Looking for suggestions

Just to start of, your older AVR is probably not giving you the best sound. I realize it's doing a job for you, but that's clearly a limiting factor.

Without describing the kind of sound preference you have, advice about a speaker is hard to give.

While most of those speakers may be an upgrade, your current speakers are likely  up to the task of passing along what the AVR feeds them.  I'm personally fond of the Vandy's, but if you take that leap, you'll still want better amplification for them.

Regarding Cambridge streamers, I tried a CXN2, and it was not for me. The issue was that it worked fine with its own control software but it was a bumpy ride using it with generic control software.

Still, I agree with @hilde45 that an older AVR is probably the bottleneck when it comes to music sound quality.

I will echo the sentiment that a newer AVR would likely be your best upgrade. 

Thanks for the advice. I listen to jazz, American (whatever that is) classic country, classic rock, classical, pop, etc. Ideas on upgrade for AVR?

Americana, I meant

@davedword Wrote:

Ideas on upgrade for AVR?

Look at the Schiit Vidar2 amp with a Schiit Freya+ or Freya S preamp.

Mike

I agree on the the AVR being a really weak link.

But to further the discussion. Speakers are typically the first step in an upgrade cycle. If all components were matched and of equal quality, your speakers will make the biggest difference and set the tone and stage for your system. While your AVR may be the weak point. I would still recommend starting with speakers.

Audition as many as you can. The hardest thing early on is to be able to differentiate the source, preamp, amp, from the speakers. The only way to learn is to listen. You want to pick speakers that evoke an emotional response in you… they, sorry, speak to you. I remember searching for my first set of high end speakers. Really confusing… then a tears formed in my eyes… those are the ones I bought.

Get the very best speakers you can afford. Once you have your speakers… then start on the rest of your system. Break 9n your speakers for a couple hundred hours… listen to them, then more forward. 

@ghdprentice has a point, but it all depends on what level you’re goal is and how well you like your current speakers.  
 

When I purchased my Focal 836v speakers I was able to audition them on the Krell setup that was there for the Grande Utopia speakers. Upgrading my receiver was in the longer range plans, but when I hooked them up to my Onkyo receiver the sound was simply anemic and hollow.  It didn’t take long before I picked up an Integra 50.1 receiver that was sufficient to allow the speakers to sound good. 
 

I still have the Integra receiver, but have added a Pathos integrated for stereo and use a custom switch for them to share the speakers. 
 

If I were looking for a receiver I would be looking for one with pre-outs for the main channels so that a power amplifier or stereo integrated with a home theater bypass could be added in the future. I also would want it to be 4 ohm stable.  Receivers don’t all sound the same, but the user interface is also an important factor based on individual preference. 

Thanks for the help. It seems that three issues need to be addressed.

First, an AVR that supports a second zone of speakers (for the patio). Budget $1,200-$1,500.  Any suggestions are appreciated.

Second, recommendation for speaker upgrade from among these

Monitor Audio Silver 7G
Dali Oberon 5

Vandersteen Signature 2Ce III or 2Ce Signature II
Tekton Lore Reference with upgrades

Again, suggestions appreciated.

Third, streamer recommendation that will also access the 5,000 digitized albums in my Itunes. Thinking of subscribing to Tidal or Quobuz. Currently enjoy Sirius and Amazon.

Ideas, experiences, recommendations appreciated here, too.

Thanks again for your time.

@davedword Wrote:

First, an AVR that supports a second zone of speakers (for the patio). Budget $1,200-$1,500. Any suggestions are appreciated.

See below:

Mike

Our room is 16’ wide and 13.5’ deep, untreated, hardwood floor

Don’t buy anything until you measure and treat your room. You may like what you already have once you can hear it properly.

Get a free room analysis from Auralex or sonitus:

Qubuz better.

Dedicated streamer much better.

Topping E30 or E50 better.

Any stereo amp better.

A significant issue here is going to be your room. It’s going to be tonally bright unless you get into some room treatment, rugs, etc. Honestly you are going to be better off with speakers that control dispersion. Horns, ESL’s, and line arrays.

Better than your suggestions, given the room, Klipsch Heresy or Hsu horn loaded or Martin Logan hybrids.

- Dali - No way. They tilt the treble up, going the wrong way.

- Tekton - Well, yes but these are the wrong models. You want the tweeter array to give you a tight pattern.

- Monitor Audio and Vandersteen - Probably the best tonal balance in your room.   The MA Studio Series is also going to be stellar performers in your room.   The D'Appolito configuration will narrow the dispersion vertically, ignoring more of the floor and ceiling.

Thanks again. While I understand that room treatment would be a significant upgrade, at this time WAF doesn't allow for treatment. Also want to stay with floorstanders

I like the Cambridge CXN so much I bought a second for another system.  It works great with Qobuz.  I can’t answer the iTunes question 

If you can't treat your room stick with budget equipment and receivers with good DSP, maybe Anthem or the new Marantz/Denon.

I know you don't want to put in room treatment, but frankly, then, you are just rearranging the chairs.  Talk to your wife, look at the colors, and options, and see what is acceptable. If you want better sound, and not just to buy new equipment (which I totally understand), then you can use the money argument. Acoustic panels are cheaper.  If you want a lot of movies and television, it can significantly improve voices and understanding them. So lets assume you can put them in and look at what you would need to make a huge improvement.

Put these on your front wall behind the speakers:

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/  (they have a thinner 4" version that would work too)

You will need a couple per side of larger ones. You will be able to push the speakers even closer to the front wall, and you won’t need to move them out for better listening. You will need to rerun room correction for fix the bass response from being close to the front wall. Not pulling the speaker out and putting them back and even getting more space may help the WAF factor.

Pushing your speakers back you may be able to move seating forward a bit. That will get you away from the back wall which you seem to be sitting close to. That should be your next point of attack. Since you are close, probably some broad absorption. It is a little close to seating for a diffusion panel.

With how wide your room is, get those speakers farther apart. I would say 7 feet, maybe 7.5. More and your side reflections are going to be an issue. If you stay 4 feet, you probably don’t need to treat the side walls for reflections. Even at 7 feet, it may not be too bad. Any more than that, and your side walls are definitely an issue.

Put a nice heavy area run down in front of the speakers, preferably with a heavy underpad.

@kota1 is right. The room is what should be fixed before you fix anything else. Don’t need to go too crazy, but <$1,000 of well placed panels and then running your room correction will do more than anything else you are considering, and then when you do make other upgrades, you will be able to fully enjoy them.

@davedword Wrote:

Thanks again. While I understand that room treatment would be a significant upgrade, at this time WAF doesn't allow for treatment. 

@thespeakerdude. OP said WAF doesn't allow for room treatment.

Never understood why people feel a need to speak for others on forums, especially when my first paragraph recognizes the comment the original poster made.

I would look into upgrading the receiver and streaming source prior to replacing your speakers.  Switching to Qobuz would make for an improvement. 

Check out the threads on streamers under digital herein. 

Just a thought, have you tried using your system in a 2.1 configuration? Two channel integrated amplifiers offer far greater sonics than AVRs at the same price point and I find that 2 channel systems work well for video.  

Good luck in your endeavor.

i mostly agree with mesch--your b& w speakers are pretty good, while changing to tidal or qobuz would be a huge upgrade. as for your receiver (which looks like it does have 2-zone capability), i'm not sure changing to another avr would make a big difference--in lieu of bi-amping your fronts with the avr i'd try adding an external power amp to the avr preouts, which should be an improvement. as for a streamer, folks will recommend cambridge, bluesound, audiolab, etc., all of which should be better than your pc

I had a bad experience with Qobuz. Bad customer service, bad UI

I am not in love with your speaker choices. Did you find these used?

I like Monitor Audio but the bookshelves mostly. 

I had the b&w 686s and they were pretty amazing, a little too bright maybe. But I don't see your choices as a big step up from your B&Ws.

My suggestions as always, for speakers of my taste: Dynaudio, Totem, Revel. Good value, each!

Thanks again for the time and consideration. Looks like I'll start with a streamer and a streaming service-Tidal or Quobuz), then possibly an AVR. Down the road, perhaps, speakers.

Peace and good listening

Vandersteen

Rotel S14