Looking for the Honda S2000 of turntables


This turned out much longer than I anticipated, so I understand if you folks skip right over this post. For the rest of you, here we go.

I've been reading a lot about turntables for quite some time now. I have learned about matching tonearms and cartridges, resonant frequencies, compliance, azimuth, null points. And still I have difficulty choosing a model. Part of this is simply the number of choices available and the amount of disagreement between posters to forums such as this. But I think the biggest part of this is that one man's trash is another's treasure. People want different things from their turntables.

Look, there are folks out there, and you may be one of them, who are willing to devote time to tweaking and comparing and upgrading to squeeze every last bit of performance out of your systems. This is not a knock; it is clear you are passionate about your hobby and I am happy to see people get so much joy from their music. I wish I had the money, time and ears to conduct such experiments myself, but that's not me and it's not what I am looking for.

Here's what I am looking for in order of importance:

1. Tracking ability. I've read reviews to the tune of "this cartridge is amazing! Such detail, so dynamic! It doesn't track very well, but the slam!" Huh? If it doesn't track well, I don't give a fish how great it sounds. I've heard inner groove distortion and I want to minimize it as much as possible. Now, from what I've read, I should get a high-compliance cartridge because they track best, which means I should be looking for a low-mass tonearm. Except that manufacturers don't list the tonearm mass on their websites (I haven't found any, unless only the ones out of my price range do so) and the online tonearm database only lists mass for a few models, and of those I can afford, none of them are low-mass. Are there no affordable low-mass arms?

2. No fuss. I've read the arguments about VTA, and frankly I don't know what to believe. Some of you guys change it for every record, others never touch it. I want to think about my turntable as much as I think about my refrigerator; I want to open the door and the drinks to be cold. I want to play a record and hear music. If it's really a simple adjustment and makes an obvious difference, I'd consider it, but it's hard to know which of these suggestions are based in reality and which are just black magic.

3. Make my music sound good. I know, duh, right? What I mean is, I want MY music to sound good. I listen to R&B, Soul, and Rock through the 1970s. Up-tempo punchy music. I suspect a lot of these super expensive rigs are necessary to reveal the subtleties of symphonic works. Again, good on ya, I'm happy for classical fans, but I will never ever put a classic record on my platter, so those requirements go out the window. Think Little Richard, Sam Cooke, Beatles, James Brown, Led Zeppelin, Louis Jordan, Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ramones, Talking Heads, that sort of thing.

3.5 On the subject of revealing detail in recordings, not all my records are in pristine condition and I'm afraid too revealing a system may bring out surface noise to a level I'm not happy with. I've read reviews that label certain cartridges as "forgiving" Is this what they're referring to? Is this something I should consider when choosing hardware?

4. Price. I have $2000 to spend on a turntable, cartridge and phonostage. When I say I have $2000 to spend, it means I have $2000 to spend, not "Well, you can get this now, and then upgrade this and this." No, I have two grand and that's that. That is way more than I spent on my last table (MMF 2.1), so whatever I get will be a big improvement. And I don't WANT to upgrade. I want it to work great now and enjoy it with no eye to the future.

Some of you may be thinking, "Buddy, you should just stick to CDs; this hobby isn't for you." First off, while no CD-hater, I have heard the difference between vinyl and CD and it is appreciable. Vinyl playback can sound alive in a way I have never heard from its digital counterpart. Also, I already have a few hundred records just waiting to be played again.

The best analogy I could think of regarding my quest for a new turntable is cars. There are sportscars out there like Ferraris, Maseratis, etc. that are magnificent machines capable of unparalleled performance and fun. They are also, incredibly expensive and fussy. These babies need to be coddled and primped and maintained not just to run well, but to just plain run! Then, there's the S2000 which is an amazing car in its own right, nimble, attractive and best of all, it's a Honda, which means the thing just works. No constant tweaking and fussing over. Turn the key and off you go. Sure, it's no Lotus, but it's no Civic either.

There we are. Thank you if you've made it this far. I really do respect the collective knowledge of the members of this board and will appreciate any advice that may come my way.
shrevie

Showing 3 responses by hiho

"I have read nothing but bad things about direct drive tables: rumble, resonance from the motor under the platter. Are these issues overstated?"

Yes. I wonder where you read these "nothing but bad things" from. After all, the most highly regarded and the most expensive turntable in the world, Rockport Sirius III, at the time of its release was a direct-drive turntable. The record you will be playing is made from a record cutting lathe that has a direct-drive motor. Enough said.

By the way, there's more than one brand of direct-drive turntables other than Technics so if you don't like Technics does not mean you have to dismiss the whole direct-drive genre. I prefer post-1975 era products.

There are many poorly made belt-drive turntables out there as well with toy motors and glass platters. Be ware of hack jobs.

I like idler-drive, belt-drive, AND direct-drive so whatever you choose is fine by me but to dismiss the entire genre of products based on hearsay is limiting yourself the chance of getting exposed to different sound and fun. It's a shame.

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Shrevie: "I find the reaction by the poster who was shocked that I had heard such things about DD pretty disingenuous. Do we not read the same magazines? Have you ever seen Technics listed as a recommended component, best buy, etc.? I haven't."

We do read the same magazines. But your original quote dismissed the entire genre of direct-drive, not the Technics. Here's what you wrote:

"I have read nothing but bad things about direct drive tables: rumble, resonance from the motor under the platter."

The Rockport Sirius was a direct drive was in the Stereophile class A+ recommended component for years. The Monaco Grand Prix was also in recommended component and in fact component of the year in HiFi+, sister magazine of TAS. The Goldmund Studio was one of the most coveted turntable in the 80's. The reason there aren't many direct-drive available is because they are too damn expensive to make!

As for the Technics not having recommendation from those magazines is because there was never a formal review. No review, naturally no recommendation. It's just that simple. If you look online there are formal reviews in many respectable sites. Here's at least one positive review:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/technics_sl1200_2_e.html

It's really silly that I even need to use magazines to justify my point as I usually don't even care for the reviews in those magazines. Trust your own ears.

If an audiophile goes into a dealer hears a bad belt-drive turntable in audition, he or she probably would ask for a different belt-drive turntable (and probably that's all they have) and most likely not cross their mind about change drive system, right? If they hear a bad direct-drive or, let's say, a bad Technics, they would immediately point the finger at direct drive as a bad drive system without further investigation. The bad reps direct-drive turntables got from the 70's and 80's from the press has been fully recovered. It's a shame.

I am not a Technics fanboy at all. I am fan of turntables, period.

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