Looking to get TT

I seeking getting into a first TT and would like help!
My current system is Classe 25 amp, Classe CP-60 pre, Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 D/A, Sonic Fontiers SFT-1 Transprt
and Martin Logan Ascent. My preamp doesn't have phono so I would need phono preamp to hook into my CP-60 so having explained my set and only wanting to spend no mor than $1000 on TT and phono pre can it be done?
Was thinkng going with music hall MMF-5 andCreek OBH-8 as this would be my first TT set up and total cost would be around $700. Is this going to give me many years of good sound? in the future I can go with phono card for my preamp.
No, this will not come close to sustaining you. Try a thread from just yesterday, "Lost sheep, getting back to turntable." Lots of great advice there. If you can go used, VPI Junior with Rega RB300 arm or Audioquest arm. Price is $650.00, alternatives, Rega P3 ($450.00) or Technics SL1200 ($550.00). Would suggest the VPI only because, although there are great upgrades and tweeks for all three, only the VPI will allow you to build it, with a series of small investments, into a VPI HW-19 mk 4, which is on a whole different level than where you will be starting out. All three sound really differnent from one another and if you tell your musical tastes it may be easier to nail it down. I have owned an OBH-8 and would suggest instead the Musical Fidelity X-LP, $135.00 used. Several advantages here. It is much smoother, will accomodate regular moving magnet cartridges and medium output moving coils. Additionally, for another $25.00 or so you can buy the excellent Ault high current power supply which really adds to the definition. So here we stand at $795.00 and the time comes to talk cartridges which is a little like talking shoes; what fits me will not necessarily fit you. New cartriges should only be considered. I like the Audio Technica AT440ml. It is really cheap at under $100.00 with this combo we can pay for the shipping and a few albums. If you get the Rega arm and can spend a few extra bucks, the Denon 103D is under $300.00 and will work with the MF preamp but you would have to go with the OBH-9 if you want a Creek. Many like the Blue Point, at $250.00 a little stretch, and it will work with any of the combos but really too lax for my tastes. The new Shure is a corker, M97he, it is also under $100.00 and will work with any of the combos. It is a tad warmer than the Audio Technica and may well be the best all around compromise while still keeping you within budget. I'd buy the AT though, thrills and spills. Best of luck.
curiously, I have just added phono to my Cd setup.
I found an Audio Research phono (PH1) and got it last week. beautiful! (I couldn't add anything but a separate phono pre pre to my setup) I have borrowed back a Dual 502 I found at a second hand store that I had given to my best friend. All because I had the good fortune to find a big pile of good LPs for a very low price. So I decided it was worth going back to Lps.
I am very happy with the PH1, and plan on either a Rega, or a MMF. The MMf 5 or 7 are pretty good. I spent $432. on the PH1 and it will last (for me) forever. The TT within the $1000. range would be the MMF 5 or a used Rega Planar 3, or P3 with the Rega 300 tonearm. (for me, it depends on the position of the Sun and Moon??? as to which TT I get)
Personally I would go for the MMF7, which is like $850. to $900. new right now, and get a skimpy $100 used phono pre pre. As then you can get the card for your amp in the future, and will have a great TT. A lot of folks are talking about the MMF TT's and the guy who designed them is well know in the audio community. (I was worried it was a here today, gone tomorrow sort of thing, but have been assured that it is a good product.)
Then you WOULd have a TT good for a long time, and when you got your phono card, perfecto!!!
About the part where you ask if you will have a good sounding TT for many years, if you are like most audiophiles, you will be upgrading in about six months to a year anyway. If you have not had a TT before, once you hear analog, you will be looking at higher end rigs. Any of the above mentioned rigs will get your feet wet, and are good quality items. I wouldn't worry too much about overall longevity of the product. I have never seen an audiophile own something long enough to wear it out yet.
I just moved up from a $200 table to a sota. Wow, what a difference. You have a nice system and will easily hear the difference. Someone told me the same thing when I got back into LPs. Get a nice used table (VPI, Sota or...) with whatever cartridge and tonearm for now. It will be much easier to upgrade your phono pre in the future than change cartrigdes or tonearms, let alone tables.

You can find a sota saphire for under $800 and get a parasound p/ph100 used for $99.

Enjoy the difference. I can't stand cd quality now!
Twl, After reading many post on TT it seems like your one of the guru on TT here and was wondering your thoughts on maybe MMF-5 with grado phono or MMF-7 with grado phono, or do you think I'm wasting my time with these types of TT. My digital is pretty good and hope my first TT can be close to my digital set up!
I listen to jazz and classic rock and want a table that can give good bass, lush mids and not brigh highs!
I know I'm asking alot but I hope I wont be disapointed if I go with the MMF-5 or 7. Down the road I will be installing a phono card in my CP-60 or step into a nice dedicated Phono pre. I pretty much want a TT that is more plug N play with not alot of messing around with but maybe upgradable in the future! Happy Listening!
I think the MMF 5 or 7 are good tables, and should surpass your digital rig - at least somewhat. I think they come pacakaged with a phono cartridge already installed, so they should be easy to get up and running. The Goldring cartridges that come with the tables are good cartridges of the MM type. The MMF tables tend to sound a little warm, and should be just what you are looking for, as far as the tonal qualities are concerned. I'd say it would be a good choice in your price range. I've heard some say that the 5 is good enough that spending more on the 7 might not be worth the extra dough.

I don't know about the Grado phono stage. I haven't used it. I have read about it, and the innovations in it may be quite good. At least it seems interesting.

Hard to go too far wrong with what you mentioned. Just remember that cartridges and tonearm cables take a little time to break in, so don't be too judgmental until after 30 hours or so, of play.
I would like to echo some previous comments. First, I just got back into analog about 18 months ago with a VPI HW-19 Jr. I now have a full blown MK IV. So yes, VPI's upgrade path is useful. I'm also fairly certain that once you taste analog, you will want to upgrade. So I would recommend that you either look at models that are easily upgradeable, or think of increasing your original budget, so you can get something you'll be happy with for more than a month. BTW, when I have time to listen, I almost always choose LP's these days. The cd player only gets used if I'm busy and/or feeling lazy, I'm even considering selling it.

After reading alot of the post here and the recommendations from you guys here, are my choices

1. VPI-19 jr with AQ PT-6 arm
2. VPIHW-19 mk III
3. Sumiko Pro-Ject prospective
4. MMF-7
5. VPI Aries Scout

1 thru 4 are pretty close in price at $900-$1000 new
and the VPI Scout is $1400 new, what would you all buy?
How about a Kenner Plug 'N Play and 700 LPs?
One other comment about your choices. If you are new to vinyl, one of the most difficult aspects will be the set-up. This can make or break your satisfaction w/ vinyl. This is a big reason to buy from a local dealer who knows how to set-up tables, if you have such a dealer. While some of your choices are more plug and play than others, all will require some attention to set-up. Alternatively, if you need or want to buy mail order, you should try to find a table that can be largely set up by the dealer and shipped that way. I speak from personal experience on this.
TWL, why do you think the Music Hall TTs are "warm" sounding?

Hint: my creature on steroids is neutral sounding...


OK, some clarifications:

1) I have learned that phono stage is more important than TT. My next step is to send my phono preamp's outboard power supply to cryo treatment.

2) Digital doesn't sound that great because most people have mediocre power delivery/noise control measures. I have conquered noise in my system and digital is really something to be enjoyed. Analog is not superior in all respects. My goal is to keep analog and digital in balance...

3) Use digital as your reference for PRAT. Otherwise, you'll be prone to fall for a "magic" sound that has nothing to do with reality, especially with some moving coil designs. I find my modded Groovemaster MM cartridge more musically accurate than my Ortofon X5 MC.

4) My choice of TT is being marketed not to audiophiles, but to libraries and radio stations as a *transcription* TT. It is an accurate tool, not a spatial enhancer...
I'm no expert here as i have not compared other systems in my home, BUT, I too just went back to vinyl about a week ago. I picked up a Music Hall 7 (used for $720) and a Clear Audio Basic phone stage. ($400). Playing through AUDIOMAT Arpege ($1300)with JM Reynaud Twins ($500 but soon to swap out for Offrande ($2500)). The MMH-7 has a MC cart (Goldring Eroica) which matches great with the phone stage. As you can see all prices for all components are proportional which is why I too wanted to spend about $1000 for a TT setup. So far I am absolutly satisfied and think the TT sound is sooo much better than my digital front end. Night and day even though i thought I was satisfied before.
Bottom Line: For about $1000 check out the MMH-7 instead of MMH-5. I think you might like it.
Francisco, because they just are (warm sounding). Tonal colorations would be my first guess. :^)
Tom, it's vibration (both internal and external). It gives that midbass and below "warm, beautiful sound"...

I tell you, I can walk on my springy floor and the creature is resting on an IKEA Lack tabletop with its spiked screws and nothing happens--and I'm 250 lbs! The deck is neutral sounding. I talked to Kevin today and he says the creature becomes quieter and even more stable with the outboard power supply.

Got to go...
I'm curious - if there's a phono card available for your preamp, why aren't you considering this now? Would it really be more expensive, considering that it would save you from having to introduce another set of interconnects? Assuming this is a decently-engineered piece, it would typically have access to a much better power supply - the one already in your audiophile-grade preamplifier - than is case with inexpensive standalone units. Unless you were going for a more premium-quality outboard phonostage, I tend to think the convenience of a built-in can be better suited to the casual vinyl-spinner. And don't worry about not sticking with it: Even a modest vinyl rig can give you a lot of those musical qualities that good records seem to transmit more readily than CD's - and besides, it'll be too much fun to quit... :-)
Zaikesman, Classe has stoped making the Phono card for my preamp so I'm looking for someone that has one for sale. For now what I have done is bought a VPI HW-19JR with the AQ PT-6 arm, Blue Point Speacial and the OBH-8SE pre to get me by for now then down the road I can invest in a better Pre and do some upgrades on the TT. Happy Listening!
...Sounds like a plan :-)
Jsawhitlock I think you made the best choice.

This post, 05-29-03: Psychicanimal, has to be the most ludicrous I have read.

Tom I am surprised you can resist a retort. I believe you stay silent so as to not dignify his comments with an answer.

End of line....................
Rocky, I really think that Francisco has a lot to say and is not afraid to say it. Like you, I do not agree with some of what he espouses, but his viewpoint is the result of much thought and experience. Many audiophiles just parrot the party line on turntable choice and Francisco's opinions offer a genuinely different hirearchy on what is of sonic importance. For the record I own both DD and belt driven tables and recommend both types dependent on listener bias.
Ludicruous? I apologize for saying that vibration gives warmth to the Music Halls. It is actually the particle board, which magically vibrates at room temperature and gives that characteristic & beautiful "warm" sound...

Come on, Roni--use your head and think. Particle board sucks from a sonic standpoint. That's widely known knowledge in these forums. If those plinths were made out of Moca wood the sound would be clear and open. Maybe the molecules in Moca wood move slower!

Viridian, you are totally accurate by stating that my "opinions offer a genuinely different hirearchy on what is of sonic importance."

I want my digital and analog rigs to sound as close to each other as possible. I don't want my analog to sound warm, sluggish and artificially bloated in space. I don't want my digital to sound harsh and sterile either. So, how do I get them closer to each other? The first step is to get proper power delivery/noise control measures--especially for digital. Noise induces jitter in digital equipment, so much it's tragic. It has taken me over two years to conquer electrical noise. It's not easy.

When I went to purchase a new DAC I told Dusty Vawter that I had a modded 1200 and that I wanted it to be in balance with whatever DAC I purchased. After hearing what my analog rig was like (I use Monolithic phono pre), he said his Channel Islands DAC and my creature on steroids would be a great match. Analog does not have the low noise floor, dynamic range and perfect pitch of digital--digital lacks the smoothness, ease of presentation and delicate imaging. How do I make this happen? I need to start with a TT that offers speed and rotational stability plus neutral sound. Since I don't have a cost no object Rockford, I will have to mod and compensate for my TTs weaknesses. In this case, the tonearm and the noise floor. On the digital side, the Channel Islands DAC has a reputation for beign *musical* and very lenient on poorly recorded CDs--especially those from the early 1980's. It is one little gem.

I know what I'm doing and I have a goal...

With psychic power and primal intensity,
I see the Emperor still hasn't much to wear....
Psych, You have responded to THE WRONG post I thought it was obvious even to you, however I will now clarify this matter for you.
These are the Ridiculous statements made on 05-29-03:

Hint: my creature on steroids is neutral sounding...


OK, some clarifications:

1) I have learned that phono stage is more important than TT. My next step is to send my phono preamp's outboard power supply to cryo treatment.

2) Digital doesn't sound that great because most people have mediocre power delivery/noise control measures. I have conquered noise in my system and digital is really something to be enjoyed. Analog is not superior in all respects. My goal is to keep analog and digital in balance...

3) Use digital as your reference for PRAT. Otherwise, you'll be prone to fall for a "magic" sound that has nothing to do with reality, especially with some moving coil designs. I find my modded Groovemaster MM cartridge more musically accurate than my Ortofon X5 MC.

4) My choice of TT is being marketed not to audiophiles, but to libraries and radio stations as a *transcription* TT. It is an accurate tool, not a spatial enhancer...
Psychicanimal (Threads | Answers)

But I do agree with this statement.
Viridian, you are totally accurate by stating that my "opinions offer a genuinely different hierarchy on what is of sonic,importance. Psychicanimal

If your opinions are different from what is sonicly, important. Why do you make them here as if they have some sonic importance?

After reading all of the above statements one can only conclude that you have never lived with a revealing Analog front-end, or you would not have these opinions.

Psych I am glad you listen to lp's, this is a good thing.
Now for the important question, how many Vertigo swirls do you have, and do you want to sell any.
I finally read what you meant. You need to prove me wrong. Just pasting what I posted and declaring it ridiculous doesn't cut it. I can advance that I learned #1 from Dejan V. Veselinovic, one of Europe's most knowledgeable audio writers http://www.zero-distortion.com.

Question: "If your opinions are different from what is sonicly, important. Why do you make them here as if they have some sonic importance?"

What is different, in Viridian's words (and I totally agree) is the *hierarchy* of what is important, not whether something is important or not. Pecking order, in nautical English.

Quote: "After reading all of the above statements one can only conclude that you have never lived with a revealing Analog front-end, or you would not have these opinions."

Define revealling, please. Also, it is proper to use the first person, please ( "I"...can only conclude).

The person who started me on high end is a friend of our family and he always taught me (since I was 15) that what was important in a high end system was "resolution". As I learned more and more I found out that statement was erroneous. A high end system should be *musical*. Now I'm 40 and my system must be clean, musical and intimate (that's why the list price of my noise control rig is more than that of my audio gear--about $8K). This man always drooled cause I was "connected" to the music world and ALWAYS had the kick ass LPs. His Sota vacuum TT and flavor of the month arm and low output MC could pick up defects in my pressings, and that what he was actively listening for (he had downgraded from a Technics SP10, BTW). My cousin told me last year that he finally admitted to him he'd spent all these past 40 years listening to equipment. If he heard my rig he'd have a heart attack! When I took my little, $315/pr Yamaha NS-10M Studio and squared them against his $6K B&W 801's he almost had a heart attack! Oh, Mr. Klyne and Krell were doing the pre amp & power stages...and $100 a foot speaker wire feeding the juice.

Quote: "Now for the important question, how many Vertigo swirls do you have, and do you want to sell any."

I do not understand what you mean.

If TWL agrees, I will take the creature on steroids on a road trip to Appalachia sometime next fall. How about that?
Cool, I really like the Idea of you and Tom Getting together Franscisco, to settle this once and for all.

Tom you need to respond to this thread, I know you are reading this with glee.

I had to write that post 3 times to get it to the point it was kind and not bashing you.
So I will not try to prove you wrong, and start a pissing match.

About the first person thing, I believe that most anyone would come to the same conclusion, so I said what I meant.

The term "Revealing" was used to be polite as part of my gentler third revision.

About Vertigo swirls, I am surprised you do not understand. You stated you always had all the kick ass LP"s.

Look here to learn about great Treasure


If any one else has any swirls for sale, e-mail me please.
I have some swirls but still need alot.

RR, the definition of what constitutes "kick-ass LP's" is evidently highly personal. My criteria is rarely as a collector, but primarily as a music lover, and as such I wouldn't care about the Vertigo stuff, whatever it was worth, unless I happened to stumble upon one cheap (but thanks for the educational link). PA undoubtedly has his own definition as well, and I'm sure it wouldn't totally jibe with mine either. Vive la difference, no? (And doesn't this apply a bit in matters audio too?...) I for one would not exactly be surprised if what TWL was reading this hoo-ha with wasn't actually "glee"...Why focus on manufacturing points of contention between us when what's obviously more significant is our similarities? :-)
Zaikes, the deal with the most of the Vertigo stuff is that they are truly great musically that's why they fetch big money.
I personally will not pay the big bucks and have a few that have been reissued that are not swirls, but as you know the first UK editions will sound better. That's why I try to get those instead. I have stated before I am patient in my collecting and always try to get them cheap.
That's why I asked psych if he had any for sale. also tried to focus on our similarities,music and LP's

I do not collect for the sake of collecting I only keep LP's that I love to play, That reminds me I need to go through my collection and weed out those that I don't listen too or at least give them A spin.

A few of the guys from work come over to here my LP's(swirls included) and say its the best music you never heard. I really have lost interest with the modern music you know the stuff the kids listen to (30 and younger) for us, but I still crave some new tunes. So I look to the swirl, and other labels to fill the void. The world is a big place and I always found that the truly great music rarely made it on the radio. Let alone the radio stations I listened to as a kid growing up in Minneapolis.

what I am saying as a music lover Zaikesman you would love most of these lp's but remember they are progressive Rock and folk.
If you only like classical then it will not be your cup of tea. If you like Jethro Tull then you like progressive rock.

Zaikesman, maybe we should let TWL speak for himself about this hoo-ha
Well, I was away from this thread for awhile, and didn't realize my name was being mentioned.

First, I really have no desire to have a pissing contest at my house. My house is a genuine Appalachian log cabin, very small, and no typical amenities that I'm sure you all are accustomed to. I doubt any of you would be comfortable here, although the outhouse isn't too cold this time of year. I carry water in from the spring outside. You get the idea.

Second, I think that most of this is really a moot point. Whatever a person is happy with, is fine for them. The only part that is quesionable about this, is whether the ranting and raving from either side about the preferred type of turntable, is accurate information for others to go by. I certainly have my feelings which are well known to all of you. Many of us like to expound upon the virtues of whatever system we have. This is only natural. I do it all the time. I don't have any problem with others doing it. If it comes down to a shoot-out, may the best TT win. That's all I have to say.

PS - No shoot-out at my house.
No shoot-out- unless it's between you and them dang blame revenoors, huh, Twl! :-)
I lived in a log cabin--no electricity and w/ an outhouse next to the creek! Amenities? A Teres based audio system is spartan? Yeah--right.

Too bad Tom, I found out yesterday my client will not be up and running until Thanksgiving, give or take a few weeks. I only work about 12 hrs a week average nowadays. This week I'll work 50-60, but that's doing some unexpected repair work in my system. I had heard you were kind of a hermit. I understand, my high school was a Benedictian monastery!

I'm setting up a $6-7K system that will rival $25-30K ones* and that my creature on steroids fits in perfectly. Going into a multithousand dollar deck is out of the question and not worth it (because of the law of diminishing returns). I haven't "lived" with one, but I have been *with* them long enough--just like with women!

About the music: contrary to popular belief, most of my collection is not Latin (I am not that old). I have Jade Warrior, Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Pentangle, Gong, Tull, Renaissance, Anthony Phillips...how about that? As for Jazz, I start with a collection of 20+ Gato Barbieri albums...

*If you don't believe me try the Channel Islands Passive pre-amp ($249). I just got one last weekend. Will give $3-4K preamps a serious challenge. Dusty's goal is to have a $6K setup rival a $30K one--for real.
I'm just scratching my little head trying to figure out how one can have a total of $6000(retail)in a system when just the "noise control" portion is already at $8000 (retail)!! Must be a dang blame guvment program...
You need to read again..."I'm setting up a $6-7K system that will rival $25-30K ones".

Ah, now I understand why most people don't do well on the ASVAB...
Ron: You would be correct in deducing that I don't prefer the type of 'progressive' rock featured on those releases...I'm sure our tastes must have some overlap (rock is my main music), but one thing I must agree with you on the need to weed out the stuff in the collection that doesn't personally appeal, something I'm perpetually overdue for myself! ;^)
Zaikesman,I don't have anything in my collection that I don't like, only to say I will not collect Items Just for the sake of collecting. I must like and play the lp's I own, aside from the sealed ones I have.
If I have some items that I don't play, I need to find out why ,and maybe sell them off to make money and room for some more swirls or Canterbury music. I do this constantly, but am due for a major critique.

Zaikesman, if you like Rock then I guarantee you would LOVE some of this music. Because it is some of the best rock ever produced. Don't dismiss this untill you experience it. It is my humble opinion that the masses don't appreicate real talent.
With a few acceptions of course.

Psych I have 3 Jade Warrior lp's all swirls, how come yours are not?

Tom, I knew there would be no shoot out, it would be fruitless anyway. Just got a old Crusaders double LP from Japan and it sounds Stunning with the HI FI mod in place. Thanks again.

well guys, peace and love.
happy listening,
Hey Ron, is that Crusaders set "Rhapsody and Blues"? If not, it too, is excellent.
Rocky, is that Ian Matthew's of Matthew's Southern Comfort fame? I saw him as well as Gentle Giant several times. The Giant warmed up Tull on one or two of the tours. Caught them at Madison Square Garden and Springfied Civic Center, I believe. Another amusing Tull warmup band was called Carmen a rock/flamenco hybid. They toured with a specially built floor with mikes under it so that when they danced it would swirl around as they moved on the floor. Just one album, "Fandangos in Space" on ABC/Dunhill, I beleve. Really doesn't communicate the act itself, kind of like Gentle Giant in that regard. My memory is a little sketchy due to the various recreational pursuits of the time.

Viridian, that Giant and Tull concert sounds like a winner!
Are you familuar with Gravy Train or May Blitz?

4yanx The crusaders Lp I received was 2nd crusade, it was their second lp

Twl,you old Hell-raiser, I also just won BOC Secret Treaties first ed Jap with obi N/M. This is not the reissue, rocks best 100 obi
Tom, if you like Secret Treaties do you have the first Captain Beyond LP? p.s.I have not forgot about the Audience lp.

RONI always rockin
Sorry, Psych, I never did well on the ASPCA. Darn lexdysia. Anyhoo, I made the assumptions that: 1)the $6000 system you're designing was for yourself, and 2)you'd be incorporating that with your $8000 noise control rig (ref your 6/02 post) for a total of $14,000.

Obviously, either one or both assumptions was not correct, although I am still unsure which. But, in fairness, I don't know how one could have assumed anything different, seeing how you mentioned that your table "fits in (the $6000 system) perfectly" and your very clear indication that the noise control rig was fundamental to "clean, musical and intimate" reproduction.

BTW- Thought that, seeing how you found a pair of $325 speakers that embarrassed a pair of B&W 801's, maybe you know of a pair of $1000 speakers that stomp the Sound Lab M-1's. Please let me know.


Ron, I do have the first Captain Beyond album, and it's great. I have it on a mint Japanese pressing, and 2 original US 3D-cover copies. Also have a promo Sufficiently Breathless. They're both great.

I also love BOC, and have these:
Blue Oyster Cult - Japanese with Obi, mint
Secret Treaties - Japanese with obi, mint
Tyranny and Mutation - Japanese with obi, mint
Spectres - Japanese with obi, mint
Agents of Fortune - Japanese with obi, mint

Other highlights:
Also have the first 4 Led Zeppelin albums on Japanese with obi, mint.
Mountain - Climbing and Nantucket Sleighride - Japanese with obi, mint.
It's a Beautiful Day - 1st album - Japanese with Obi, mint
All the early Moody Blues on Japanese with Obi, mint
All the early Jeff Beck albums on Japanese with Obi, mint
All the Beatles albums and almost all the Kinks albums on Japanese with Obi, mint
All Supertramp albums on Japanese with Obi, mint
Most early Fleetwood Mac on Japanese with Obi, mint
All Doors albums on Japanese with Obi, mint
And a variety of other albums of the same.

I love those Japanese pressings.
The list price of my noise control rig is ~ $8K; the total system cost will end up being $6-7K. I got really good deals on the noise control stuff. Now that I'm more knowledgeable I could do it with more finesse and with less gear. I'll keep what I have--what the hell. Point is that power delivery/noise control is a priority. So is acoustic treatments and tuning. Just came from buying some huge and some smaller Kentia palms--they will be my diffusors in my future audio room. Photos will be taken by Lak and posted sometime in early fall...GW

About the Yamaha's--I just wanted to hear them with a *high resolution* setup. I never expected them to be so uncomfortably close to the 801's. As such, I have learned that high price does not guarantee value. Guess what my Proton dual mono amp did to my *highly reviewed* BRB 120--it smoked it. Made in Taiwan--right.

I have never heard the Sound Lab's, but given their type, size and shape it would be hard to find something that would be in the same league. Maybe the VMPS RM40 would seriously challenge them (especially with upgraded capacitors and cryo'ed circuit boards & Bybee filters) at least for the money. I have heard that those are the two large floor standing speakers to get...well, there's an array version of my Swans, too--they're awesome looking and totally impressive.

Dan Wright had a big laugh last Friday when I told him Quad electrostatics would melt if I played my junkie salsa through them...

Twl The man, see, you start a thread about what do people at Agon listen to and all I got was a mostly classical and Jazz response .
I like Jazz but I knew most guys were like us.

Hey now, are those Boc lp's first editions I have them all up to imaginos only (Imaginos, Mirrors and Fire of unknown origin are not Japanese) on 1'st edition Sony label save for the first one that is on that reissued rock's best 100 series obi

About the Led Zeppelin have you seen and heard the Classic records reissues I got rid of my Japs and bought all of the Classic records new reissues on 180 gram from Red Trumpet,nice very nice.

Most all of my Beatles are on the Eas series, Abby road is the pro use series. I also have Hard days night on that Mono red wax reissue eas 7700 would love to get some of those first ed red wax ones. But for now I have my spending limits

All my Pink Floyd is Jap (not old the red wax) and DSOTM is the pro use one of course.

My supertramp items are those Canadian A&M issued Japan pressings
I have the MFSL and the Canadian one of crime of the century and I cannot tell the deference.

My doors are either Japanese or DCC

have you got The Tull Aqualung DCC? if you don't get it
as you know the Jap Tull stuff is way to expensive right now, "A passion play" is up for bid for $138.00 with 1 bidder

I to have all the Jeff Beck on JPN pressings

I also have the first 4 Grand funk first ed.Japan/obi

ya man, I to have Captain Beyond 3D mint/and a Japan pressing of s/t & dawn explosion mint/obi and a domestic copy of Sufficiently Breathless I bought a promo copy but it was beat. I gave that one away. I have a friend who takes most of my junk lp's because I can't bear to through any away.

All my Stones, ELP,Yes,Roxy music,Hendrix,Paul mccartny, Steeley Dan,ZZ top,are ALL on JAPAN vinyl with obi.

Do you have that 8 Lp purple paisley velvet Hendrix 180 gram Box? It is great, You will not play anything else after you get it.

I have 8 Kinks lp's and school boys in disgrace is my favorite. YA!!

And many many more, I posted a link to the vertigo swirls what did you think? This is my latest passion.

Don't want to stop the Johnson-showing contest regarding our LP collections right here, or do you want me to embarrased y'all :-) HA! Lighten up, now. It was just a joke (well, kinda!). :-)
Agreed 4yanx, which is why I won't be listing any of my several thousand 45's from the 50's and 60's here... :-)

Ron, I hope you have the Crusaders LP "Unsung Heroes", which to me is their strongest overall effort from the electric phase of the band (and yes, I have a Japanese pressing - I'm such a dork), but calling "2nd Crusade" their second album would be to ignore their previous multi-album history in the 60's as the Jazz Crusaders, a primarily acoustic - and to me much better - incarnation of the same core group.

BTW, I hope your "guarantee" comes money-back, my friend. ;^) If you want to get a better idea where I'm coming from regarding 70's album rock, here's a couple of archived threads (one of which you were briefly on):



Or, put another way that you'd understand, the only Kinks albums that mean anything to me (quite a lot, in fact) were all on Reprise (last one, 1970... :-) TEHO

4yanx,come on let me have it hammer me. I would love to hear what you have. Tom and I could have taken this banter off Agon and done it via personal e-mail but we chose to share some of our interests with each other as well as the rest of you. It was very enlightening to hear of Toms love for Captain Beyond one of my favorites. I even have The Jap cd for my car. come on 4yanks embarrass me please!

You know those BOC Japanese are hard to find. I was surprised Tom Had so many. I thought I was the only one collecting them,really
well not really.
Zaikesman,Wow you are quite the collector. I don't do 45's I have always's said you can't have it all, and I do not try.
About the Crusaders you are quite the Guru, I don't know anything about the Jazz crusaders only that Joe and Wayne must have been part of the band. Was I incorrect to state that 2nd Crusade was "The Crusaders" 2nd lp?

Yes, I have unsung Heroes first ed on blue thumb/N/M. I bought it new many years ago. I also have Chain reaction , Southern comfort, and Scratch all on blue thumb. I have played them many times. In fact after I finish this I am going to spin some Southern Comfort.

About the Kinks, I sold off my older items last year on ebay The only 2 older ones remaining is The Kink Kontroversy, but it is on a PYE 1965 UK mono pressing / MINT and The Kink Kronikles 1972 brown reprise USA press/ N/M
I need to listen to those as well been a while, to many swirls.
Why are you a Dork for having a Japanese unsung Heroes LP or was that a joke or something?
I will checkout the threads tomorrow and get back to you
bye for now.

Yeah, it was a joke...I'm not a 'pressings' hound (though I really do have it :-) And I'm also glad you didn't take this offline; Records are the reason we have record players (and the reason we have records, hopefully, is music).

As far as I'm aware, you are not incorrect about "2nd Crusade" - but then that would seem kind of self evident, no? The Jazz Crusaders not only had Sample and Henderson, they also had Hooper and Felder - the same group of childhood friends that formed in Houston at the end of the 50's. Their first LP ('61) contained the title track "The Freedom Sound", which they reprised on "Unsung Heroes" over a decade later - still a great, haunting tune. Their 60's material was mostly released on the Pacific Jazz label, including the popular string of "...At The Lighthouse '6_" live albums, and much of it was re-ished in various packagings and labels during the height of their 70's fame.

Those Kinks LP's are both great (the Kronikles is a collection of latter-day Reprise material released after the group had moved to RCA). About their vintage stuff you must've had and sold off, the less I think about that the better! ;^)
Ron, I have the Kinks "Schoolboys in Disgrace" on Japanese also. I agree that it is my favorite Kinks album. Side 2 just knocks me out!

I don't have the DCC Aqualung.
I don't have any vertigo swirls either.

Guess I'd better start getting with the program!
Oh, I agree with Z that is about records and music and I appreciate a discussion of what music people enjoy, albeit a different topic than which began this thread. Sorry, it is just that the listing of titles, pressings, and conditions seems to often degenerate into one-upmanship. And where does that end?! :-) Now, if we are discussing our opinions of best sounding pressings of a particular title, let's compare!

BTW, I do own the fourth pressing of the second re-release of Led Zep 4. A classic!
It is refreshing to argue about records instead of gear for a change. How about let's us analog guys stick together. We are a smaller group than the digital brigade, so we have to represent ourselves in a way that will make people want to come aboard the "analog wagon". I like a good argument as well as the next guy, but between ourselves we should present a united "analog front" for the readers. Do you think that is a good idea?
Tom, I fully agree that the talk of music, as opposed to gear, is refreshing. Some of it does happen in the Music forum of this site, but not to the extent that it might regarding vinyl pressings or individual recordings.

I can't say that I understand what you mean with respect to a "united analog front", though. If you mean that we should espouse the virtues of vinyl and help try to "educate" those new to vinyl while sharing tips, tricks, and tactics among ourselves, we are in full agreement.

OTOH, if that means "sticking to a script" or following the somewhat disturbing trend of a few here who appear as sycophants, concurring with everything posted by their particular "camp guru", without much original thought or counter view of their own, I'd take issue. There will always be different points of view which is healthy, in vinyl or in digital. If democracy can withstand debate, so too can the vinylites! :-)

That being said, my love of vinyl is strong and I’d love to see a lot more give the platter a spin. If I have contributed negatively to this prospect on this site, I will gladly take my leave.

Of course, I might have totally missed your point, in which case I would quote Emily Littlela, "Never mind!"