Looking for an amp that punches way about its weight and I can grow with

+ 2 Odyssey ... you won't be disappointed!

+1 on the VTA Tubes4HiFi amps from Bob Latino.  Top notch performers at very competitive prices, and excellent service.  

One thing to remember regardless of the amp you buy - it is critically important for you to keep the smoke inside the unit!

Parasound A21+ , punches like Mike Tyson. 

I just purchased a pair of ESLs and an 800X sub but I don't get the push for tubes I frequently see here and elsewhere on the forum. 

A bit of background, I was a Navy tech when tubes were the primary device for amplifiers, oscillators, etc.  I went through the transition to transistors, MOSfets, integrated circuits, large scale integration, etc. to the present as an engineer.  First, tubes are highly unreliable, I replaced hundreds of them in gear built to Mil-Spec which is far higher quality than consumer electronics, second, they all add coloration to the sound so you are not getting true high fidelity because even the best do not have a flat response over the entire audio spectrum, especially when compared to modern day solid state amplifiers.  Generally there is a roll off of the high end that some people like but one shouldn't fool oneself into calling it high fidelity.  Second, the quality of tubes made today are not up to what they were when tubes were it.

As someone famous said the best amplifier is a straight wire with amplification.  Most modern class A/B and D amplifiers have a far flatter response than any tube amplifier and lower distortion.  I was involved with high end audio in Miami back in the 80s when Krell and Mark Levinson solid state amps were the rage.  As good as they were, and they were good, many class D amps built today from companies like Hypex and IcePower in the Netherlands have better performance, are far more environmentally friendly in that they are very efficient and use little wasted power in the form of heat.  Very good class D amps can be had for under $3K.  You can probably find some very good class A/B solid state amps in that price range too.

No chain is stronger than the weakest link.  Usually, that link is the speakers.  People spend in-ordinate amounts on DACs above 48KHz, speaker wires, interconnects, etc. yet the best source material is recorded at 48KHz in the studio.  Think of it like taking a picture with a 12MB camera and then trying to enlarge it to a 24MB image.  No amount of trickery will make it match a true 24MB image.  The same is true for sound.  Can you fool yourself into thinking you have a better image?  Sure, we fool our selves on lots of things all of the time.  Without a comparison the mind will fill in the blanks, but put two images of the same scene side by side, one a 12MB sensor image and the other a 24MB sensor image and the eye quickly sees the difference.  The same is true with sound and to add insult to injury, our memory of sound is simply not very good.  Allow a little time between samples and we just can't recall with sufficient detail to be certain.

Buy what makes you happy, it is your money.  :)

For "heavy lifting" I have a Perreaux 2150B. 340/680/920 wpc @8/4/2 ohms! Can typically be found for less than $1K! Certainly as good as any Krell or Levinson!

for high value very good performing solid state amps, a used ava synergy or odyssey amp is very hard to beat for performance and build quality for the money,

for a smoother more laid back sound with tremendous bass control, a w4s st series ice power unit would be excellent...

all under a grand - you have to spend 3-4x to beat them

Sub $3,000, a pair of PS Audio M700 monos

i evaluated the S300 and after burnin, found it too bright. When I called to setup the RMA, Joey said the M700s are much more tube-like and warmer. Can’t seem to paste the URL here. 

@ozzy62 
so you are saying that the Mac qweefed?

LOL, yeah that could have been it..........

moofoo+1

AVA great sound and value for the $.
Surprising it was the last mention.

If you can save just a bit you can get the excellent Coda Amplifier 
that is best in class without reservation no Amplifier I know of is even close in power supply ,dynamics and control.the Coda has a Potted sealed for low magnetic field a 3kva transformer,over 80kuf in capacitance Jfets and 40 matched  bipolar transistors on the output , and 3 choices for power output the lowest 150,300,600
1st 18 watts in pure class A ,then 2 other power options ,
10 years warranty, 5 year transferrable. And made in U.S.A
mike at Audio Archon is the guy to speak with on a deal.

not to hijack my own post, but I really like the AVA amps from what I see of them.  But I notice none have balanced inputs.  How big of a difference does balanced vs RCA make on an amp?

second, they all add coloration to the sound so you are not getting true high fidelity because even the best do not have a flat response over the entire audio spectrum, especially when compared to modern day solid state amplifiers.  Generally there is a roll off of the high end that some people like but one shouldn't fool oneself into calling it high fidelity.  Second, the quality of tubes made today are not up to what they were when tubes were it.




Tubes are actually more linear than solid state devices, try using a transistor without any negative feedback. The only reason the high end frequencies can be rolled off in some tube equipment is the output transformer. You don't have to use output transformers in tube amps.

How come no one ever talks about the old Bob Carver amps?  Like the signature series amps.  Were those junk amps?  It's hard to imagine that Bob Carver, a pioneer in amplification, always gets left out.  Thank you.

If grunt is what ye seek, Sanders, Bryston or Legacy should fit the bill. Your Freya+ is also capable of biamping. If that is an option for these speakers. 

I use Rogue ST-100 with Martin Logan Montis in my system. Preamp is Rogue RP-1. Can’t fault the ST-100. Quiet, transparent, dynamic. Have been using this amplifier for about 2 years and have no plans to switch to another amp. But keep in mind the Montis have powered woofers….

While some equipment must burn in, some burn up.

Rogue
Parasound.  
Used gear - krell- dynaco  st-70- nakamichi pa-7.  Hafler 9505

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwhSVatAMSE

I would agree with going with Rogue. If you are able, I suggest that you invest in The
M 180/150 Mono Blocks, perhaps source them in the used market to keep closer to your Budget.

I Invested in a pair of M150s in 2008, then Upgraded them to M180s in 2012. I still have them today and plan on having them. If I were to make an upgrade in an Amp it would be to the Apollos, but I can not quite seem to reasonably justify that move.

The M180 are extremely versatile. I have tube rolled to maximize the sound I am looking for. They accommodate El/34, KT66,77,88,90,120, and the signal tube combinations(NOS) are substantial. Additionally the more power you feed them the more exceptional they get. With the overall money I saved on the Rogue brand, I was able to invest in a Notable Power delivery system.   

I have put these Rogue Amps up against brands that are 100-500% more expensive, and they have always come out on top.  Consider it a long term investment in the foundation of your listening enjoyment. The Juice is worth the squeeze .

Good Luck

justinrphillips,

I have a solution for you, as I have a Pair of Oddysey Kismet, 200 Watt Mono Blocks in Kartango cases, fully built out List $5,950, will ship to you for $2,100.  They are about 3 1/2 Years old SN's in the 52xx level.

The Kismet's are the TOP of the Odyssey Line & provide truly exceptional imaging, depth, and natural soundstage.  I only replaced them with PS Audio BHK Signature 300 Mono Blocks, with slight improvement in Bass, but unfortunately, IMHO, not worth the additional cost.

Will demo them for you, if you are in my area (Near Ann Arrbor, MI).  

Review here:  https://6moons.com/audioreviews/odyssey2/1.html

My e-mail, if interested ~ [email protected]

eagleeye7 

Sunfire

I like my Carver Crimson 275 so much so that I sold off my Primaluna Dialogue HP Integrated.  The Carver Crimson even bested the PL after I upgraded the caps to VCAP and Audyn. The sound is delicious.  They are just shy of $3k, but sometimes out of stock as they are made for Carver at the Wyred4Sound factory in California.  The Carver's midrange is sublime and it can really boogie.  The top end has a good heaping dose of air and is really big sounding in my room with my system.  

The unit puts out very little heat, whereas the PL warmed the room.  You can really dial in the sound to your liking by adjusting the bias. 

I also say go with Odyssey. I've had mine for just under a year and find it has a HUGE bang per buck.

Good luck on your audio "odyssey"! (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Get you a Parasound A21+!

+1 to those who suggested Rogue. I have a Stereo 100 driven by a Rogue RP7. Amperex 7316 + Amperex Bugle Boys in the RP7, Amperex long plate 12AX7 + Mazda long plates 12AU7 in the Stereo 100. Speakers are Legacy Signature SE (4 ohm). There are times I can’t believe how good this sounds. Rich, detailed, spot on treble decay, bass for days if called for. I literally have no desire to change anything anytime soon. Of course most in this thread will suggest what they own or have had lots of experience with... guilty! I had a Parasound Hint with Tannoys before this. That was no slouch either, but holds no candle to my setup now.  I know one can get MUCH higher end amps, but I'm good for now, and indefinitely. Famous last words?

+1 Odyssey
Alon Wolf of Magico speakers likes and has used Odyssey amps.  Magico uses cutting edge technology and are among the best of the very best speakers available today.  

Unison Research Unico may fit the bill....I know where you can still get one NOS new in box, $2k...dynamic class A at first then 80 watts total. Two 12au7’s in preamp section, Italian made...a gorgeous integrated amp. 6 moon wrote up a great review on it, and it was chosen product of the year....its now 20 years old, but I’d take a chance with it with a good warranty....it preceded the Unico Primo....

Hi, Justin (OP) and all, 

Subject to... your system, ears, preferences, etc. 

I have had great results with Odyssey (Kismet mono's in the Khartago cases). 

I don't have Martin-logans but have run the Kismets through my various systems that include B&W, KEF. Gallo and Quad ESL speakers, variously and comparatively driven by Levinson monos, Peachtree and Pathos integrateds, Kenwood LO-5 MII monoblocks (total sleepers, still good to this day, also very fast, well damped, etc.). 

The Odysseys are perfectly stable into low impedance loads, very fast (slew rate?), good control (damping without overcontrol), etc., = reliably great sound.

Another benefit of working with Klaus & Co. at Odyssey is that you can pick & choose / customize many aspects as well as upgrade later. 

A good example of which is setting the bias (Class A vs A/B). From the website: 
"All amplifiers: Custom bias for your system prior to purchase. The customer has to provide system information to check feasibility. Free of charge." Nice. Might make sense for your Martin logans. 

It is a smaller family owned business and the ability to speak with the CEO/designer, customize your amps, etc. means that it can take a bit longer than walking into a dealer (support your local dealer, too!) and taking it home that day. Well worth the extra time, "patience is a virtue", at least sometimes.

Lots of great gear out there. Enjoy the hunt... 

Ken

If you can find a better value than an odyssey kismet... I’d be shocked and would love to hear it. Extraordinary sounds at a ordinary price.  And customer service to match any in the industry. 

If you can wait a couple of months and flex your budget to $5100, get the new Atma-Sphere Class D mono blocks.

Hi
Don Sachs here.  Someone posted above that they have my version of the Bob Latino kit.  Ummmmmmmm, no.   There is not really anything in common between the Latino kits and my amp.  The kits are great bang for the buck.  About all they have in common with mine is that they are both KT88 push pull amps.  Mine is built cost no object.  It has epoxy potted toroid power and output transformers, fully independent REGULATED high voltage supplies for each channel, VCap ODAM coupling caps, premium wire and resistors, fully auto biasing, etc....   The Latino kits are great value and great amps, but mine really has nothing in common.  Well maybe his also has an octal front end with long-tailed pair, but mine has a CCS tail.  I mean really, they are completely different amps and priced accordingly.  I know which one I would prefer to listen to:)   

Don your gear is beautiful!   It is a tiny bit out of my price range right now but I do enjoy looking at your gear.

Think I have decided on they Odyssey Kinsmet monos.  @eagleeye7 I will reach out to you on what you have for sale shortly.  Too much positive Odyssey feedback to not try it out. 

Crown or Parasound

Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition

actually bested Luxman, Pass, and Rowland on hard to drive speakers in my room.

Used Mark Levinson no 333 or 336. No flames, finesse and power, reliable…had mine 25 years.

I will probably get flamed but I couldn't be happier with my Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 3 - though I wouldv'e gone for the monoblocks they make had I had the budget. 

I am moving from XPA's it is just not the sound I am looking for

As has been mentioned by several others, Bryston is an amp that punches above its weight (however it is heavy).  Either the Bryston 14b3 at 600wpc or the 4b3 at 300wpc are wonderful units...and with the very best warranty in the business.  Their US repair center, should you ever need it, is also excellent.

I have been driving my Martin Logan QuestZ's since they were new with an Audio Research LS22 and a pair of Audio Research Classic 150's which I have also had since new. The Classic 150's can drive any impedance down to 1 ohm.I have owned Martin Logan speakers since 1985 or so and to date I haven't found another amp of any kind that can reproduce deep bass and such a wonderful sound stage as the Audio Research. The proper tubes in both unit are essential. 
The older Audio Research gear is now quite a bargain and if properly maintained will last for a very long time.

I personally feel that tube amplifiers are generally the wrong call for ML electrostatics (there may be some exceptions).  I had Mac monos and they sounded terrible.  The panels are mostly capacitive and may fall at or below 1 ohm impedance at 20 kHz.  I personally use Pass amplification to great success, but as stated you may find it difficult to find in your price range.  I also like Parasound and have some experience with them.  Odyssey looks like a good option.  The deal from eagleeye7 seems to fit your needs nicely.  Please let us know if it works out for you.

I doubt this can be found but if you can indeed find a second hand Pass Labs integrated for around your budget, nothing else will even come close.

Parasound Hint, Hegel H190… both excellent and in your price range. There is a Pass Labs Int 30a listed on USAM right now (no affiliation) that would be a great start, just a bit over budget on their asking… the Pass is a bare bones Integrated, but an excellent start. The previous two mentioned are excellent as well and have modern features that will save space and $$ in the long run…

Actually, I have the Pass INT-150, and it was pre-owned right at $3k.  Just not something you see for sale every day.  Does work perfect with my ML Montis.

Pass is an excellent suggestion. You could speak with Nelson about the match and be assured of an honest and completely informed answer. For used and demo talk with Mark at Reno HiFi, I think he is in the middle of a move right now but he is a genuinely solid citizen of the earth and I do not affix that term lightly.