systems are beneficial.

Because we use the OpenHome standard (UPnP AV) for streaming, for people who don’t get along with our app for playback you can also use other UPnP apps such as Kazoo, BubbleUPnP and others. Some are free.
LUMIN App is required for changing system settings and for firmware upgrades, but playback can be achieved with any of these apps.

Regarding burn-in. We get a broad spread of customer opinions on this, but we seem to have settled on advising about a week of 24/7 playing using a playlist on repeat containing a variety of music resolutions before critical analysis. Your amplifier doesn’t need to be on during this time, so it can be done silently overnight.
We have reports of improvements after even longer than that, but certainly the first couple of hundred hours is worthwhile.

Hope that helps.
thingswelike,
I have just sent you a PM. Please respond.

ozzy
What settings are you using? I have a D2 and also going through a preamp, mine are:
Volume Control: Off
Analog Audio Output Level: Low
De-Emphasis for 44.1kHz CD Files: Off
Digital Audio Output: Off
MQA Mode: Analog Output
Ultra-sonic Filter for DSD Playback: Off
Re-Sampling: Off

Just in case one of these is the culprit. I realize it’s not the same as the T2, but bass has been quite good for me. I really haven’t tried toggling these other than setting the output to low gain and turning off volume control otherwise the gain through my preamp cranked the volume to insane levels, as it is I don’t go above 1/3 otherwise neighbors get super grumpy. Anyway hoping it’s just a toggle setting. Oh my use case is 99% stream tidal hifi/master.
Hi @thingswelike thanks for the lengthy reply.   I'll try to take a look at your suggestion.

BTW, I have another comment about the Lumin App.   It's about the implementation of the "shuffle/random" feature of the playlist.

First of all, when the shuffle feature is turned on, the current playlist is still displayed in the original insertion order, and I noticed that some songs can possible be selected more than once before the playlist is finished.   Also, you have no idea what the next song will be ahead of time.   It seems to me that the shuffle implementation picks the next song randomly when the current song is finished, therefore it is possible that a song can be played more than once.  Am I correct with my observation?

I'm comparing your implementation against something like the Cambridge Audio app.  In the Cambridge implementation, when shuffle feature is turned on, the current playlist gets randomized and displayed in this new randomized order.  You know exactly what the next song will be, and also the same song will not be played more than once before all the songs in the playlist have been played.

Your comment on this will be appreciated.  Thanks.
Thanks for your comments xcool. I'm not entirely sure of our shuffle method, but I'll pass your comments on to the team.
I'll be honest - shuffle and repeat aren't part of my normal playing style, so I haven't observed different implementations.
Can I ask - on the Cambridge app - when you turn shuffle off, does the playlist go back to how it was before?
Hi @thingswelike Thanks for the reply.   

Yes, on the Cambridge app, the playlist goes back to insertion order when you turn off the 'shuffle' feature.

Thanks!
Thingswelike,
Does changing the output setting from normal to low on my Lumin T2 change any of the dynamics, or does it simply lower the volume. I noticed The specs on my Classe processor say maximum XLR analog input is 4VRMS (which I think is voltage). I believe the low output On the Lumin T2 is also 4 volts. If I set it to low output, am I losing any data?
Firstly for the proper LUMIN support channels you are best emailing [email protected] as that gets distributed to the correct expert technician (which is definitely not me), however...

Hi bwguy - no compromise with setting it low.
Another way is to connect with RCA instead of XLR - that has the lower voltage anyway. If possible you could compare both.