life without audio dealers

'will admit that I have done the borrow "product" from my local hifi shop just to purchase it cheaper online, and I would probably do it again. No reason to pay retail plus tax when you can purchase at a fraction of retail, right?'

followed by....

'this would require people to open their homes to others'

Ben, you don't have any concerns about ripping off the dealers' time and resources; you think i'm gonna invite you into my house??? To extend your reasoning, why pay retail when you can just steal it? LOL

Seriously though, dealers are still relevant for many, i believe. Keep in mind that the opinions expressed in these forums are typically those of experienced, internet savvy 'philes with years of involvement in higher fi. I believe we represent a very tiny minority of those interested in good sound. It certainly isn't helpful to the cause of failing dealer support that there are too many dealers out there who have alienated the audiophile, myself included. i honestly can't remember the last time i had anything but a disasterous experience at a hifi shop. Some of them just don't seem to get it, even while they watch their customer base shrink and shrink and shrink some more.That said, we all know that there are some great dealers out there that earn their business by providing invaluable services to us and to those who may want great sound but don't have the time or interest to turn it into an obsession, like some of us do. Not all 'philes or potential 'philes have the time or energy to devote the time required to build a great system, and there is way too much gear out there that just isn't worth anywhere near the asking price. A very good dealer can be an enormous benefit guiding a customer. In the end, audio stores can survive if they offer a good service to consumers in a value sense and as specialists with superior product knowledge and customer support. Unless of course, Ben and his type take advantage of their honest efforts to provide a good customer experience and they throw their hands up in futility. Honestly Ben, what you're doing is not cool, ok?

'you don't have to be a food critic, movie critic or wine critic, for example, to be able to tell that you like something. noone can tell another what is best for that person, with the exception of a doctor or lawyer. we are dealing with aesthetics, not rocket science.'

Personally, i agree with this statement by mrtennis. However, i have recently come to understand and believe there is a group of audiophiles who subscribe to the A. Holt theory that an 'absolute sound' is the standard equipment should aspire to, a sound that comes as close as possible to live music. This belief is the fundamental behind such absolute statements like, 'This is the best amp (speaker, CDP, etc) under $2000.' or (opens can of worms)' Analog is superior to Digital'. Indeed, until i discovered these absolutists, as i like to call them, i could never understand what drove someone to make what appeared to me, such an arrogant statement. I now believe that audiophiles are divided into two groups, the subjectivists and the absolutists. Unfortunately, every single dealer in my area falls into the absolutist camp; thereby rendering what i like or don't like secondary to their 'more expert' opinion on what sounds best. Of course, as a subjectivist, this bewilders me and makes that dealer of no use to me. Worse, it's actually torture listening to them pontificate on the various attributes of all equipment ever manufactured. i now stay far away from these audio shops.

But back to mrtennis for a second. As a reviewer, i wonder, how does he recommend a component for sound quaility, percieved by him subjectively, if he believes this:

'no one can predict what a component will do in another stereo system based upon what it may do at a dealers stereo system'

he should have added 'or at a reviewers home' to that statement i think.

There are lots of good reviewers around; I like Art Dudley a lot personally. But i would personally feel a lot more comfortable listening to a component at a dealer (or anywhere for that matter) than taking a reviewers opinion as a worthy substitute for my own ears, no offense to reiewers intended.

and again, by Mrtennis:

'an audio dealer is a conflict of interest waiting to happen.'

Harsh mrtennis, and not nessessarily accurate. A very good dealer can provide a very valuable service, possibly even commesurate to the profit margins from the 70's perpetuated still as representing good value. In order to do that, they must abandon this 'do as i say' mentality (absolutist) and adopt a relationship with the consumer that underpins a more subjective approach. But then again, the dealer is working with the vagaries and insecurites of obsessed audiophiles; he can't switch out amps and speakers all day long in what is almost always a hopeless attempt to provide a long term satisfied listener. Maybe you're right, it's useless! Just imagine a conversation like this: Phone rings, dealer answers: 'Hello mr dealer, listen, that amp you sold me last week, i was listening to this diana krall recording, and on track 6 there was some sibilance, an 's' sounded like 'sss'; it was unlistenable! Can i bring this rotten amp back and try something else?'' Maybe dealers deserve that high profit margin, having to deal with the likes of us!