LinLai WE 300B or the LinLai Global Elite Permaloy 300B tubes ?

The tube VIP program is in fact Grant Fidelity, the website named Premium Vacuum Tubes. Wonder how long club has been in existence? $30-$40 year membership.

Forgot to add, I believe I read somewhere Linlai WE300B is exact same as Psvane WE300B. Based on that, and their marketing, I'd expect the Elite to be the better tube.

At this point, the Linlai Elite and EML XLS 300b's are my two top contenders to replace the Shuguang Black Bottle Treasures in my 300B monoblocks. By the way, the Shuguangs are very nice tubes, reliable, rugged and sound quality no complaints. Supposedly in modern sound camp, they do expose even very minute changes in my system, so I'd describe them as very nicely resolving and transparent.  Really don't feel the need to change them out, simply curious as to any sq improvements.

The Elrog 300B would be at the top of my list if not for reliability issues, I think they're on at least 3rd iteration of this tube. Haven't heard about reliability of latest iteration, don't mean to hijack thread, but I'd be interested in hearing others experience with latest iteration.

I'm interested as well. I presently have Linlai Elite 101D mesh plate and Psvane WE101D for use in my Coincident Statement pre. Linlai build quality appears better than Psvane, thicker glass, interior build looks more substantial, much greater weight.

Sound quality somewhat of a toss up. Linlai a bit more warm, inviting, analog sounding in my system, Psvane somewhat lightweight sounding, more emphasis on upper mids, still airier sound is enticing.
I suspect Linlai may soon displace Psvane as premier Chinese tube manufacturer. It seems former head engineer and other critical team members left Psvane to start up Linlai. Read about this at 6moons.

Liquidsound, great, I'll be looking forward to your impressions. What club are you talking about?

I did just go over to Linlai US website, it does appear they only ship gobal spec tubes here.

Charles1dad, Joel's 6moon review of Linlai Elite Mesh was polar opposite of what I hear, he claims it sounds bright, no way in my setup. Israel at Coincident also mentioned to me he dislikes any mesh plate tube, claims of high frequency anomalies. I've also had no problems with microphonic from the mesh plates. Joel much preferred the solid plate Linlai Elite, I intend trying that one as well. By the way, Rachel at Grant Audio was the person who recommended the mesh plate to me.
Liquidsound, I'll take a look. I do wonder if Linlai is sending you US spec tubes if shipping directly from China. According to 6moons, Linlai manufactures or sends (questionable they would set up separate runs of tubes for different markets) only it's best quality tubes to US, lower quality sold only in domestic market/Asia. I think I recall it being mentioned in article large quantity orders from North America ensures one gets US quality tubes, perhaps that isn't exactly correct as the article was also tie in to Rachel and Grant Audio. Perhaps marketing hype? I presume US purchasers from Linlai direct would get the US spec. tubes.

Seems like HR's preference for WE based as much on warranty as sq. I believe the Cossor brand LinLai are Asian market only tubes, certainly not the same as Elite or perhaps even their lower level North America exports.

As for warranties, assuming we need to use, the WE or EML are way to go. Based on sq AND warranty the choice becomes more difficult, if warranty issues never become factor then go with best sq. But then we have to take in account that warranty length likely correlates with tube life, you may have to replace tubes with lesser warranty two, even three times in the five year warranty period of WE tubes. And to make it even more complex, lets say Western Electric tubes don't suffer failure over five year period, but they measure only 70% or some lesser amount of new a year or two down the road, which means we're using a tube not operating at peak for whatever warranty time remaining. I'd like to see tube measurements correlated with operating time, but then different equipment may affect tube life differently. So now I'm really confused!

Above presumes warranties only cover failure of tube, don't cover accelerated wear.

I've not been able to move past present Shuguang black treasures as PT in 300b mono blocks or as drivers in Coincident Turbo 845 because of warranty and durability questions. The Shuguangs expose every upgrade I've ever made in system, seem to be a decently high resolution tube. They're rugged, no failures ever over many years now, whats not to like.

Based on reviews and my experience upgrading various other signal and power tubes over the years I presume some of the tubes we're talking about would be an upgrade. Again, the EML and WE tubes seem to be the most durable, therefore, safest bet. LinLai Elite could be new top contender, I'd not expect any greater durability than Psvane. Recently I've been close to pulling trigger on EML, Charles, I know you've used the Shuguang in past, how would you compare it to EML? I'd expect higher resolution with the same modern sound as Shuguang. I'd hope for just a bit more romance, bloom in mids while keeping relatively tight bottom end. In fact, this is the exact sound qualities I'm looking for in any of the 300B's.
Does anyone else out there have direct experience comparing Shuguang Black Treasure to any of the other 300b tubes? As stated above, seeking a bit more mid range magic together with tight bottom end, wanting to stay in modern sound camp with just a bit more bloom and resolution.

In watching many threads and forums over the years the only 300B tubes that don't seem to have durability issues are the EML, WE and Shuguang Black Treasure. Don't recall ever seeing a single failure of any. I'd say Psvane has a pretty good track record, heard about a few failures, all in early hours. In that case I'd suggest Psvane reliability is subject to tube retailer. I'd expect LinLai to be similar to Psvane. The rest seem pretty close in reliability. I'd like to see new Elrog durability proven.

As to my own experience over about twenty years with wide variety of tubes, signal, rectifier and power, the only failures I've experienced were KR and Fullmusic 845 tubes, Chinese with exception of Fullmusic, and NOS tubes from all over have been just fine.

Thank you to Charles and other's input. And Charles, thanks for more in depth impressions of EML.

I don't want to hijack thread, but for Charles, and anyone else using Coincident Statement pre. I got the MK II upgrade along with further upgrade of Amtrans rotary selector, well worth it!

Reliability and durability are an important consideration in my tube purchases. At this point EML front runner, Liquidsound's review of LinLai will have major bearing on ultimate choice. As he previously mentioned, and I experienced with LInLai 101 tube, build quality appears to be superior to Psvane, does this result in greater reliability, durability than Psvane? And then sound qualities matter a great deal.

MkII standard upgrade includes Nichicon Muse cap replacement of stock Rubycons in mine, volume transformer upgrades and rotary selector, yes volume selector upgrade. Above and beyond, I custom ordered Amtrans volume selectors, far superior to the standard upgrade volume selector. I know because I was going to diy the volume selectors, standard volume control upgrade still pretty cheapo Chinese part, Amtrans is jeweler standard build quality, unmatched precision (Chinese $6 each, Amtrans $108 each). Result of upgrades is bit more natural timbre (NIchicon vs Rubycon) and sound stage precision the MkI can't quite reach, solidity and depth of center stage so much improved, result more dimensional imaging.

Certainly, Mki version doesn't have problem with timbre, its just that with Nichicon Muse vs. Rubycon just a bit more, when you hear you'll know. The greatest upgrade is the more precise sound staging, imaging. Can't recall if he or I brought up the Amtrans, I had seen them at Partsonnexion, and having seen the stock cheap Chinese volume selector in mine up close and personal I did speak to this directly. He responded the Amtrans would be big upgrade, I didn't even care to ask him about nature of upgrade, or any of MkII upgrades in order to mitigate expectation bias. Anyway I ended up purchasing Amtrans through Israel. I will say the upgraded volume transformers are what you're spending your money on here, I imagine Amtrans add precison to some degree. The cheapo Chinese selectors are real junk plastic and metal, Amtrans precision parts! Once you touch and see them you don't want anything less.
I believe the only place you can get Cossor versions of LinLai is ebay, they aren't intended for US market, not sold at LinLai factory official US website. Which means they are lesser quality if what LinLai themselves claim, which is they only send their best tubes to North America, all marked only as LinLai, no Cossor.

Two caps in PS, two in signal chassis. As for improved timbre, I'd suggest some or most of that improvement comes from both volume transformers and Amtrans volume selector, although having used Muse caps in prior mods in other equipment I can assure they are a very natural sounding electrolytic cap. Both VS and VT in signal path, have bearing on timbre or coloration of the entire pre. I'd also suggest the Amtrans is superior here to cheap Chinese upgrade (stock Chinese volume selector even cheaper than upgrade) unit here, much better metallurgy and no dialectic. Amtrans precise volume tracking is likely responsible for much of the improved sound staging and imaging I'm hearing, doubt the Chinese unit can replicate this. I did mention this particular aspect of improved performance to Israel, he concurred, much of this improvement due to Amtrans.

Charles,I originally was going to diy the Amtrans, wiring of MKI volume transformer different than MKII, so not so straightforward. Israel did send me wiring illustration for Amtrans to MkI trans. Ultimately decided I wanted the upgraded transformers, so sent to Israel.

The proper Amtrans are the single gang switches at Partsconnexion, the other they show is stereo switch. I can't give you any info about the transformers, I'd have to tear apart quite a bit to possibly get part number and manufacturer, may be proprietary part as well. If you decide to not diy, perhaps you could send control chassis only, save some shipping cost.

As for going off topic, yes, sorry, The problem is Audiogon no longer allows private email.

Appreciate the review. Funny, but I could almost repeat word for word my impressions of LinLai Elite mesh plate 101d. Could it be there is a 'house' sound for LinLai Elite.

I'm now much closer to pulling the trigger on Elite 300, the only remaining question, what about durability? It would be nice if LinLai as a new player in high end tube market offered a two year warranty. I can only offer my Linlai 101 has well over 500 hours, so far so good, just had them tested the other day. For what its worth, I periodically have all my various output tubes tested (three different amps and two preamp). Pays off not having failure that may take out various components. I can say all the Shuguang, Psvane and this single Linlai have always checked out, no failures.

Yep, that's the tube tester used by my source.

It appears Psvane has new Acme 300B tube out, looks like punched plate vs solid plate for other Acme, priced about $200 more than original Acme. Can't find much info out there about this tube, anyone heard it or have more info?
@liquidsound, any further developments on LinLai tubes? I'm getting very close to pulling trigger on 300B purchase. Coming down to EML XLS, Linlai Elite or one of the Acme iterations.

@liquidsound, hopefully you have full recovery. Covid is real and needs to be taken seriously.
Recently discovered thread over at whats best forum mostly in regard to Psvane Acme series of tubes, some recent posts popping up about LinLai Elite series. http://https//www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/psvane-acme-series-new-flagship-series.26395/ 
This makes me leery about purchase of Psvane Acme 300B, even though I've never had an issue with various Psvane series of 845 tubes in two amps. Does this portend issues with LInLai as some Psvane engineers/principals moved from Psvane to LInLai? And its not just the Chinese tubes with issues, I've read plenty of durability issues with tubes from various countries/manufacturers. The EML XLS looks more and more like my 300B choice.
My consistent and long term observations of modern tube failures is extremely troubling. It seems the tube industry and amp industry are not settled on some set of standardization. Tube manufacturers blame amp manufacturers for running tubes too hard, exceeding maximum dissipation rates. But then I've seen voltage measurements that show amps with tube failures are running within safe dissipation voltages.
And then, why don't I recall seeing a single EML XLS 300B failure? I don't spend my hard earned money on the lottery, tubes seem much like lottery. I understand tube manufacturers not wanting to warranty their tubes for longer periods as no assurance all amp manufacturers design with proper dissipation specs, and/or possible amps going out of spec over time. But I would like to see tube manufacturers add a conditional period of warranty past standard warranty. If tube fails during conditional period, amp could be taken to agreed upon tech and measured for dissipation voltage, if within spec tube manufacturer honors warranty. In thread I linked to above, some Acme tubes are red plating when run within dissipation specs, Psvane claims this is normal. I find this highly problematic!

@charles1dad , Yeah, Israel trashed my Linlai 101, he seemed to not know of them when I initially spoke to him, only added he doesn't like mesh plate tubes. He also told me my particular pair were bad, I had them tested on Amplitrex tester after getting back linestage from him, they were in fact not bad. Israel telling stories, likely including mine as failed pair. And yeah, I'd agree the Psvane WE are plenty good, Linlai is just another flavor, I go back and forth.

Power tubes for amps seem to be the vast majority of tube reliability issues. I've been running tube amps and preamps since around 2000, only tube failures I've experienced were KR845 and TJ Fullmusic 845 in Art Audio amp. Not worried so much about pre tubes or drivers in amps.

@antigrunge, you're not complicating it at all, sound quality of these tubes has to always be taken in context of entire system. What may sound great in one system may not in another. Even with the reliability factor, context matters, one amp may run tube much harder than another. In post I linked to, most of the amps with tube failures were Line Magnetic. Does Line Magnetic run the tubes harder than others? This is the reason I can't seem to move on 300B tube, reports of reliability and sound quality may or may not apply to my setup. I just know the decision close at hand, heard my Shuguang black treasure with so many variables and evolving system resolution, they are somewhat lacking in natural timbre, everything else really pretty good.